Questions regarding the LOO, STS and Religions

[Shemaya]

Hi Shemaya! Welcome to Bring4th!

Thx!

I feel that the STS disconnect themselves from Source/Creator and that is how they are able to do horrendous things, because they are disconnected...their hearts are not open to connect with all that is. Doesn't Ra say something about this? I have to look that one up!!!

My understanding is that they think they are disconnected, even though they really aren't, since All is One. So the mechanism for making the switch in 6D is realizing that they can't progress any further, and that they are in fact connected and have been serving the Creator all along.

Thank you, Monica, for clarifying. I am looking into the LOO because it is an area that I'm somewhat confused about. I do understand your point that none of us is ever really disconnected.

It's an interesting way of looking at it, and if accepted as true calls for release of all judgment that we have of STS entities. Which is not easy when you look at the unnecessary suffering happening because of the greed and deeds of the negative polarizing brothers and sisters.

[Monica]

i think they couldnt be able to manifest proper love, or any higher vibration while being immersed in a religion like christianity or other middle eastern ones. they have rigid rules, they discriminate, they contain punishment and many more.

for a person to manifest proper love or any higher frequency, (in positive sense), they would need to ignore a majority of the aforementioned religions' rules and orders. that would in the end, basically make them someone who is not in that religion.

I was about to disagree vehemently, but then read the 2nd part of your post, and thought about that.

I thought back to when I left Caholicism for 'born-again' Christianity. I definitely had a spiritual experience, and started feeling more compassion for people than I ever did as a Catholic. But, upon reflection, I remember that I was told I was supposed to feel compassion.

At the time, I took that at face value. It was refreshing to me, after many years of being taught about the 'punishment' ie hell thing, to focus on love and feeling compassion for others. Was my compassion genuine? Or was I trying to help people because I was told I was 'supposed' to do that?

Thinking back, I would have to say honestly, that I did what I was told to do, because it was the 'right' thing to do. Hence, my actions were actually selfish, because I wanted to 'gain favor with God.'

However, as time went on, I began to become disillusioned with my religion. I had thought I had escaped focus on fire and brimstone, but I was wrong. Instead of only Catholics going to 'heaven' I was told that only those who professed salvation in Jesus would go to 'heaven.' I realized that I had traded 1 fear-based dogma for another, but this one was light and fluffy.

Does that make my initial spiritual experience any less valid? No. The transformational experience I had as a born-again Christian was very real and very valid to me, and I still treasure it. It is part of who I am. Would I have learned compassion on my own without being told by an authority that I needed to have compassion? I believe yes, I would have learned it some other way. Maybe I would have discovered some other religion. Or maybe I would have just learned it from everyday catalyst.

I think I was ready to learn what that religion had to teach, so I was attracted to it. For awhile. But then I moved on.

So, in response to your comment: I definitely know people who have a beautiful, openness of heart, while in organized religions, whom I believe are absolutely genuine. I don't just believe it's possible; I know it's possible because these are people I know personally. Their hearts are pure. They radiate love!

We can only speculate as to how much the religion had to do with that. I contend that religion has no more to do with it than other catalyst. The reason I say this is that I also know other people who are every bit as loving, who have no religion!

And of course we all know religious people who aren't loving! This is why I really think the heart radiating love has more to do with the human spirit than it does with the style of catalyst itself. I see the religious structure as another layer of catalyst, another brick in the wall of illusion that makes up our present reality. We attract those circumstances we need for our unfoldment. In my case, I discovered born-again Christianity because, at that time in my life, I was ready for the type of experience it offered.

But, on to part 2 of your comment: I have to admit that these people have chosen to focus on what I consider the genuine teachings of Jesus: that of love, forgiveness, and compassion. They have chosen to ignore the harsher tenets of their religion. Another factor is that some denominations focus more on the love, while others focus on 'getting saved' (ie. getting their ticket to heaven), and still others focus more on the harsher 'hell' doctrine. It varies widely within the Christian faith. Just look at how many denominations there are!

Can a person radiate pure love while immersed in a conventional religion? I say: A resounding YES!

However, in order to do that, would the person likely have to ignore the harsher tenets of the religion? Again I'd have to say YES. I don't see how someone could genuinely love another person and, at the same time, be willing to accept that the person would be condemned to eternal suffering just for believing a different way.

But who among us has perfect, undistorted love? The harsher tenets of religions are distortions. I agree that such harsh tenets as the concepts of punishment and eternal damnation are absolutely negative and will inevitably be shed as the person evolves.

I recently met a woman very steeped in mainstream religion. Shortly after I met her, she shared with me how she felt guilty for questioning certain passages in the Bible. She couldn't understand how 'God' could be so cruel! I very gently suggested to her that maybe those were just words written by humans, based on their perceptions of God, rather than absolute 'Truth' written by God. I actually hesitated before telling her this, because I didn't want to impose on her process. But she is the one who asked me, so I responded to her questions. She felt so relieved! She hugged me and thanked me for helping her to see that such ideas weren't heretical. It was such a challenge for her, to let go of what she had been taught! But the love she radiated was beautiful! She let go of her conditionings, BECAUSE OF the love that was stirring in her heart! Just as a child outgrows a pair of shoes, she outgrew the tenets of her religion that no longer served her.

Is she still a Christian? Yes. I would not presume to tell her to stay or leave her religion. That is something she will have to decide for herself. But the process of questioning has begun! She will never go back to blind acceptance!

Last I heard, she was very focused on the love aspect of her religion, and going thru a 'cleaning house' process of eliminating the tenets that no longer worked for her. Perhaps one day she will leave it altogether, or perhaps she will treasure the gems while being liberated from the shackles.

She didn't have to leave her religion totally in order to find love. But finding love forced the harsher tenets of her religion to be eliminated. They couldn't coexist.

I propose that, rather than necessarily casting aside religion in order to open the heart to love, people will naturally open their hearts, over time as they evolve, whether or not they have religion, and as that happens, they begin to understand the deeper, mystical aspects of their religion (which are often not taught by their religious 'authorities'), and aspects of religion not compatible with love are naturally cast aside.

So, in conclusion, at first glance I very strongly disagreed with your statement, but upon reflection, I realized that there is truth to the point that the person would have to ignore a lot of their religion's tenets. Case in point: I know very few Christians who follow the rules of the old testament literally. So the mainstream version of the religion has already shed a lot of the harsher tenets. Same with Islam. Those who follow the violent aspects are considered radical, not mainstream. And yet there is still a lot in the mainstream religions that is negative, such as reliance upon 'authorities' to dictate what to believe, an inherent elitist message of some people being 'chosen' over others, the supremacy of their religion over others, etc. Some of these tenets are woven so intricately into the fabric of the religion that to question them equates to heresy in the minds of the religious adherents. The road is yet long ahead before these inherent STS aspects are eliminated from the mainstream versions of the popular religions.

Religions evolve. Right now, the mainstream versions seem to be polarizing. On the one hand, we see an increase in radical versions (of Christianity too, not just Islam) while on the other hand, we see more loving versions like Universalist Christianity gaining popularity.

Perhaps when the aliens land, the mainstream religions will lose their monopoly on spirituality. But there will always be the radical ones who say the aliens are just satan masquerading. Religions exist because they are a reflection of what humans choose to believe.

Now, the question then becomes: If the person has shed the harsher tenets of their religion, are they still immersed in their religion?

That is a very subjective question and dependent upon semantics once again.

Case in point: I have a friend who is a Christian Universalist. I consider him to be one of the top people on the planet who understands the Law of One.

Yet, he has never read the Law of One.

But he understands it and, more importantly, lives it.

He's never heard of Ra. He doesn't believe in reincarnation. What's more, he believes the Bible is the 'word of God.' Although, he acknowledges that it was written by humans, and is therefore flawed in the sense that it offers their limited perception of God.

I marveled at how this young man (for he is only in his early 20s) could be so wise. He is probably in the top 10 people I respect the most in the world. And yet, he is most definitely 'immersed' in his religion.

How can this be?

Well, my observation is that he uses his Bible the same way we might use a Tarot deck or astrology. The Bible is alive to him. It is an oracle. It reflect his inner seeking.

He sees the violence in the old testament but believes the authors misrepresented what really happened. He doesn't offer the lame excuse commonly offered, ie. that "we can't question God" but instead acknowledges that those actions were ugly and awful. Most importantly, he does not accept that God would be so cruel as to 'punish' forever the souls he created. And, he believes that all souls will eventually be 'redeemed' contrary to the fashionable tenet that the majority of the population will be condemned to eternal torment.

But it's not his beliefs I admire. I admire his love, compassion, forgiveness and wisdom.

Many of his Christian friends consider him a heretic! Some even think he's dangerous.

I find conversation with this young man very fascinating. I marvel at how he has managed to find the love in an ancient book that, at first glance, is filled with distortion.

I contend that it is to his credit, not the book's. His choice to polarize has prevailed, despite the seeming limitations of his chosen religion. He has transcended those limitations.

Note: Post has been edited.

[Monica]

Not only did the buddha after he awoke in Siddhārtha Gautama began teaching people and to give sermons. He continued to do this in many incarnations. Buddha is not a person. Buddha is a state of being, just like Christ. Just like 4th density. Jesus is not christ. Jesus became christ in the desert.

I understand. This is a key tenet of most New Age-based interpretations of these avatars. What do you think this means in Law of One terms?

For an entity to be Christ or Buddha, does that mean s/he is an adept? Has all chakras open? Or has just penetrated the veil and is dwelling in 4D...or...what?

He went to teach shortly after that. Jesus knew his death was required to get the message out. He was a 4d entity. He was actually killed not for being Jesus an innocent lamb, obviously not. He was dragging people away from the traditional religion. Which he clearly did not kill.

Was he dragging them from the religious customs of the day, or from reliance on rigid dogma?

I think it's the latter. Which is why I think it's tragic that followers ended up perpetuating more dogma.

Judaism is alive and well today in many many different forms. Including my personal favourites the Rastafarians.

Wow, I am feeling very sheepish to admit this, but I didn't know Rastafarianism was a form of Judaism! :-/

Christianity is the adopting of christ consciousness. It is the core that was heavily distorted over the years mostly due to extreme politics. But inside cloisters and monasteries the christ consciousness was passed on. Many reached sainthood. Even today this happens. But not everywhere. The vatican was probably one of the first places where the flame died to succumb to politics.

I think you guys see religion as merely a structure in spite of which enlightenment is a possibility.

I see religion as being very complex and containing all the attributes described by you, me, unity100, and everyone else who has participated in this thread. It all depends on which aspect you choose to focus on, for the sake of conversation.

I see it as a lineage of consciousness.

Hmmm...interesting. Do you mean as in, 1 person passing on, or awakening, consciousness in another?

Just like every religion I studied so far turned out to be. These things are alive. They will set you on fire if you let them. And you don't even have to become a member to have that happen. It's factual, I've had spiritual experiences in different religious surroundings. And I witnessed the people with me experience the same.

I have as well. I've also had spiritual experiences, and witnessed spiritual experiences, outside religion, and even as a result of leaving organized religion behind. It can work either way.

I do agree that a religion can have a group consciousness aspect (if I'm understanding you correctly). I've long thought that those of a certain religion share a group consciousness. This is based on many observations of otherwise unexplainable phenomena.

