The Sun is Not What we We Have Been Told....

[zenmaster]

When the consumer's appreciation of actual science is lacking and any notion of it comes from science fiction and conspiracy websites, that's a tall order.

[reeay]

I dunno. Engaging in intuitive and rational modes of investigation, and integrating those two functions seems to yield more robust arguments/perspectives.

[Sagittarius]

I dunno. Engaging in intuitive and rational modes of investigation, and integrating those two functions seems to yield more robust arguments/perspectives.

I think Zen's argument is that scientists have been and do currently used intuition.

Where as most people who are not scientists specifically from the new age movement associate intuition with vague notions of fantasy that they have either seen in there mind or picked up from various mediums usually sci-fi tv shows and culture. Instead of evaluating what they have seen and dissecting the archetypes/symbols which are actually useful to self and others in experience they hold onto the fantasy and create ways to escape from actually doing true spiritual work.

Then they turn around and say they have mastered there desires and are ego-less yet still cling onto entirely self created drama's, instead of being the hero against the oppressive boss they are the hero against the oppressive sts reptilians from nibiru. Instead of seeing the mechanisms of the mind they simply trade one trap for the other.

[zenmaster]

I dunno. Engaging in intuitive and rational modes of investigation, and integrating those two functions seems to yield more robust arguments/perspectives.

I think Zen's argument is that scientists have been and do currently used intuition.

Yes and without an appreciation for how science may actually be conducted, there is a fallback to what might resonate from entertainment media. The "bootstraps" of society are integral with our current legacy modalities and what is practical. Just as an individual must remove distortions in order to transcend, so must a society. A bridge anchored in the actual present must always be used to reveal something new. "Mind", be it planetary or personal, must be prepared for new experience through acknowledgement and acceptance of current experience (with all of its possibly undesirable conventions).

[reeay]

My response was more in reference to conspiracy and such - how do we know what we know? Because I resonate with the idea? Because my guides told me so? Those are highly useful forms of knowing sometimes but not sufficient.

[zenmaster]

My response was more in reference to conspiracy and such - how do we know what we know? Because I resonate with the idea? Because my guides told me so? Those are highly useful forms of knowing sometimes but not sufficient.

"Conspiracy and such" is a recognizable meme that will eventually outgrow its usefulness as distortions are removed. The ability to consider "that which resonates" has its beginnings which need to be explored just as any new faculty of awareness offers something novel of self to acknowledge and accept.
It's not just how do we know what we know, it's also how do we know what we don't know - also when, where and why. Becoming conscious of what informs experience is part of understanding the mind. When the nature of that mind is eventually seen is more primary than say, that meme which resonates with posited, yet truly speculative circumstance, then we are capable of more discernment because more of the self is participating.

Insufficiency is not apparent if what is suggested is compelling enough and matches current suspicions, desires, sense of balance, and general bias. Indeed, despite actual facts, the conspiracy-associated narrative is often used as a vehicle to (mostly unconsciously) promote one's own suspicions, desires, sense of balance, and general bias - however insufficient those may be. So the stories are often used as an attempt to communicate with self by providing an indirect yet safe way to address themes which have relevance to being deprived, resolving inner conflict and a need for transcendence.

[Monica]

"Conspiracy and such" is a recognizable meme that will eventually outgrow its usefulness as distortions are removed. The ability to consider "that which resonates" has its beginnings which need to be explored just as any new faculty of awareness offers something novel of self to acknowledge and accept.
It's not just how do we know what we know, it's also how do we know what we don't know - also when, where and why. Becoming conscious of what informs experience is part of understanding the mind. When the nature of that mind is eventually seen is more primary than say, that meme which resonates with posited, yet truly speculative circumstance, then we are capable of more discernment because more of the self is participating.

Insufficiency is not apparent if what is suggested is compelling enough and matches current suspicions, desires, sense of balance, and general bias. Indeed, despite actual facts, the conspiracy-associated narrative is often used as a vehicle to (mostly unconsciously) promote one's own suspicions, desires, sense of balance, and general bias - however insufficient those may be. So the stories are often used as an attempt to communicate with self by providing an indirect yet safe way to address themes which have relevance to being deprived, resolving inner conflict and a need for transcendence.

Very true! And it can be very widespread. For example, the 'conspiracy theory' about 911 - the one about 19 guys pulling off the feat of military failures and the laws of physics being suspended - satisfies the public's need to trust in an authority (government) and have a convenient 'enemy' while reinforcing their bias towards separation, fear and violence, while ignoring the actual forensic evidence which easily proves the mainstream 'conspiracy theory' wrong.