Q'uo: The harvest began in 1987

[Parsons]

Remember, this was all slated to have been said and done by 1998. My apologies if this sounds "arrogant" or "uncompassionate" but we have already been granted an extra 15 years of "overtime". If somebody hasn't taken advantage of all that extra catalyst by now, I say: too sad, too bad. Better luck next time.

Sounds selfish to me ;¬)

...

The second point is why we're here. It's the point of being a Wanderer - to help others make the harvest. Wanting to cut the time short in a 'too bad' fashion seems quite backwards/STS to me.

I dont think its as selfish as you think. Is it selfish for the proverbial clock to strike midnight? Its like being angry at the car that hit you and not the driver for a poor judgement call. IMO of course.

I just see this is as last call at a bar (although I have NEVER experienced a last call firsthand... bars 'ain't my thing, lol). "You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here" Perfect song comes to mind that was most likely made for "us" (wanderers) in reference to the harvest specifically. Listen to the lyrics and read between the lines just a little. (Im like 90+% positive on this one).


Also to those saying nothing significant will happen around summer 2012 and/or winter solstice 2012, I pose this challenge: are you considering the effin' quarantine will be lifted? I'm not sure which other channels have stated it, but I know I was watching a Bashar channeled session where he was talking about the quarantine being lifted(with a quite humorous candor, I might add.)

[AnthroHeart]

Yay, no more quarantine.

[Parsons]

Yay, no more quarantine.

Found it again: He starts talking about the end of quarantine around 1:40 if you're impatient.

[Tenet Nosce]

You've been doing it for XX,000 thousand years, a few more won't hurt ;¬)

Yes, sure. I suppose I would "survive". (Whatever that really means!) Yet I would offer...

Ra: This distortion is not in any case necessary.

Maybe it is time to learn to polarize through peace, love, and joy, rather than war, hate, and sorrow. That was, is, and ever shall be, possible in a 3D environment. Part of the manipulation here in this particular 3D environment is the idea that suffering is "necessary" or "good for us," or that we "did something to deserve it."

Q'uo mentions that we'll be gifted more and more opportunities to polarise in the direction we have chosen. That can only be a good thing if you're genuinely interested in serving others. If you're fed up here, think about what that entails. Who are you thinking of? Food for thought :¬)

This is a good point. Though I am not really coming from escapism. If I may be so bold- I consider myself to be a wanderer. Which means... I am not here primarily to help others polarize. I am here to assist with the harvest of those who, of their own accord and free-will choices, and acceptance of carefully constructed catalyst, have already polarized.

We are not the Gardeners. We are the Harvesters.

I know people who hate people and love animals. I know people who love people and hate animals. I know people who love both, and I know people who love neither. I know people who love a few people, and hate many more. I know people who love some animals, and hate others.

There are no limits, the possibilities are infinite.

Yes, we are all one, but that's taking it down too many fractal levels; the point is that people predominantly love conditionally. They serve others (choose love) in some contexts, and themselves (fear) in others.

Selective service sounds STS to me.

Wanting to serve others does not mean one would choose prolonging the suffering just so they could.

So then... what would be the point of prolonging the suffering post-2012, again? You've lost me here. It looks like you have contradicted yourself to me.

Look... say we have another 250 - 1000 years of cohabitation between negatively, positively, and non-polarized people. Will that really make a difference? I would conjecture that however many years would pass, and we would still pretty much end up in the same place we are now. Only with the positive more positive, the negative more negative, and the sinkhole even deeper than it is now. Then what? Yet another extension or "time lateral"? Another intervention? What's The Plan, Stan?

250 years, 2500 years, 25000 years, 250000 years. It doesn't matter. There will always be "somebody" who was right on the edge, but didn't quite make graduation. There will always be "somebody" who, at the very last second, pulls their head out of their rear and cries, "But if only I had more time!" Little did they realize, they had more than enough time. They just squandered it on distractions. Hopefully, this somewhat harsh lesson is what will ensure that they don't squander the next 25,000 years as well.

I didn't set Creation up this way... why should I lament over it?

Moreover, I don't recall ever taking a "bodhisattva vow". I came here to do a job, and go home. Just like millions upon millions of other wanderers. Our job is to assist with the harvest, not hang around indefinitely until every last straggling human crosses the 51% mark. We are here in response to a call, which means our response-ability is to those who made the call. No more, no less.

One could also offer the notion that it's selfish to want it to be peaceful post 2012, as that's removing the opportunity of choice/catalyst to entities here which may benefit from it. 3D Earth is 3D Earth. It offers (hard) lessons and choices. That's the point, and that's why many incarnate here :¬)

But this is not what the Creator intended for 3D Earth to be, and it is not what Gaia intended for it to be. Is humanity really "better off" for having lived the last 75000 years in a near-perpetual state of war? Is fratricide and enslavement a "good idea" because they can result in positive polarization? The ends don't justify the means. That is STS thinking.