You don't need to be in a religion to ignite yourself.. Certainly not these days. But it is a possibility and I am a product.

Agreed!

Everyone used to use this technique, all religions have this sense of spiritual heritage. Keeping the flame alive and passing her down through history. People these days accept it with ease from pagan religions, from buddhism, hinduism, practically all occult traditions. But christianity for unclear reasons is different, it is just an empty shell of rules and has nothing to do with these teachings... This is true even to many followers. We cannot imagine our parents and grandparents and uncle bob to be members of an initiatory tradition. But they are if we look at the evidence.

Well, if mainstream Christianity has lost its heritage, it's because its religious leaders chose to eliminate it in favor of promoting superficial teachings. The older religions like Catholicism still have that heritage, to some degree. But I was brought up Catholic and no one ever taught me the mystical teachings of the rituals I participated in twice a week. (And I even attended Catholic school for 6 years!) So although it's there, the 'heritage' didn't do me any good!

A popular current trend focuses on nothing more than mere belief. Even acts of love and compassion have been downplayed in favor of just proselytizing to others, to get their ticket. Nothing more than mere belief is needed. Anyone believing differently is deemed 'satanic.' This particular flavor of Christianity, in my opinion, is so highly distorted that I've wondered what their ratio of STS graduates is!

I do see a lot of the heritage you describe in Catholicism. I have memories of reverence mixed in with the fear of hell, from my childhood.

Then there are the Gnostic Christians. They most definitely have retained their heritage. So I can see what you are referring to, in these flavors of Christianity.

Not only does the church use the exact same form of rituals in their own initiations. They follow the exact same structure as any other tradition. I could walk you through the cathedrals here in europe and point out the occult meanings. If you are like most you don't see it until it's explained that's why it's called occultism.

Yes, I've been to some of those cathedrals! They do contain mystic symbolism and even energy vortexes. I had a spontaneous initiatory experience when I walk the path of the ruins at Glastonbury Abbey. This experience was every bit as powerful as the one I had atop Glastonbury Tor, or amongst the standing stones at Callanish, both decidedly Pagan 'sacred sites.'

The papal line is a line of initiation, just like the pharaoic tradition every next pope was given the "papal-consciousness" whatever they call it by the previous one..

Ali, I've been enjoying your thoughts...but I may have to part ways here. I agree that the position of pope is a succession but I'm not so sure it's an initiation, or at least not of the STO variety. The pope is the leader of a vast empire, just as any political leader.

Signified by the transfer of a hat buddhism does it the same way. Obviously for them the flame got extinct along the way and people failed to notice. But at the same time there are people inside the church, young people old people who just like you and me here are trying to find the right path to achieve this 4d consciousness that they call communion, and in their world 2012 is called rapture, the returning of christ, the MASSIVE returning of christ consciousness!

Very true! The Truth is to be found everywhere, albeit with distortion. And people are awakening in churches, as well as without the aid of churches.

I cannot look at these similarities and then claim that they are somehow different. I know that most of what passes for "those big three" these days is rubble and ruins compared to what it still is in some places. Most religions really are no different. And in part this is good, this is the time of loss of structure. These structures are not required for people to reach enlightenment any more.. Some claim they once used to be, that may be true, but they clearly are not now. And we should form a new relationship to them. A more empowering one.

When I was 16 I had access to world wide communication for the first time... My first fidonet found buddy was a Singapore boy my age. He expressed his utter amazement for the compassion and love of Christianity. His buddhist parents would never be this enlightened... Of course we here think the exact opposite is true! I learned that the religion is always better on the other side of the globe.

Haha, I guess it just depends on whom you talk to! Or which books you read...

It may sound terrible that the Law of One may one day become a religion. But be honest, it is as important to you as a religion could be. It is to me. The Law of One taught me extremely much. I would not be at the level I am today without it.

I consider the Law of One my spiritual path, to be sure. I personally prefer to distinguish it from religion. (But that gets into our preferred semantics again.)

Take religion from it's base as infallible, see it as a flawed human institution built around the initiatory transfer of knowledge and consciousness. And you're just about spot on. Good and bad things happen there.

I would agree with that, with the addition of the STS influences as well.

Just as many polarize STO via the vehicle of religion, so too do others polarize STS via the vehicle of religion. Religion is an equal-opportunity polarizer.

Absolute sweeping generalizations really never do justice to reality. I acknowledge your feelings that religion in many places has become empty, and restrictive, sometimes even evil. Please acknowledge mine that there are also still places where christ consciousness is alive. That's obviously the part I care about, the structure and empty rules can collapse for all I care.

Absolutely!!!

I met this woman, a catholic school teacher, exactly like you'd expect from the description. But her aura is shouting priestess. And she's demonstrating priestess qualities. She's no less than any of us. She knows christ I am absolutely convinced of this. And after she went for a few days with her group and I saw her again her consciousness had actually expanded and slowly went back to normal a week after. That's the same pattern I've seen in every religion including Sufism, my own.

I know exactly what you are referring to! I have met people exactly like that! A former co-worker comes to mind. She was a Charismatic Christian. She used to pray with me in the bathroom during our work breaks. She absolutely glowed with joy, love and compassion! And when she laid hands on me in prayer, it was every bit as powerful as the Kriya Yoga Master who gave me Shaktipat.

Conversely, I also had the experience of a mega-church pastor (whom I now have reason to think is corrupt) who laid hands on me. But it felt totally different from my Light-filled friend. This man tried to force the energy to me.

Thank you for your heartfelt post, Ali! I could really feel your passion flowing! I do see the beauty in religion. It's there along with the corruption. It's all there. But your post did a magnificent job of conveying the beauty and what your own perception of religion means to you. Thanks for sharing!

[Ali Quadir]

Wow monica, that's beautiful..

On the macro scale the world is about to let go of those limitations on a massive scale, to do this the world polarizes, it is part of a process. Christians are actually processing karma.. Removing it from the system.. By removing it from their system on their personal scale. Us outsiders can help by letting go too.

To a christian muslim or jew his beliefs are his connection to the divine asking them to cut it is unrealistic, allowing it to evolve is natural.

The STS core will attempt to hold unto control. But it's carefully being wrestled from their hands. The whole sexual abuse crisis that the church is dealing with right now does exactly that. It challenges and brings down what used to be fixed in stone. What remains of the religion is a refined evolved version that maybe we can actually bring with us into 4d...

Obviously it cannot be the restrictive centralized version we're seeing now.... Look at the past. Religion was vastly more restrictive back then. If we extrapolate we're moving towards something more decentralized, still organized, chaotic but organic and no longer systematic.

An other really devout Christian I know. He's a bass player who grows his own hemp. He prays for the plants to put more umph in them.. Beautiful long hair too, he's like an angel. Always making arguments with us "heretics" he loves to do that. He even got my buddhist friend all fired up about it. But really it's fascination, he recognizes things too.

for a person to manifest proper love or any higher frequency, (in positive sense), they would need to ignore a majority of the aforementioned religions' rules and orders. that would in the end, basically make them someone who is not in that religion.

Yes.. in a way. Like I said, I don't really believe those majority of religious rules have much to do with the actual religion. As such, I'm a terrible muslim just like you predict would need to happen.

My guess is that this is happening. More like physics than anything really. Evolution in action. That's why I don't oppose atheism. I've called myself a political atheist. It has to happen and this is how it's happening. First we drop the straight jacket, then we find our way.

I like how these opposing positions so often end up not as opposed as they seem to be.. Isn't that the theme of this period?

One more thing that I find interesting..

Religion comes from re-ligare which means to reconnect in latin. (again taking hold of) It's a process, not a status quo. The meaning of submission sneaked in there somewhere in the late middle ages. It wasn't part of the original message or even of the results of the nicean council. Its purely politics. Jesus had nothing to do with that.

[Monica]

Wow monica, that's beautiful..

Your post was beautiful! I don't have to agree 100% to appreciate its beauty.

To a christian muslim or jew his beliefs are his connection to the divine asking them to cut it is unrealistic, allowing it to evolve is natural.

Agreed. I don't think anyone has suggested that we demand someone sever their religious ties if they aren't ready to do that. What has been suggested, as I interpret the suggestion, is that we who are studying the Law of One might consider letting those more distorted dogmas fall away, in favor of something less distorted.

An other really devout Christian I know. He's a bass player who grows his own hemp. He prays for the plants to put more umph in them.. Beautiful long hair too, he's like an angel. Always making arguments with us "heretics" he loves to do that. He even got my buddhist friend all fired up about it. But really it's fascination, he recognizes things too.

Very cool!

[unity100]

ali's post is more wishful thinking, beautification than actual reality. equating christ consciousness, 4d love with christianity doesnt make christianity that thing. christianity as of thousands of years is a control mechanism complete with punishments, forbiddings, exploitation, suppression, repression, politics, hierarchies and more. from limited and acceptable amounts, to maximum and unbearable levels. only with the modern age and demise of religions have softened the situation, yet still it has a serious impact in approx 1 billion people's lives, affecting even the ones that have nothing to do with it through politics.

Everyone used to use this technique, all religions have this sense of spiritual heritage. Keeping the flame alive and passing her down through history. People these days accept it with ease from pagan religions, from buddhism, hinduism, practically all occult traditions. But christianity for unclear reasons is different, it is just an empty shell of rules and has nothing to do with these teachings... This is true even to many followers. We cannot imagine our parents and grandparents and uncle bob to be members of an initiatory tradition. But they are if we look at the evidence.

Not only does the church use the exact same form of rituals in their own initiations. They follow the exact same structure as any other tradition. I could walk you through the cathedrals here in europe and point out the occult meanings. If you are like most you don't see it until it's explained that's why it's called occultism.

in numerous places in Ra text, it is noted that repetition of various predetermined actions do not bring enlightenment or benefit. 'i drink christ's blood' or similar such predetermined traditional moves will not help any entity go forth in their path.

even if one takes it as something that would maybe make them think, make them wonder or take as an example, it is again pointless, because life itself, each and everyone's own life has a lot of various examples as such, in their relatives, or in the people they encounter, events they live. it is naive to expect that they could just break free by a monotonous, repetitive ritual in a religious hiearchy, if they have not broken through via the examples in their own lives, tailored, planned specifically for them. and not surprisingly, it just doesnt happen.

even if one pushes the boundary, and attempts to say that 'but all those rituals are charged with power because billions have been doing it for thousands of years', and assigns them an occult meaning, it is still naive and dangerous -> those rituals also carry all the heritage and spiritual inheritance of what christianity is, along with all its repression, control, all the negative karma that is generated by its participants and the philosophy as a whole, and all the consequences that follow. every iteration of those rituals will be a link not only to whatever 'christ consciousness' that is left meagerly in the time/space counterpart existence of christianity, but also all its heritage, including the negative ones.

'oh but i just want christ consciousness' -> it doesnt happen. you either take whatever you are calling in entirety, and all the influences that the method you are using has, or, you resist the unwanted parts (that is if you can identify them all), either through your own power and will, or, by being guarded by aides or higher self etc. in either case, because of using an impure method or adhering to an impure belief, energy, will is wasted to guard against negative influences. of course, that is if the entity guards itself or guarded against negative influences. if the entity just lumps in the result of the ritual, connection, philosophy, it takes all of it in. actually, talking about negative influence even would be a bit optimistic, because negative influence is even itself a path for progression. more likely, the entity would also draw in all the repeating, entangling, hampering thought patterns and karma that the philosophy has, the very thing which has been hampering the entities up till this point, just as Ra says how the entities were accepting and acknowledging the spiritual principles they are being given, but not manifesting them in their own lives.

actually, that is as such with all such kinds of rituals, and occult. you have to deal with whatever you call in. that becomes even graver when it is remembered that starting with moses, negative influence has been creating religions, and all the following religions derived heavily from them, also carrying the same taint, and even getting invested probably even more, by the orion group that has been working in the area.

..............

teaching stuff to other entities is not a religion. neither duplicating and disseminating the material that has been written.

[unity100]

in retrospect, similar to the above concept, i am suspecting that the various ritual techniques or derived techniques ll group used for Ra contact may have introduced such impurities into the process, leading to various difficulties. the order of the golden dawn, if you research their story, is not so very a positive source. it is possible that any ritual or thought derived from that source also be carrying any kind of spiritual weight that group has had incurred. at one part, don asks about them, and their rituals. if anything was borrowed from them ...

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[Ali Quadir]

ali's post is more wishful thinking, beautification than actual reality. equating christ consciousness, 4d love with christianity doesnt make christianity that thing.

Neither does "negatification" alter reality. I have a positive distortion you have a more negative one. I never equated christ consciousness with christianity. I said it was about achieving christ consciousness. Getting the bus ticket isn't the same as arriving at your destination, it's unfortunately not even a guarantee.

I admit to your reality, there are groups that totally fit your description in all religions including Christianity. They may even be the majority. But my point of view is also true. There are spiritually advanced groups of Christians. And there are Christians who achieve christ consciousness in ways similar to the ways everyone else is doing it.

in numerous places in Ra text, it is noted that repetition of various predetermined actions do not bring enlightenment or benefit. 'i drink christ's blood' or similar such predetermined traditional moves will not help any entity go forth in their path.

It actually does... And what's more, the mere presence of a master can bring enlightenment. He does not even need to do anything. We're not as isolated as we think. We are essentially a tribe, Christ consciousness is inter personal.

Churches and sermons especially the catholic ones. Are completely shaped and defined by their effects on consciousness. The whole ritual is shaped around getting people into meditative states. It won't affect every one, there is a brain center which I mentioned before in another tread (left temporal lobe) that causes people to "fall" into meditation at different speeds. But most experience some pull.

This does not mean every church can invoke this effect, I told you many flames have died under the restrictive doctrine but that christian churches exist that provoke this effect is beyond doubt. I have seen it happen.

Look at this, yes people sink into meditation from this mixture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQZgOLSiVjY

This is up to par with any other religion I know.

Let me sum it up for you.
Gregorian hymns.
Incense.
Prayer.
The presence of people in a meditative state.
Ritual.

Sacred geometric connections in the entire architecture ritual and mantras, sorry chants. If you Americans ever get the chance to visit a church that is over 400 years old. Go in there, sit on a bench close your eyes, feel. It can be more powerful than the most powerful nature nodes I've experienced. Then again, of course, they're usually built on them!

It also helps to study the occult influences on the church and of the church. Those that influenced the ritual, and where the churches ritual was taken into other traditions. Wicca, the self professed nature religion for example was actually designed by members of a masonic group. Who copy much of their esoteric basis from the occultists of the middle ages who in turn are basically christian. And this church copied traditions from pagans they assimilated and of course the greeks and romans. We tend to see big differences because they're obvious, but the similarities are much more subtle. Point being that they've got the proven technology and knowledge to invoke meditative states.

Not only did the buddha after he awoke in Siddhārtha Gautama began teaching people and to give sermons. He continued to do this in many incarnations. Buddha is not a person. Buddha is a state of being, just like Christ. Just like 4th density. Jesus is not christ. Jesus became christ in the desert.

I understand. This is a key tenet of most New Age-based interpretations of these avatars. What do you think this means in Law of One terms?

4d consciousness is interpersonal, when two different people connect to that consciousness they begin to share qualities and synchronize. To the point where one entity can be convinced he is the reincarnation of another entity. In truth they are the same experiential reality manifesting at two different times in two individual mind body complexes.

When you let go of the ego structure and identify with your own IAM presence, then when other people identify with their IAM presence, they are essentially one with you.

It's not as binary as I put it, you can distinguish between the personal, the soul group, the family, the tribe, the nation and the human. So you would resonate with your soul group more than with your national or religious group.

We are from this point of view essentially already a multitude of beings resonating together to create one individual.

I'm not sure how that goes in Law of One terms.

For an entity to be Christ or Buddha, does that mean s/he is an adept? Has all chakras open? Or has just penetrated the veil and is dwelling in 4D...or...what?

To become a buddha you need to rise above your ego, enter the clear lands. This is where the personal addictions lose their grip. And it is by Buddhists often achieved by thousands of repetitions of certain prayers and ritual motions. This is how they stop fear and desire there are other ways, this is theirs. There is another level to achieve where you rise above your individuality, at which point you not only dwell in 4d, you are present in all other individuals.

This is an almost literal translation of what buddhists do. Offcourse extremely simplified.

In practical terms, the previous karmapa was known during festivities to sometimes call people over and tell them their friends have been delayed due to a flat tire but are fine and will arrive 30 minutes later.

He's identified with the group soul of the group he is in and thus has access to the experiences of all members. Vice versa all members are influenced by his conscious presence in their group soul.

This isn't restricted to Buddhism either. Although it's one of the few remaining religions where displays of this magnitude are common.

My imaginary friend functions through the same mechanism. He is what you could call a holy man in my society.

He went to teach shortly after that. Jesus knew his death was required to get the message out. He was a 4d entity. He was actually killed not for being Jesus an innocent lamb, obviously not. He was dragging people away from the traditional religion. Which he clearly did not kill.

Was he dragging them from the religious customs of the day, or from reliance on rigid dogma?

I think it's the latter. Which is why I think it's tragic that followers ended up perpetuating more dogma.

The latter I would say aswell. He stated quite clearly, not an ounce of the law will be revoked. All Gods laws apply in full. But I pay the debt. He freed people from sin, without any eternal laws being revoked. An energetic shortcut. People however still don't believe they're free.

This is a symbol of course, the Buddhists call the same principle the wheel of karma. What it means is that a certain situation keeps playing itself out until we realize we have control over it. To a Christian I would say: he paid the debt but it's up to us to put down the burden.

Judaism is alive and well today in many many different forms. Including my personal favourites the Rastafarians.

Wow, I am feeling very sheepish to admit this, but I didn't know Rastafarianism was a form of Judaism! :-/

When the jews escaped from egypt into the desert and later returned to Israel some jews refused to go back to the promised land. They went south and ended up in Ethiopia to try a new life. A few of them settled and Ethiopians liked their point of view and converted. From there they were kidnapped by the European tribes and as slaves brought to other places. In Jamaica the movement to return to africa was strong and after the slavery was lifted around the 1930's they started the rastafarian movement. Which was based on Haile Selassie, an Ethiopian king.

Haile Selassie's full title was (and I cite the wikipedia, no one remembers this ) "His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, and Elect of God"

They're an extremely young and unique version of Jews it's really easy to miss that they are but their spiritual lineage is real.

I see religion as being very complex and containing all the attributes described by you, me, unity100, and everyone else who has participated in this thread. It all depends on which aspect you choose to focus on, for the sake of conversation.

That's good There are many many facets to religion indeed.

I see it as a lineage of consciousness.

Hmmm...interesting. Do you mean as in, 1 person passing on, or awakening, consciousness in another?

That's the same thing isn't it? This consciousness is singular. If I had it and were to awaken christ consciousness in you you'd have my Christ consciousness. If you arrived to 4d on your own, you'd find the exact same consciousness. There is only one IAM.

An initiation is not a miraculous lighting of a candle! At worst it should not hinder our personal growth to awakening at best it might help a little. It remains a gradual process. There are mostly no miracles.

I have as well. I've also had spiritual experiences, and witnessed spiritual experiences, outside religion, and even as a result of leaving organized religion behind. It can work either way.

Exactly, we simply need to find a sweet spot that we feel comfortable in.

I do agree that a religion can have a group consciousness aspect (if I'm understanding you correctly). I've long thought that those of a certain religion share a group consciousness. This is based on many observations of otherwise unexplainable phenomena.

Like the healings and other miracles, yes, you know what I'm talking about.

Well, if mainstream Christianity has lost its heritage, it's because its religious leaders chose to eliminate it in favor of promoting superficial teachings.

Are you certain?

If religion were allowed to run rampant achieving 4d consciousness would be a no brainer. If you pollute it however you can actually use it as a tool to keep people away from 4d consciousness.

But a religious leader who is true won't choose superficial teachings. He is too aware for that. He won't allow his lineage to be corrupted. These people often would die for their heritage in a heart beat. I think it needed both corruption from the outside and a dulling down on the inside. To get weaker and weaker guardians of the flame in place. In a gradual process that was completed when the flame went out.

The older religions like Catholicism still have that heritage, to some degree. But I was brought up Catholic and no one ever taught me the mystical teachings of the rituals I participated in twice a week. (And I even attended Catholic school for 6 years!) So although it's there, the 'heritage' didn't do me any good!

Same here I never learned either. And most people there don't know they simply execute the recipes. But have you never as a child experienced a mystical experience in church? The fact that no one knows doesn't mean it isn't there. Those servicing sermons are actually trained intensively to do things right.

A popular current trend focuses on nothing more than mere belief. Even acts of love and compassion have been downplayed in favor of just proselytizing to others, to get their ticket. Nothing more than mere belief is needed. Anyone believing differently is deemed 'satanic.' This particular flavor of Christianity, in my opinion, is so highly distorted that I've wondered what their ratio of STS graduates is!

Eh, current trend? Sure, the middle ages are current affairs in galactic terms but!

I do see a lot of the heritage you describe in Catholicism. I have memories of reverence mixed in with the fear of hell, from my childhood.

Me too.. Fortunately my imaginary friend explained to me early on that hell was the or else evil people had added there, it doesn't exist. I never took it seriously, the fear of hurting the people around me was my cage.

Yes, I've been to some of those cathedrals! They do contain mystic symbolism and even energy vortexes. I had a spontaneous initiatory experience when I walk the path of the ruins at Glastonbury Abbey. This experience was every bit as powerful as the one I had atop Glastonbury Tor, or amongst the standing stones at Callanish, both decidedly Pagan 'sacred sites.'

These sites are certainly not restricted to Christians. Christian is just a flavor they come in. Glastonbury is powerful indeed I haven't been there unfortunately but a few of my friends tell the same story you do. I can imagine you having those experiences there. You resonate with paganism.

The papal line is a line of initiation, just like the pharaoic tradition every next pope was given the "papal-consciousness" whatever they call it by the previous one..

Ali, I've been enjoying your thoughts...but I may have to part ways here. I agree that the position of pope is a succession but I'm not so sure it's an initiation, or at least not of the STO variety. The pope is the leader of a vast empire, just as any political leader.

The rituals are public you know, you can check it out... But before you really part ways, remember that I also said that that flame died out long ago? They go through the steps but I don't think they actually pass anything on these days apart from the hat and the political agenda. We're not really disagreeing.