(Those are rhetorical questions, and I don't perceive your thinking to really be along those lines. I am just trying to make a point here. )

Remember, there are infinite spheres to incarnate on. If souls want an easy trip, they can choose it. If they want a hard one, like this place, they can choose it.

Fair enough. Though I am not entirely sure that every soul has that kind of choice. I think for many souls, they came here long ago expecting one thing, and got handed something very different. I don't think they can simply "choose a different planet" quite yet.

Sounds selfish to me ;¬)

But the concern is not for myself. The concern is for others who are being held hostage to the indifference of the majority. We are in a consensus reality. There are many wonderful things "waiting in the wings" for humanity, but they cannot be brought forth until it would no longer be a violation of free will. This involves removal of those who are choosing not to choose to another sphere, where they can continue exploring the lessons of apathy and indifference without infringement by those who desire something more.

The second point is why we're here. It's the point of being a Wanderer - to help others make the harvest. Wanting to cut the time short in a 'too bad' fashion seems quite backwards/STS to me.

But the time hasn't been "cut short". Quite to the contrary, it has been most graciously extended, and everybody has already received more than ample catalyst necessary to result in positive polarization. And we have a whole 'nother year of it coming, just to make crystal clear where everybody stands. Or sleeps, as the case may be.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but it sounds to me like you feel everybody here on earth is truly striving for spiritual growth. There are large swaths of humanity who couldn't care less about serving others, and/or pay little more than lip service to spirituality. And the more catalyst they are given, the deeper they dig in their heels and fold their arms in resistance. They have refused the choice again, and again, and again. After a certain point, it just sounds like throwing good catalyst after bad to me. These folks need to go back to square one. It really would be for the best, in the humble opinion of this 6D dropout.

Is that not why we came here, after all? :¬)

Well, sure. I'm not trying to take myself out of the game. I am saying, let's get ON with it already!

[Tenet Nosce]

May I suggest to all: Read these very carefully. Word. By. Word. See if after-words they still mean what you previously thought they meant. What do these responses really say about the time-frame of harvest, and the true purpose of wanderers? Look closely. If you have been previously "skimming over" these, you might have missed something. Ra is not chatty- when they speak every single word/phrase has a carefully chosen purpose.

Questioner: If a Wanderer should be successfully infringed upon, shall I say, by the Orion group, what would happen to this Wanderer when harvest came?

Ra: I am Ra. If the Wanderer entity demonstrated through action a negative orientation towards other-selves it would be as we have said before, caught into the planetary vibration and, when harvested, possibly repeat again the master cycle of third density as a planetary entity.

Questioner: I would just include the question as to why the time of harvest is selected by so many Wanderers as time for incarnation?

Ra: I am Ra. There are several reasons for incarnation during harvest. They may be divided by the terms self and other-self.

The overriding reason for the offering of these Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow in incarnative states is the possibility of aiding other-selves by the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions and the probability of offering catalyst to other-selves which will increase the harvest.

There are two other reasons for choosing this service which have to do with the self.

The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher density catalyst.

The final reason is within the mind/body/spirit totality or the social memory complex totality which may judge that an entity or members of a societal entity can make use of third-density catalyst to recapitulate a learning/teaching which is adjudged to be less than perfect. This especially applies to those entering into and proceeding through sixth-density wherein the balance between compassion and wisdom is perfected.

In regard to that last sentence, I freely admit that I need to balance my wisdom with compassion. I'm still workin' on it, but I've come a long way. What I don't observe are too many compassion-dominant wanderers admitting to a need to balance out their compassion with wisdom. I wonder why that is?

Another possibly interesting and/or significant note... NONE of the above linked word/phrases are found in Session 17.

[Sagittarius]

Perhaps the reason we cannot understand or pinpoint information about the exact mechanics of the harvest because it is impossible to do so within our current bodies. We cannot understand the infinity.

I would think contemplating the harvest is a major catalyst meant for the very small group of people we are all apart of. No doubt our perceptions will change greatly this year.

We are here right now for 2012. Whether it be through our physical actions or just our light feeding the earth's transformation. Think about your own personal sacrifices you have undergone due to this volunteering. Feel proud that we are right here right now in this moment spreading positivity and love to every cell that surrounds us.

[zenmaster]

So will it be smooth sailing after 2012, with regard to catalyst?

Well I would hope so! How depressing must it feel for one to think they have the "rest of their lives" to keep getting pummeled with this intense catalyst.

I always thought learning about oneself was interesting, not depressing. Considering it is a rare opportunity to learn 100 times faster than higher densities, seems like a worthwhile investment. This is a goldmine if you happen to be a goldminer.