This week the pope attacked the British atheists. I loved that.. Talk about fertilizing your enemies crops.

It may sound terrible that the Law of One may one day become a religion. But be honest, it is as important to you as a religion could be. It is to me. The Law of One taught me extremely much. I would not be at the level I am today without it.

I consider the Law of One my spiritual path, to be sure. I personally prefer to distinguish it from religion. (But that gets into our preferred semantics again.)

And thats the thing! Imagine a true Christian, would he not call Christianity his spiritual path? The distinction you make for yourself implies a discernment made upon Christians. One that is true for many, but not for all... Since in my semantics I see religion as this grabbing motion towards the divine. I see the similarities. But other people than you see your semantics. And calling the Law of One a religion will only subject it to those interpretations. That'd be undesirable. I'm just pointing out similarities.

Just as many polarize STO via the vehicle of religion, so too do others polarize STS via the vehicle of religion. Religion is an equal-opportunity polarizer.

Lol I am not sure if that sounds good or bad.

I know exactly what you are referring to! I have met people exactly like that! A former co-worker comes to mind. She was a Charismatic Christian. She used to pray with me in the bathroom during our work breaks. She absolutely glowed with joy, love and compassion! And when she laid hands on me in prayer, it was every bit as powerful as the Kriya Yoga Master who gave me Shaktipat.

Conversely, I also had the experience of a mega-church pastor (whom I now have reason to think is corrupt) who laid hands on me. But it felt totally different from my Light-filled friend. This man tried to force the energy to me.

Uhhuh, I've seen those on TV.. I get energetically very upset about that. Those people are STS. Those rituals are pure STS in design. The amount of ego going through those guys.

The difference is clear... do you have before you a humble person or a dictator? If it's a humble person give all you can, if it's a dictator, play games with them. Have fun, confusion is good for them, it causes doubt and depolarizes. Be their Loki!

Thank you for your heartfelt post, Ali! I could really feel your passion flowing! I do see the beauty in religion. It's there along with the corruption. It's all there. But your post did a magnificent job of conveying the beauty and what your own perception of religion means to you. Thanks for sharing!

Thank you Monica. It's been a very consistent theme in my life. Religion, my belief in God is in the end a semantic distortion. Just as anything is. But it helps bring reality into focus for me.

There's a big difference between the core mission of religion and the current institution. The institutions have almost always lost track of the core mission. The core mission is assisting people to become a divine creature. I support the mission and the groups that keep this mission alive, but not the institutions. This is the time of their undoing. Scandal after scandal undermines their authority.

In Holland we had a gay prince Carnival. Carnival is started in church, the bishop refused to allow the man in his church. But other churches under that bishop then invited him in defiance! It was an emperors clothes moment.

It's not a singular organism, nothing is, not even us. The hierarchy is losing grip to synchronistic behavior. As above so below, or in this case as below so above!

[Monica]

Wonderful post, Ali!

I have a positive distortion you have a more negative one.

I think you're both right.

I admit to your reality, there are groups that totally fit your description in all religions including Christianity. They may even be the majority. But my point of view is also true.

Is there an echo in here?

in numerous places in Ra text, it is noted that repetition of various predetermined actions do not bring enlightenment or benefit. 'i drink christ's blood' or similar such predetermined traditional moves will not help any entity go forth in their path.

It actually does... And what's more, the mere presence of a master can bring enlightenment. He does not even need to do anything. We're not as isolated as we think. We are essentially a tribe, Christ consciousness is inter personal.

Unity, I think I remember the quotes you're referring to, but if you happen to have them handy, that would be helpful!

Ali, I think there is truth to what you say, but it isn't quite that simple. Many people have been in the presence of masters and remained unaffected. I think the person has to be ready to receive the enlightenment. The master cannot cause the enlightenment; only facilitate it if the aspirant is ready.

Churches and sermons especially the catholic ones. Are completely shaped and defined by their effects on consciousness. The whole ritual is shaped around getting people into meditative states. It won't affect every one, there is a brain center which I mentioned before in another tread (left temporal lobe) that causes people to "fall" into meditation at different speeds. But most experience some pull.

This does not mean every church can invoke this effect, I told you many flames have died under the restrictive doctrine but that christian churches exist that provoke this effect is beyond doubt. I have seen it happen.

In 18 years of attending Catholic Mass 1-3 times per week, I never had that happen. Not saying it doesn't happen for some...but it didn't for me. The opposite happened in my case. Ever since I was a very little child, I got sick in church. I would either faint or throw up. I'd go outside and be fine. So I wasn't really sick; just got sick in church! Even if the windows were open. My husband says it must be because they burned me at the stake in a past life, haha.

Sacred geometric connections in the entire architecture ritual and mantras, sorry chants. If you Americans ever get the chance to visit a church that is over 400 years old. Go in there, sit on a bench close your eyes, feel. It can be more powerful than the most powerful nature nodes I've experienced. Then again, of course, they're usually built on them!

I read a book about how the Christian churches are built on ley lines and Pagan power sites. When I went to England & Scotland, I saw that it was true.

It's true that there is a lot of power permeating the actual structures. It's also true that there's a lot of pain due to all the bloodshed. I felt an odd mixture of both when I visited the cathedrals in Britain. But the same could be said of the Pagan sites like Stonehenge.

It also helps to study the occult influences on the church and of the church. Those that influenced the ritual, and where the churches ritual was taken into other traditions. Wicca, the self professed nature religion for example was actually designed by members of a masonic group. Who copy much of their esoteric basis from the occultists of the middle ages who in turn are basically christian. And this church copied traditions from pagans they assimilated and of course the greeks and romans. We tend to see big differences because they're obvious, but the similarities are much more subtle. Point being that they've got the proven technology and knowledge to invoke meditative states.

True but it's a double-edged sword. A lot of that ritual was used to control people.

When you let go of the ego structure and identify with your own IAM presence, then when other people identify with their IAM presence, they are essentially one with you.

OK let's make a point to test this out when we all get there!

My imaginary friend functions through the same mechanism. He is what you could call a holy man in my society.

Imaginary friend? sorry, did I miss a previous reference?

This is a symbol of course,

Whew! You had me worried there for a second!

the Buddhists call the same principle the wheel of karma. What it means is that a certain situation keeps playing itself out until we realize we have control over it. To a Christian I would say: he paid the debt but it's up to us to put down the burden.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I understand you are putting concepts into terms they can fit into their paradigm. I sometimes do that, but more often than not, I feel more honest and clear if I am upfront with them in saying that I really don't subscribe to the whole 'Jesus paid for sins' concept. I consider that one of the grossest distortions in Christianity.

They're an extremely young and unique version of Jews it's really easy to miss that they are but their spiritual lineage is real.

So when did the sacred weed become one of their sacraments?

An initiation is not a miraculous lighting of a candle! At worst it should not hinder our personal growth to awakening at best it might help a little. It remains a gradual process. There are mostly no miracles.

Ah, then we are in agreement. I said as much above.

Exactly, we simply need to find a sweet spot that we feel comfortable in.

Agreed. And my spot might not be the same as your spot...

I do agree that a religion can have a group consciousness aspect (if I'm understanding you correctly). I've long thought that those of a certain religion share a group consciousness. This is based on many observations of otherwise unexplainable phenomena.

Like the healings and other miracles, yes, you know what I'm talking about.

Both positive and negative attributes. Healings, most definitely. I have witnessed these. I have also witnessed church members attempting to 'deliver' ie. exorcise demons from people, and this was horrible to watch. That's when I left the born-again church, after seeing a young couple get attacked for living together. But actually, I was referring to tangible things like mannerisms of speech, speaking in tongues, etc. I've noticed those of a certain belief often talk alike, even if they're geographically across the country. I've long suspected it was a group consciousness they were all tapping into. Which would explain why the pastor thought I was 'resisting' when he laid hands on me. I actually welcomed healing at the time, but I channeled the energy rather than submit to it. It was actually kinda funny - about 20 people in a row fainted when he touched them, and then he got to me and I remained standing. It was just a rush of energy, after all! But he became very confounded and annoyed with me. heh.

Well, if mainstream Christianity has lost its heritage, it's because its religious leaders chose to eliminate it in favor of promoting superficial teachings.

Are you certain?

I am referring to the popular flavor of Christianity that focuses on being 'saved' at the exclusion of all else. I consider that very self-serving and elitist.

If religion were allowed to run rampant achieving 4d consciousness would be a no brainer. If you pollute it however you can actually use it as a tool to keep people away from 4d consciousness.

Oooh, that's a loaded statement which I think could use a qualifier. Might I suggest: If positive aspects of religion were allowed to... ?

Thank you for the 2nd statement, which clarifies. Polluted versions of religions have already been allowed to run rampant. As the bumpersticker says, they called it the Dark Ages.

But have you never as a child experienced a mystical experience in church?

Not in Catholic church. I mostly found it creepy, sorry. I did however have mystical experiences when I was a born-again Christian. And of course also when I left Christianity altogether. But not as a Catholic.

The fact that no one knows doesn't mean it isn't there. Those servicing sermons are actually trained intensively to do things right.

I did get a basic foundation of values from my Catholic upbringing, for which I am grateful and which I retained, for the most part. But I confess I usually daydreamed during the sermons, regardless of which priest was preaching.

Eh, current trend? Sure, the middle ages are current affairs in galactic terms but!

Maybe you don't have it in your country. It's quite prevalent in many cities in the US. Do a search on any 'New Age' term + 'satanic' and see how many hits you get. Modern witch hunts!

I can imagine you having those experiences there. You resonate with paganism.

Haha, can you tell?

The rituals are public you know, you can check it out... But before you really part ways, remember that I also said that that flame died out long ago? They go through the steps but I don't think they actually pass anything on these days apart from the hat and the political agenda. We're not really disagreeing.

OK agreed. I would venture to say that there is an STS component to those rituals. Large empires tend to have a strong STS energy so I don't see how the world's largest religious empire would be any different.

This week the pope attacked the British atheists. I loved that.. Talk about fertilizing your enemies crops.

Good move!

And thats the thing! Imagine a true Christian, would he not call Christianity his spiritual path?

Of course.

But what is a 'true Christian'? Depends on whom you ask. What I would consider a 'true' Christian is one who follows the example shown by Christed beings such as Jesus, Buddha, etc. Belief would have nothing to do with it.

But ask any mainstream Christian what is a 'true Christian' and you will get a list of beliefs that are required, with belief in the Bible as the 'word of God' at the top of the list.

The distinction you make for yourself implies a discernment made upon Christians.

Only a distinction is intended, not judgment.

But other people than you see your semantics. And calling the Law of One a religion will only subject it to those interpretations. That'd be undesirable. I'm just pointing out similarities.

We cannot escape issues with semantics. When people hear a word used, they translate it to the connotation that fits their own paradigm. What's needed for good communication is to try to understand the other person's paradigm, and thus his/her intended meaning, which may be totally different from what we thought.

Just as many polarize STO via the vehicle of religion, so too do others polarize STS via the vehicle of religion. Religion is an equal-opportunity polarizer.

Lol I am not sure if that sounds good or bad.

Definitely not good! Religion has been used to polarize STS, undoubtedly. Or, to be more accurate, the institution of religion. (Trying to get our semantics straight here, heh.)

Uhhuh, I've seen those on TV.. I get energetically very upset about that. Those people are STS. Those rituals are pure STS in design. The amount of ego going through those guys.

case in point.

The difference is clear... do you have before you a humble person or a dictator? If it's a humble person give all you can, if it's a dictator, play games with them. Have fun, confusion is good for them, it causes doubt and depolarizes.

Thanks for the advice!

There's a big difference between the core mission of religion and the current institution. The institutions have almost always lost track of the core mission. The core mission is assisting people to become a divine creature. I support the mission and the groups that keep this mission alive, but not the institutions. This is the time of their undoing. Scandal after scandal undermines their authority.

And therein lies the crux of the disagreements on this thread. I submit that all participants on this thread have had varying definitions of the term religion. When one person intended spirituality, another person translated in their mind institutions. This has caused a lot of apparent disagreement when actually there was probably more agreement than disagreement.

In Holland we had a gay prince Carnival. Carnival is started in church, the bishop refused to allow the man in his church. But other churches under that bishop then invited him in defiance! It was an emperors clothes moment.

Good for them for standing up to authority!

It's not a singular organism, nothing is, not even us. The hierarchy is losing grip to synchronistic behavior. As above so below, or in this case as below so above!

Agreed!

[unity100]

ali's post is more wishful thinking, beautification than actual reality. equating christ consciousness, 4d love with christianity doesnt make christianity that thing.

Neither does "negatification" alter reality. I have a positive distortion you have a more negative one. I never equated christ consciousness with christianity. I said it was about achieving christ consciousness. Getting the bus ticket isn't the same as arriving at your destination, it's unfortunately not even a guarantee.

I admit to your reality, there are groups that totally fit your description in all religions including Christianity. They may even be the majority. But my point of view is also true. There are spiritually advanced groups of Christians. And there are Christians who achieve christ consciousness in ways similar to the ways everyone else is doing it.

this is not negative, or negatification. this is wisdom. your approach is unfounded optimism.

there are reasons why negative entities seed and twist messages, but still send messages to positive entities when they chance up with one. firstly they want to mix in negative with positive, so seeding and expanding on them can be possible later, second, they want to be able to keep the channel with the contacted group open, even if it is a positive one. if a channel is open, it is possible to seed it with more negative information in future.

the entire story of religions from caanan region is a good example. from the '10 commandments' which include positive things like you shouldnt steal and such, to whole negative array that can be found in resulting islam. all 2 religions borrowed from their predecessor.

the negatively oriented material coming through these channels/links have increased, ultimately culminating in the catholic church, islamic conquests and repressive rule.

'negativized' is a misplaced word. these religions were not negativized later. these religions were created negatively. what was given to moses was given by negative orion group, directly. immediately after jesus's death (and probably while he was alive) his apostles have already been building on judaic heritage coming from moses to concile the new religion with masses. mohammad directly created a religion, saying he was the emissary of god, and he was above all entities, and directly borrowed from judaism and christianity.

this is not 'negativization'. this is direct negative.

It actually does... And what's more, the mere presence of a master can bring enlightenment. He does not even need to do anything. We're not as isolated as we think. We are essentially a tribe, Christ consciousness is inter personal.

Churches and sermons especially the catholic ones. Are completely shaped and defined by their effects on consciousness. The whole ritual is shaped around getting people into meditative states. It won't affect every one, there is a brain center which I mentioned before in another tread (left temporal lobe) that causes people to "fall" into meditation at different speeds. But most experience some pull.

This does not mean every church can invoke this effect, I told you many flames have died under the restrictive doctrine but that christian churches exist that provoke this effect is beyond doubt. I have seen it happen.

Look at this, yes people sink into meditation from this mixture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQZgOLSiVjY

This is up to par with any other religion I know.

Let me sum it up for you.
Gregorian hymns.
Incense.
Prayer.
The presence of people in a meditative state.
Ritual.

Sacred geometric connections in the entire architecture ritual and mantras, sorry chants. If you Americans ever get the chance to visit a church that is over 400 years old. Go in there, sit on a bench close your eyes, feel. It can be more powerful than the most powerful nature nodes I've experienced. Then again, of course, they're usually built on them!

It also helps to study the occult influences on the church and of the church. Those that influenced the ritual, and where the churches ritual was taken into other traditions. Wicca, the self professed nature religion for example was actually designed by members of a masonic group. Who copy much of their esoteric basis from the occultists of the middle ages who in turn are basically christian. And this church copied traditions from pagans they assimilated and of course the greeks and romans. We tend to see big differences because they're obvious, but the similarities are much more subtle. Point being that they've got the proven technology and knowledge to invoke meditative states.

in accordance with the above block i posted ;

in any mixed lot there are better ones, there are worse ones. even in nazi group there were ones who didnt want genocides to happen, and there were ones who went further than committing genocides. even in our current planet, there are better people, and worse people.

this doesnt change the fact that a certain grouping of elements sharing a certain metaphysical concept, link, connection, channel, will be getting affected similarly through that channel. the end result is what matters.

are the power and influences of those better people and groups, coupled with the optimism and positive effort of people like you, enough to undo the negative influence ? if not so, 'yet', will it be ever enough to do that ?

if, it will be enough to do that in future, is it wise to spare that energy and effort into trying to wrest a heavily muddied, negative philosophy/channel that a negative society complex stands behind and feeds ? what about already existing purer principles, concepts, groups, philosophies ?

is it even logical to expect a lottery to hit oneself or someone else sitting in the church repeating a repetitive ritual for the 568th time, that 'something will spark', and shoulder all the negative influence that is probably still being channeled to these religions by the negative influencers ?

it isnt. had it been any useful, the world would be a MUCH better place by now, since billions have done the same sitting and laboring and meditating in religious houses and temples and whatnot for eons.

spiritual journey is not a journey of lottery. the entity is responsible with acting in conjunction with its own desire, and manifesting principles that it learned in its life. sticking to an impure channel, for whatever reason, despite purer information and channels and methods and means being given, and then expecting anything to happen, is just irresponsible.

this is a journey of sacrifices for betterment. if an entity cannot let go of impure channels and thoughts, it means it is not ready for advancing to next step, regardless of the reasons it shows to itself or its spiritual circle.

[Monica]

there are reasons why negative entities seed and twist messages, but still send messages to positive entities when they chance up with one. firstly they want to mix in negative with positive, so seeding and expanding on them can be possible later, second, they want to be able to keep the channel with the contacted group open, even if it is a positive one. if a channel is open, it is possible to seed it with more negative information in future.

the entire story of religions from caanan region is a good example. from the '10 commandments' which include positive things like you shouldnt steal and such, to whole negative array that can be found in resulting islam. all 2 religions borrowed from their predecessor.

the negatively oriented material coming through these channels/links have increased, ultimately culminating in the catholic church, islamic conquests and repressive rule.

'negativized' is a misplaced word. these religions were not negativized later. these religions were created negatively. what was given to moses was given by negative orion group, directly. immediately after jesus's death (and probably while he was alive) his apostles have already been building on judaic heritage coming from moses to concile the new religion with masses. mohammad directly created a religion, saying he was the emissary of god, and he was above all entities, and directly borrowed from judaism and christianity.

this is not 'negativization'. this is direct negative.

I can't argue with any of that. You're right.

Ali is also right.

...in that many people do manage to find the love, despite the negativity...many people have somehow managed to create great beauty from within such a negative structure.

From the STS perspective, it's negative. But they too serve the Creator. It's their job to provide catalyst. Ultimately, it's all catalyst. While many people have not utilized this particular catalyst and ended up negative or confused, stuck in 3D, others have utilized the catalyst and transcended the negativity.

So then, as you address in the next part of your post, the question becomes: Is this efficient? Which is what I think you're trying to address here. We don't need to debate whether some souls have managed to create beauty and even polarize STO while being immersed in traditional religions. Neither do we need to debate that those particular religions were seeded by STS, since Ra tells us that.

The question then becomes, how can we reconcile the situation?

are the power and influences of those better people and groups, coupled with the optimism and positive effort of people like you, enough to undo the negative influence ? if not so, 'yet', will it be ever enough to do that ?

Despite the fact that I agree with Ali that much good has manifested as a result of those 'better' people and groups, I have to agree that it hasn't been enough. When I was a child, I was taught to pray for world peace, for the hungry, for the poor, etc. I remember thinking back then, what is the point? It all seemed so overwhelming.

Nowadays, I meet Christians who talk of healing others because Jesus told them to do what he did, which was heal. Some of them have even told me that they realize, deep down, that Christianity as a whole has failed. Now, before anyone gets riled about this statement, please realize that this is what THEY said! These are their words, not mine! Several of my Christian friends, of differing denominations, have confided this to me.

They admitted that they felt a bit guilty for thinking such thoughts. They resolved to continue to have faith that God was in control, God had a reason to allow all the suffering on the planet, God had a reason to take their wife, God had a reason to let them get cancer, etc. etc. They were trying very hard to make sense of what was happening in their lives and on the planet, to try to fit it into the structure of what they were required to believe.

But deep down, they were confused, frightened, and grief-stricken. If a family member was in a car accident and survived, they'd rejoice that God spared the person...isn't God great? But if a family member died in the car accident, then it was "God's will" because "God needed an angel in heaven."

Such simplistic explanations...falling far short of any real sense of understanding.

I have sometimes suggested the concept of reincarnation to them, hoping that, if they could at least understand this simple concept, it would help ease their pain. But rarely is the person open to the idea. In most cases, they get terrified of even considering an "Eastern" philosophy. After all, they have been taught that reincarnation, along with psychic phenomena, even alternative healing, etc. are all "satanic."

This is the part in which I have to agree with you, unity100. These people are beautiful souls. I see such a purity of heart among them. It's lovely to behold. They genuinely do want to serve the Creator, and are doing so in the way they know how. We cannot judge these people. But I see them, time and time again, butting their heads against the wall, trying so hard to make sense of their lives, trying so hard to understand, within a system with unnecessary constraints.

Such a simple and useful tool like the freedom to believe in reincarnation is denied them. Using crystals to amplify intentions is denied them. Buddhist meditation techniques are denied them. Reading books that aren't expressly Christian...denied them. I cannot share the Law of One with them, because they will be terrified.

Why? Because they've taught that such things are satanic. Who or what is trying to control these people, and why?

There are books written about the "dangers of the New Age" etc. Websites with extensive commentary about how anything remotely esoteric, to be shunned and even fought, because it is a "false teaching from satan."

So while these people might be open to new ideas, they aren't allowed to pursue them, because their religious authorities tell them not to. This isn't a small pocket of Christians. This is very widespread. The modern born-again Christian network is huge and powerful. In my city, these types of churches far outnumber the conventional denominations like Catholic. Some of them are huge, with 30,000 members. A small city! Inside, they reek of extreme wealth. I noticed sculptures decorating their offices that must have cost many thousands of dollars. Not to mention the luxurious furnishings.

Some of the conventional denominations are just as fear-based. My Baptist friends have similar fears about anything remotely alternative or having an "Eastern" flavor. One woman even told me not to use herbs because that would make me a witch!!

When I visited a Mormon social event during election time, the speaker actually said that he assumed everyone in the audience was Republican. Then the same thing happened at a born-again church...The pastor gave a sermon about how evil the Muslims were. Around the same time, a Baptist co-worker actually told me that all the Muslims should be wiped out, since they were "all going to hell anyway." A pastor visited a local college with a few of his followers carrying signs that all gays are going to hell, except they didn't use the word gay; they used a much ruder term. Another time, when I was campaigning for Ron Paul (a Christian) and visited a church, they told me they could not support him because he wanted to end the war. I was like, huh??? Isn't that a good thing? to which they replied, "We can't vote for an anti-war candidate. God supports war." (Yeah, no kidding!!! And this is a direct quote!)

Are these people coming up with this stuff on their own? I don't think so. They're doing what they think is right, according to what they've been taught. It all centers around the belief that the book is the infallible 'word of God.'

The hierarchy, the structure, the institution...that is what is trying very hard to maintain control.

On the one hand, I see what Ali is seeing: the control is slipping. I see new movements in Christian churches spreading like wildfire...like my friend's Universalism movement, like numerous peace movements, alternative health movements, movements to seek understanding with other religions...these Christians, Muslims, etc. are seeking to expand their paradigm and doing a great job, a joy to behold!

At the same time, I see a clenching, a locking down, amongst the more fundamentalist groups. They even call the Charismatics, Catholics, and Universalists "not really Christian," "satanically misled" and destined for "hell"!

So clearly people are polarizing one way or the other, and being attracted to the religion that matches their choice.

But it's the ones still trapped in the middle I am concerned about, and, if I'm understanding you correctly (unity100), you are too. These lovely souls truly do want to polarize STO. They are doing the best they can. But they keep meeting a resistance, because of the "authority" who is telling them what to believe. They are being held back. I know some of these people would totally open up and just blossom, if not for these restraining authorities. It is on this point I agree with you. The institutions, being rooted in STS control, are making it unnecessarily difficult for these lights to shine brightly.

if, it will be enough to do that in future, is it wise to spare that energy and effort into trying to wrest a heavily muddied, negative philosophy/channel that a negative society complex stands behind and feeds ? what about already existing purer principles, concepts, groups, philosophies ?

I agree in theory. But how do we do that, without imposing on their free will? How do we get past the conditioning? And do we even have the right to help another-self get past the conditioning?

it isnt. had it been any useful, the world would be a MUCH better place by now, since billions have done the same sitting and laboring and meditating in religious houses and temples and whatnot for eons.

It could be argued, conversely, that the world would be a much worse place were it not for those bight lights in monasteries doing their prayers and meditations.

At the same time, I do see your point. We know from Ra/Q'uo that this planet is very behind, compared to others. It's reasonable to conclude that the Orion influence had something to do with that, but let's not forget that this planet was basically an experiment to begin with, so there are other factors at work here too.

I have a business associate who is a Christian pastor. He confided in me that he is very frustrated with the people in his congregation. He is of course totally Bible-oriented, but he does try to get them to wake up to what he believes is their "power bestowed by Jesus" to go out and heal the sick and feed the hungry. He said these people ask for prayers for their cancer, their financial difficulties, etc., get results temporarily, and then a few weeks later are back with the same problems. He expressed frustration. He said, "Why aren't they being healed permanently? And why aren't they going out and healing others as Jesus said to do?"

This is an example of unrest within the religion. Perhaps people in those religions are beginning to wake up. In his case, he has never questioned the religion itself, but at least he is questioning the end results that are manifesting, and choosing to focus on the positive aspects (the teachings of Jesus, although very little survived in the book) rather than the negative. It's a start. But in response to your point, why aren't the followers of these religions moving mountains, healing the sick, ending wars, etc.?

spiritual journey is not a journey of lottery. the entity is responsible with acting in conjunction with its own desire, and manifesting principles that it learned in its life. sticking to an impure channel, for whatever reason, despite purer information and channels and methods and means being given, and then expecting anything to happen, is just irresponsible.

this is a journey of sacrifices for betterment. if an entity cannot let go of impure channels and thoughts, it means it is not ready for advancing to next step, regardless of the reasons it shows to itself or its spiritual circle.

What do you suggest? How do we encourage purer information, without imposing on the free will of others?

[Ali Quadir]

No, yours is merely an opinion unity. One that generalizes and rejects whole tribes of people. It's not including it's excluding. Not towards the one but towards separation.

I don't value that particular opinion. I see it all around me, and like those people you don't actually give me the impression of knowing what you talk about when you take the word Islam in your mouth.

[Monica]

No, yours is merely an opinion unity. One that generalizes and rejects whole tribes of people. It's not including it's excluding. Not towards the one but towards separation.

I don't value that particular opinion. I see it all around me, and like those people you don't actually give me the impression of knowing what you talk about when you take the word Islam in your mouth.

All of us are expressing our opinions. Could it be that the disagreement has to do with whether the person is focusing on the people in the religions, or the institutions themselves?

[Shemaya]

A big topic, and it's generating a lot of feelings and emotions....what would 3-d be without catalyst?

1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.

All of us are expressing our opinions. Could it be that the disagreement has to do with whether the person is focusing on the people in the religions, or the institutions themselves?

I would venture to say that there is more to the disagreement then that and that is why I quoted the above passage from christian scripture. This passage has helped me so much to move ahead in my path, and seek the truth about LOVE. I am still learning, and it is a process.

The LOO was a blessing to me the way it explained our purpose...this being a density of choice...and for me that means choosing love, and learning what that means. How can I love more authentically, more truly? What does that mean to me? I am a Christian, meaning I follow Jesus as a wayshower, and Jesus' teachings. I was born and raised in Christianity in this lifetime and others, my circle of family and friends is completely penetrated with the history and energy of christianity. Born catholic and now part of a community of evangelical Bible-believing christians, it has been a challenge to trust my inner truth to follow this "mystical" path.

I have finally let go of the doctrine! and am finally at peace with that, I embrace myself as a mystical Christian. However my friends and family have not. They are my loved ones and community. How do I best serve them?

Well I also finally learned that it doesn't work to beat them over the head with a truth two-by-four. And by that I mean, my attitude that I know the truth and they do not. The attitude that I am superior in my wisdom and knowledge of Truth . It can be very unloving.

Our global community of humanity has so many unique sparks of the Creator, there are 2 billion Christians. How will we best serve the emergence of 4-D. Criticize their viewpoint? Point out their errors of intellect? I recently left a spiritual teaching that asked me to do that. It was separating and divisive.

It left me depressed and disempowered, sad and angry. It did not work for my life, for the energy I am experiencing in my life.

I feel the Truth has to be balanced with love...and love is what we are choosing in 3-D.

Many good points have been made , I value everyone's opinion on this thread.

I would like to suggest that we approach these matters from our hearts, in a like-hearted and loving community of seekers.

I hope I am making sense.


Shalom!!

[Ali Quadir]

All of us are expressing our opinions. Could it be that the disagreement has to do with whether the person is focusing on the people in the religions, or the institutions themselves?

Hmm... it could be... Lets try...

Unity, are you focussing on the people in the religions? Or on the institution themselves... In other words, are you able to see this from those two different perspectives? Or do you see only one absolute perspective?

[Shemaya]

this is a journey of sacrifices for betterment. if an entity cannot let go of impure channels and thoughts, it means it is not ready for advancing to next step, regardless of the reasons it shows to itself or its spiritual circle.

Unity,
Is is a race to see who can be more advanced? Or is it a collective effort, that together we are creating betterment for all?

I feel for betterment of all, for the benefit of the whole community of planet earth. It's a journey we take as a community, in relationships imo.

What do you think?

[Monica]

I would venture to say that there is more to the disagreement then that and that is why I quoted the above passage from christian scripture. This passage has helped me so much to move ahead in my path, and seek the truth about LOVE.

Thank you for sharing this beautiful quote from Christian scripture!

I am still learning, and it is a process.

As we all are!

The LOO was a blessing to me the way it explained our purpose...this being a density of choice...and for me that means choosing love, and learning what that means. How can I love more authentically, more truly? What does that mean to me? I am a Christian, meaning I follow Jesus as a wayshower, and Jesus' teachings. I was born and raised in Christianity in this lifetime and others, my circle of family and friends is completely penetrated with the history and energy of christianity. Born catholic and now part of a community of evangelical Bible-believing christians, it has been a challenge to trust my inner truth to follow this "mystical" path.

I have finally let go of the doctrine! and am finally at peace with that, I embrace myself as a mystical Christian. However my friends and family have not. They are my loved ones and community. How do I best serve them?

That is wonderful! And I agree that seeking to serve and to love is what is most important.

I am curious: Have you been able to share with your friends and family your interest in the Law of One? If so, I am curious how you were able to do that.

Well I also finally learned that it doesn't work to beat them over the head with a truth two-by-four. And by that I mean, my attitude that I know the truth and they do not. The attitude that I am superior in my wisdom and knowledge of Truth . It can be very unloving.

That's for sure!

I really admire Carla for being able to be open about her channeling work while attending church and participating in her church community. Maybe it's geographical, but in my area, I don't know of any mainstream churches that would be so embracing of a mystic, much less someone who channels!

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we hit them over the head with a 2x4. But how do we remain open about who we are and our own spiritual path, amongst those who would fear and condemn us?

I have a lot of Christian friends with whom I have never shared my spirituality. It isn't necessary in order to interact with them. Still, it would be nice to be open about my own path. I dislike having to hide it lest they become terrified and judgmental. Am I really serving them, by keeping my own perceptions of truth hidden? Would I serve them better by being more open?

Am I denying them an opportunity to learn to be less fearful and more accepting, when I acquiesce to their paradigm? Am I succumbing to fear of being judged myself, when I refrain from wearing crystal earrings when I'm around them? Am I perpetuating division and separation when I hide my Tarot books before a Christian guest visits my house?

Is it simple courtesy that is driving my actions, or am I being fearful and not trusting in their ability to evolve past the fear and judgment they've displayed in the past? Am I being part of the process facilitating their unfoldment (along with mine) or am I contributing to the negative aspects of their religion when I walk on eggshells around them?

Am I actually being elitist when I hide who I really am? If I didn't think my knowledge was somehow more 'pure' or less distorted, then why don't I share it with them freely, instead of only listening to their ideas in a 1-sided conversation? If both paths are equally valid, then why can't we have an open exchange of ideas? Why can't I be more open when I'm around them? If I truly value their path as valid, then what do I have to be concerned about?

It would be elitist and arrogant for me to tell them their path is wrong. But isn't it also elitist and arrogant for me to treat them as though they aren't smart enough or open-minded enough to accept me for who I am? Am I contributing to an elitist/judgmental attitude when I hold them to the past, expecting them to judge me for not being 'saved' according to their beliefs? If they judge me, since we are all mirrors, then is it I who am judging? If I am concerned about being judged, isn't that the flip side of judging? Should I just be open about my beliefs in reincarnation, etc. and be willing to accept whatever their reaction is? Is it a more loving approach to knowingly reinforce whatever limitations they already have? Am I not reinforcing limitations, when I nod my head in agreement, or neglect to mention other spiritual paths, when they tell me the Bible is the 'only' truth, and Jesus the 'only' way?

Am I missing an opportunity to serve them when I mumble "Oh I have a personal spiritual path" when they ask me what church I attend? Am I serving them when I make an excuse to decline their offer to attend their church? Am I neglecting to forgive them for the times they harassed me for not returning to their church after I attended a few times out of courtesy? Can I truly bring in my own unique spark of the Divine, into their domain? Or do I have to remain outside their church doors? Would they accept me as I am? My experience is that they don't. But why not? If the structure/institution really is inconsequential, why am I even asking these questions?

By thinking that I am extending courtesy to them when I allow them to believe I'm a Christian (rather than rocking their boat), am I really serving them? Or am I actually doing the very thing I'm trying to avoid, which is to be divisive or judgmental?

I'm reeling with the implications. I don't know the answer to these questions. That's why I am curious how you have handled this, in your life.

Our global community of humanity has so many unique sparks of the Creator, there are 2 billion Christians. How will we best serve the emergence of 4-D. Criticize their viewpoint? Point out their errors of intellect? I recently left a spiritual teaching that asked me to do that. It was separating and divisive.

Criticizing their viewpoint would be divisive.

Is there a way to share our viewpoint without criticizing theirs?

I would like to suggest that we approach these matters from our hearts, in a like-hearted and loving community of seekers.

It's an ongoing process, to balance the heart and intellect! That's why it's so valuable to have all these differing viewpoints. We can each learn from one another.

Note: Post has been edited.

[Shemaya]

Wow Monica you sure have me beat on the questions? I didn't count but that is alot of questions.

You were able to get right into my chakras and stir up the energy alot. I have probably thought about everything you just asked at one time or another on my path. And am working on it everyday, moment by moment.

I was just sharing my experience because I thought it would be helpful, because it appeared to me that the energies of the "lower room" were really being stirred up and I thought maybe if we added some heart energy we could get the house cleaned.

If I infringed I apologize to anyone that feels infringed upon. My intention was to be helpful by sharing my experience.

We sure can learn from one another, completely agree.

[Monica]

Wow Monica you sure have me beat on the questions? I didn't count but that is alot of questions.

You were able to get right into my chakras and stir up the energy alot. I have probably thought about everything you just asked at one time or another on my path. And am working on it everyday, moment by moment.

I was just sharing my experience because I thought it would be helpful, because it appeared to me that the energies of the "lower room" were really being stirred up and I thought maybe if we added some heart energy we could get the house cleaned.

If I infringed I apologize to anyone that feels infringed upon. My intention was to be helpful by sharing my experience.

We sure can learn from one another, completely agree.

Oh gosh, Shemaya, I am so sorry! I definitely didn't intend to make you uncomfortable with those questions! They weren't even directed at you, so much as just being prompted by your comments.

I didn't feel infringed upon and apologize for any discomfort my questions might have inadvertently caused you (or anyone else)!

Since you say you have asked all those questions yourself, then apparently these questions are common. (Though some of them never entered my mind until today!)

I don't expect answers from anyone. I am asking them because they've got me befuddled. I thought it might be of value for us to explore these questions together. With your Christian background, you could offer some valuable insights! In fact your sharing your experience has already been helpful, which is why I was hoping we might help each other with these issues.

[Lavazza]

I just wanted to take a moment to thank each of the participants of this thread. All of your comments are helping me better view religion and it's function as I have not considered in detail previously. This epitomizes the usefulness of this forum. I love you all.

~Lavazza

[Monica]

I just wanted to take a moment to thank each of the participants of this thread. All of your comments are helping me better view religion and it's function as I have not considered in detail previously. This epitomizes the usefulness of this forum. I love you all.

Thanks Lavazza! I'm glad to hear our ponderings are useful to someone.

I've been pondering the questions I asked...and started thinking back to when I was a Christian.

One of my sisters created quite a scandal when she left the Catholic church to become a born-again Christian. I still remember my dad spluttering with indignation. He believed she was 'fallen away' and would no longer enter the 'gates of Heaven.' Meanwhile, my sister thought my family were all idol-worshipers because they prayed the rosary and to Mary.

Later, I became a born-again Christian too, and then was scandalized again when a boyfriend gave me The Prophet to read...and again when another boyfriend told me that reincarnation was in the Bible.

Having had past life memories that I had conveniently swept under the rug, I felt frightened. He then proceeded to tell me all about Edgar Cayce, and loaned me a book.

I was still scared, but very intrigued. Since Cayce was a Christian, I was able to bridge the gap between my religious foundation and these new, 'radical' ideas.

Excited, I told my born-again Christian sister, expecting to share something wonderful. Instead, she told me I was dabbling in 'satanism' and that Edgar Cayce wasn't really a Christian, but had been 'satanically misled.'

For several years, I went back and forth...I felt that the Cayce info filled in so many missing pieces, and made such perfect sense, and of course the past life memories had clarity and definition at last. But I would sometimes feel gripped by fear and confusion. I allowed a pastor to convince me to get rid of my Led Zeppelin albums (which I later regretted!) and once I even threw away a beautiful painting of the The Magician, after she told me that the Tarot was 'evil witchcraft.' I stopped short of burning all my New Age books, but I did throw a few into a dumpster (also later regretted).

Where did that fear come from? It certainly wasn't from reading Edgar Cayce books! The fear came from the indoctrination! I was totally ok, even excited, about my new discoveries. Only when the pastors judged me did I feel fear. I had been programmed to obey authority. Isn't that an STS mechanism for control? I experienced fear when the 'authorities' tried to hold me back from my naturally unfolding process. It took at least a decade for me to get past that fear!

It was a process for me. Looking back, I am very grateful that some people had the courage to speak up to me. If they hadn't, it might have taken me a lot longer to shed the negative indoctrination.

In light of my own experience, I sometimes wonder if I am doing a disservice to hold back from offering the same sort of promptings those boyfriends offered me. I now have fear of triggering fear in others! I don't want my sweet neighbor to feel fear if she sees my books, so I keep all esoteric books on a bookshelf in the bedroom, out of view.

But what if those boyfriends had shied away from my fear? Did they trigger the fear, or just expose it and release it?

I would never take a Tarot book, or the Law of One books, or whatever, into my neighbor's house. But must I hide them when she visits? Am I disrespecting her narrow doctrine if I am open about my own spirituality in my own home?

Everyone's process is different, of course. My neighbor might never be interested in Edgar Cayce, much less the Law of One. And if she is, she will undoubtedly find it somehow. But am I denying her the opportunity, and thus the choice, by essentially hiding something that might be beneficial for her?

[unity100]

I can't argue with any of that. You're right.

Ali is also right.

...in that many people do manage to find the love, despite the negativity...many people have somehow managed to create great beauty from within such a negative structure.

entities who are inclined to find love, or in the path of positive, would find love wherever they are. the religion doesnt have anything to do with that.

the impact and result of what they find would change, depending on the circumstances. the purity of the result would change depending on the circumstances.

From the STS perspective, it's negative. But they too serve the Creator. It's their job to provide catalyst. Ultimately, it's all catalyst. While many people have not utilized this particular catalyst and ended up negative or confused, stuck in 3D, others have utilized the catalyst and transcended the negativity.

participating in a negative hierarchy is not experiencing a catalyst. catalyst would be the religions' rigid control, and negativity. not the act of participating in them. if you join the ranks, even if you dont participate, you will have participated in empowering a negative hierarchy.

for, as we know from the excerpts that talk about negative hierarchies in Ra material, the empowerment of the negative enslaver is proportional to the power of the enslaved. enslavement, as far as i understand, has infinite levels as anything else -> enslavement doesnt need to be how emperor palpatine subdues anakin skywalker. if, a negative controlling entity or group, or concept, in any way whatsoever, makes one entity accept their domination partially, they would still reap the benefit of that partial subjugation. 1 billion people subjecting themselves partially to the power and principles of a controlling hierarchy that is influenced by a negative outside source, i reckon, would still provide noticeable power to that negative outside source.

So then, as you address in the next part of your post, the question becomes: Is this efficient? Which is what I think you're trying to address here. We don't need to debate whether some souls have managed to create beauty and even polarize STO while being immersed in traditional religions. Neither do we need to debate that those particular religions were seeded by STS, since Ra tells us that.

The question then becomes, how can we reconcile the situation?

those souls were already 4 d harvested entities 21,500 years or so before inception of any caanan religion on earth, in case we are talking about various saints and apostles like theresa, augustine etc.

i think you cant reconcile everything. and, one shouldnt try to reconcile everything either. that is the fine point here. it is, i repeat, naive and rather stubborn to not let go of conditioned philosophies or beliefs, despite one is treading and advocating a path of increasing freedom, letting go of all ego related concepts, even physical body and such.

On the one hand, I see what Ali is seeing: the control is slipping. I see new movements in Christian churches spreading like wildfire...like my friend's Universalism movement, like numerous peace movements, alternative health movements, movements to seek understanding with other religions...these Christians, Muslims, etc. are seeking to expand their paradigm and doing a great job, a joy to behold!

what we know from Ra text, regarding the nature of negative society complexes, and actually what we can gleam from this planet's history (that we know), negative organizations, societies constantly experience entropy, and fall apart. because they are not harmonious in nature, it is hard for them to maintain coherence and cooperation continually. it is natural, if there is not a strong controlling authority, for them to spawn.

but then again that doesnt mean that a peaceful revolution is occurring.

But it's the ones still trapped in the middle I am concerned about, and, if I'm understanding you correctly (unity100), you are too. These lovely souls truly do want to polarize STO. They are doing the best they can. But they keep meeting a resistance, because of the "authority" who is telling them what to believe. They are being held back. I know some of these people would totally open up and just blossom, if not for these restraining authorities. It is on this point I agree with you. The institutions, being rooted in STS control, are making it unnecessarily difficult for these lights to shine brightly.

my concern is entities that are of higher frequency or wanderer or more advanced in nature, and still being burdened or hampered by these negative influenced conditionings and dogmas in varying degrees, proportionally decreasing their manifestation of whatever they have came here for. as we know from the talk about negative influences' targets in Ra text, that, wanderers and higher frequency entities are priority for negative influences.

I agree in theory. But how do we do that, without imposing on their free will? How do we get past the conditioning? And do we even have the right to help another-self get past the conditioning?

i think those you speak of will choose what they will and 'help' should not be taken to them unless they ask and what. as i said, my concern is about those who had accessed and called purer thoughts and philosophies and got the means (like Ra text), but still insist on not letting go of the less pure ones now.

What do you suggest? How do we encourage purer information, without imposing on the free will of others?

cant do anything until they want and ask for it.

No, yours is merely an opinion unity. One that generalizes and rejects whole tribes of people. It's not including it's excluding. Not towards the one but towards separation.

I don't value that particular opinion. I see it all around me, and like those people you don't actually give me the impression of knowing what you talk about when you take the word Islam in your mouth.

im not giving any 'impressions'. i know islam. i studied it. if, i take the word islam in my mouth and provide examples, history, and citations, the picture would be much more dire, and there would be no doubt to the connotations and tones of that religion. those wouldnt be my 'opinions' too, but rather be the 'unchanged' word of 'god' that is written in stone in its holy book, and the second tier rules which come from its prophet's sayings and life. the former of this, is unobjectionable and unquestionable in islam. however, these would 'offend' you to utmost degree, and probably shake your opinion of that religion.

you cant 'include' everything. because, there are things and entities that do not want to be included. just like how the confederation was not able to 'include' the negative attack that was directed to them by orion groups, because that would mean enslavement and end of their positivity.

for things that do not want to be included, the only way is to wait until they are mature enough to be included and actually can be included. this is what this universe seems to employ with the entities leaning to negative path.

[Ali Quadir]

Hey Monica, my take is that you should not worry too much about his. These events that push us towards discovering our paths tend to happen. I think there's little we can do to cause or avoid them. If your neighbor has this on her path and you're the one to introduce her... It'll happen..

You are obviously in a position where it is wise to be careful about what you expose, what pops out cannot be put back. So be smart and use questions to guide and test people.

The witches of old europe are rumored to have used a system where they sought three admissions of nonjudgmental interest before they would expose anything. Be careful a clearly guiding question is actually a statement.

This is unfortunately where religion can be quite a pain in the rear. It is they who lost the path. And exchanged the quest for Christ consciousness for obedience to a fear. Being scared is not the same as being evil. But scared people can do bad things. So be careful.

[Monica]

Being scared is not the same as being evil. But scared people can do bad things. So be careful.

Exactly.

[Shemaya]

I just wanted to take a moment to thank each of the participants of this thread. All of your comments are helping me better view religion and it's function as I have not considered in detail previously. This epitomizes the usefulness of this forum. I love you all.

~Lavazza

Thank you Lavazza! I'm glad you posted.

Have you been able to share with your friends and family your interest in the Law of One? If so, I am curious how you were able to do that.

No Monica I have not shared much about the Law of One with anyone except my youngest sister...who is 8 years younger than me, and has a dual-activated body I believe. She is the only one who understands when I talk about these things, and she is open and wants to discuss and share. Everyone else in my family is fully adherent to the doctrine of their faith as taught by the patriarchy, including my wonderful husband, who is truly a great guy, I love him dearly, and he has no interest in the big questions, or the truth about the workings of the STS polarized entities on our planet. He is very service oriented and does many acts of service in his life.

It has been interesting!!

When I started to see the big picture and understand, I thought it was my job to convince others in my life to get on the path, and discover the truths that I was discovering. What a rude awakening…it doesn’t work that way. As I processed these issues and got more into the Law of One I realized that so many of the people I knew in mainstream religions are so polarized STO, that it wasn’t really necessary that I convince them of anything, They were already where they needed to be for the harvest. Me trying to evangelize or convince them unsolicited of my truth was just going to depolarize me. I started to realize that my job was to be a light worker, by being myself, as purely and fully as I can. Which means chakras open and bright , energy flowing, and not suppressing, repressing, or oppressing others with my energy.


This all started for me 3 years ago, my awakening process was clearly pre-determined by my higher Self exactly when and how it would happen. Looking back I can see the evidence of a pretty well-coordinated plan to wake me up.

These events that push us towards discovering our paths tend to happen. I think there's little we can do to cause or avoid them. If your neighbor has this on her path and you're the one to introduce her... It'll happen..

Yes that is how it was for me, I can attest to that. !!

[Monica]

When I started to see the big picture and understand, I thought it was my job to convince others in my life to get on the path, and discover the truths that I was discovering. What a rude awakening…it doesn’t work that way.

I had the same experience! I realized that I had retained the 'must evangelize' pattern and it sure didn't work!

As I processed these issues and got more into the Law of One I realized that so many of the people I knew in mainstream religions are so polarized STO, that it wasn’t really necessary that I convince them of anything, They were already where they needed to be for the harvest.

Agreed!

Me trying to evangelize or convince them unsolicited of my truth was just going to depolarize me.

And maybe depolarize them too, by triggering fear.

I started to realize that my job was to be a light worker, by being myself, as purely and fully as I can. Which means chakras open and bright , energy flowing, and not suppressing, repressing, or oppressing others with my energy.

Agreed! I'm still wondering whether about the effects of suppressing parts of who we are (what we believe) in their presence.

---

entities who are inclined to find love, or in the path of positive, would find love wherever they are. the religion doesnt have anything to do with that.

I agree with the first statement but not the second. I don't think we can exclude religion as an influence. It's a catalyst, like everything else in 3D.

If you think religion can negatively affect entities, then why couldn't it also positively affect entities?

Or are you saying that the people immersed in religion, but who have found the positive, can influence others positively, but the institution of religion itself can't? Is that what you are saying?

participating in a negative hierarchy is not experiencing a catalyst. catalyst would be the religions' rigid control, and negativity. not the act of participating in them. if you join the ranks, even if you dont participate, you will have participated in empowering a negative hierarchy.

...and creating catalyst for others, rather than being affected by the catalyst?

Or, might it be both?

for, as we know from the excerpts that talk about negative hierarchies in Ra material, the empowerment of the negative enslaver is proportional to the power of the enslaved. enslavement, as far as i understand, has infinite levels as anything else -> enslavement doesnt need to be how emperor palpatine subdues anakin skywalker. if, a negative controlling entity or group, or concept, in any way whatsoever, makes one entity accept their domination partially, they would still reap the benefit of that partial subjugation. 1 billion people subjecting themselves partially to the power and principles of a controlling hierarchy that is influenced by a negative outside source, i reckon, would still provide noticeable power to that negative outside source.

That's disconcerting.

However, the control isn't total.

those souls were already 4 d harvested entities 21,500 years or so before inception of any caanan religion on earth, in case we are talking about various saints and apostles like theresa, augustine etc.

Hmmm....good point. Do we know that those 'saints' were all harvested in the previous cycle?

my concern is entities that are of higher frequency or wanderer or more advanced in nature, and still being burdened or hampered by these negative influenced conditionings and dogmas in varying degrees, proportionally decreasing their manifestation of whatever they have came here for. as we know from the talk about negative influences' targets in Ra text, that, wanderers and higher frequency entities are priority for negative influences.

So you aren't proposing that we cram the Law of One down the throats of religious fundamentalists?

i think those you speak of will choose what they will and 'help' should not be taken to them unless they ask and what. as i said, my concern is about those who had accessed and called purer thoughts and philosophies and got the means (like Ra text), but still insist on not letting go of the less pure ones now.

Thank you for the clarification!

[gharghur]

When a subject, during a conversation, arises that you may shed some Light upon, do not hesitate to do so.
However, try not to infringe upon the others free will, or belief system.
As you know, certain people are open to certain things and closed to others.
This is something like talking to people with a language that is on their level of comprehension.
Everyone is balanced and in potential.
They, however, bring certain biases into this incarnation while experiencing the catalysts they had planned for their particular level of experience.
If the catalyst you offer is/was on their agenda they will ask questions.
If not, they will just change the subject.
Offering Light, at the appropriate time, in like planting a seed.
The seed needs to be nourished by that particular entity. If not in that moment, maybe in some moment to come.
namaste

[unity100]

I agree with the first statement but not the second. I don't think we can exclude religion as an influence. It's a catalyst, like everything else in 3D.

If you think religion can negatively affect entities, then why couldn't it also positively affect entities?

Or are you saying that the people immersed in religion, but who have found the positive, can influence others positively, but the institution of religion itself can't? Is that what you are saying?

because religion is a control tool.

we broadly categorize many things in the group of 'religion', but, when we look them in detail, numerous ones from the eastern philosophies like buddhism, taoism and so on, are more philosophies than religions. ie, they are unlike others. they do not subject you to any organization, religious hierarchy in their core. there may come up entities who do it with their own incentive, creating hierarchical groups within themselves, but if you look at the core of the philosophy, there is no ordering authority (god) and there is no appointed emissary (prophet). entities are free to come and go as they please, think as they please, and develop their own understandings. almost nothing is mandated.

when we exclude such philosophies, what's left in the religion genus becomes exclusively the hierarchical philosophical organizations that control people. it is rather a stretch to call most of them philosophical too.

'but religion isnt just that organization' -> no it is. take out the 'turn the other cheek' and 'love each other' message from christianity. what is left ? you dont have turn the other cheek, and love, in islam even. similarly judaism. i wont even touch the subject of ancient central american religions.

...and creating catalyst for others, rather than being affected by the catalyst?

Or, might it be both?

the logic you propose here is similar to incarnating in a negative world, and trying to be catalyst for others and oneself, whereas positive worlds which fit with the core understanding are available for incarnation.

That's disconcerting.

However, the control isn't total.

there is no total control anywhere. through the information in Ra text regarding negative path, we know that negative path needs some freedom to exist, even to be able to polarize negatively.

in the context we are talking about, i think the source which is trying to negativize this world may get similar results from partially controlling 1 billion entities or more ( a whopping number ) to what it would be having if they totally controlled 5 million entities. at least, the hampering of the positive progress would happen.

Hmmm....good point. Do we know that those 'saints' were all harvested in the previous cycle?

we know of 2 that is given as examples in Ra text. all the beautified people in catholic religion, we cant know. we cant know either, whether they were people really of high frequency or not, or even deserved any beautification or not, regardless of their actions. we cant be sure.

however Ra makes a small generalization about them, ie, saying their preferences made incarnating in these religious organizations desirable. whether they speak of these two, or all of them, i dont know.

So you aren't proposing that we cram the Law of One down the throats of religious fundamentalists?

nooo. i think they wouldnt accept it either.

[Ali Quadir]

we broadly categorize many things in the group of 'religion', but, when we look them in detail, numerous ones from the eastern philosophies like buddhism, taoism and so on, are more philosophies than religions. ie, they are unlike others. they do not subject you to any organization, religious hierarchy in their core.

This doesn't agree with reality at all. Buddhist religious structure is a highly organized hierarchy. There are absolute leaders. For example the Karmapa, and the Dalai Lama. All wonderful people, very wise and loving. But make no mistake they are very much in charge.

I love Buddhism. I think it's one of the best preserved systems of knowledge concerning the divine there is. Why do you think that is? Because there are no rules?

but if you look at the core of the philosophy, there is no ordering authority (god) and there is no appointed emissary (prophet).

Not only are there gods and demons in Buddhism. There also exist various saints. And the prophets are essentially the holy men that still lead Buddhism today.

If we talk about authority, the Karmapa is the reincarnation of the buddha, and you're the reincarnation of John Smith from bloody Croydon... Does that feel like an equal power base?

entities are free to come and go as they please, think as they please, and develop their own understandings. almost nothing is mandated.

The four noble truths and the eightfold paths are NOT optional. It's true that in the west no one will hold you to it, but make no mistake, the suffering caused in the west by overzealous Christians is comparable to the suffering Buddhist warriors have caused in the past..

Religion is a reality that encompasses billions of people and many centuries. It does not fit in broad sweeping statements. You're trying to define one part of human nature as part of one religion and another part of human nature as part of another religion..

This is obviously nonsensical, people are all the same. There will be loving Muslims and violent Buddhists. Even though ALL their religions teach peace. Buddhist monks are on average without a doubt the best fighters among all of the monks.. Ever wondered why that is? Ever wondered why there are committees against child sexual abuse in Buddhist monasteries?

We don't like to think of Buddhists this way. But the truth is they're as human as the rest of us. A friend of mine has identified a principle... "The scumbag factor is a constant"... Meaning that no matter what selection of people you take, after a while a certain constant percentage will become scumbags...

Remember the point I made earlier, that religion is always better on the other side of the earth? I think you demonstrated that Unity.

[AnthroHeart]

Ali, are you referring to what they call a Matreya (if that's spelled right). Someone told me that's the highest you can go in Buddhism. I don't know much about that though.