[Ens Entium]

To clarify.. the 'learning about oneself' comes through seeing those things about yourself that you get to express or are required to express or are shown in forming an appropriate response to catalyst?

[Namaste]

I dont think its as selfish as you think. Is it selfish for the proverbial clock to strike midnight? Its like being angry at the car that hit you and not the driver for a poor judgement call. IMO of course.

...

Also to those saying nothing significant will happen around summer 2012 and/or winter solstice 2012, I pose this challenge: are you considering the effin' quarantine will be lifted? I'm not sure which other channels have stated it, but I know I was watching a Bashar channeled session where he was talking about the quarantine being lifted(with a quite humorous candor, I might add.)

The term selfish was used in reply to TN's previous notion of it, hence the cheeky wink afterwards. It was merely a reflection.

I always thought learning about oneself was interesting, not depressing. Considering it is a rare opportunity to learn 100 times faster than higher densities, seems like a worthwhile investment. This is a goldmine if you happen to be a goldminer.

My sentiments exactly. It's a gift to be alive at this time.

This is a good point. Though I am not really coming from escapism. If I may be so bold- I consider myself to be a wanderer. Which means... I am not here primarily to help others polarize. I am here to assist with the harvest of those who, of their own accord and free-will choices, and acceptance of carefully constructed catalyst, have already polarized.

We are not the Gardeners. We are the Harvesters.

We're not the harvesters, there's a fleet of beings in charge of that. We come here to help increase the vibration of that planet, and we do so by our own energies.

Your being here, as long as you offer an STO state of being, helps others polarise.

The overriding reason for the offering of these Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow in incarnative states is the possibility of aiding other-selves by the lightening of the planetary consciousness distortions and the probability of offering catalyst to other-selves which will increase the harvest.

Selective service sounds STS to me

That's my point entirely. I'll repeat: it's not STO or STS, it's STS and STO. If someone is 55% STO, then by definition they must be 45% STS. It's a balance.

So then... what would be the point of prolonging the suffering post-2012, again? You've lost me here. It looks like you have contradicted yourself to me.

Not at all. You seem to either ignore, or get confused over what I type. I do not mean this offensively, by the way, rather an observation :¬)

Third density IS the density of polarity. That's it's purpose!

To clarify: it's not prolonging suffering, it's incarnational experience. We need not label things 'good or bad'. Life is eternal. All is valid for those that need it.

The solar system spirals into an area of the galaxy which aids the creation of the 4D sphere, completed by 21/12/2012. No where in the material does it state (or even hint) that only 51% STO beings will exist in third density after this time.

Moreover, I don't recall ever taking a "bodhisattva vow". I came here to do a job, and go home. Just like millions upon millions of other wanderers. Our job is to assist with the harvest, not hang around indefinitely until every last straggling human crosses the 51% mark. We are here in response to a call, which means our response-ability is to those who made the call. No more, no less.

As I said before, I'm not trying to convince you of anything else. I posted my thoughts here, and you have been questioning me about your beleifs, and why it can't be so.

Let it go :¬)

[native]

We're not the harvesters, there's a fleet of beings in charge of that.

Totally disagree. I'll be making a thread about this subject over the weekend. As you say, it has to do with offering our vibration.

[zenmaster]

To clarify.. the 'learning about oneself' comes through seeing those things about yourself that you get to express or are required to express or are shown in forming an appropriate response to catalyst?

Learning about self tends to result in becoming more conscious or accepting of oneself and of catalyst. The more conscious one is, the more efficient the response to catalyst is and the higher the level of catalyst may be recognized and processed.

When we talk about determined requirements or appropriateness, that would be a kind of secondary assessment. For example, from the circumstantial standpoint of some imposed limitations, which are often transient and illusory. I think more important to learning is recognition of catalyst, for example one's discomfort. This relative imbalance, perhaps a vague nagging feeling, is constantly informing us of worthwhile learning opportunities. These feelings may be explored in order to learn what the disposition is suggesting about ourselves.

"...in the chance to remember that which has been lost in the forgetting there is a nimiety of opportunity for positive polarization."

[Tenet Nosce]

I always thought learning about oneself was interesting, not depressing. Considering it is a rare opportunity to learn 100 times faster than higher densities, seems like a worthwhile investment. This is a goldmine if you happen to be a goldminer.

My sentiments exactly. It's a gift to be alive at this time.

That is true, but beside my point. The point is that wanderers are here partially to "ease the burden" of all this intense catalyst by taking some of it on themselves. And why is the catalyst so intense? Because it is being denied by those whom it was intended for. We cannot learn/teach for others. They must do the work themselves.

Wanderers don't need this catalyst. Our taking this on was/is optional and the point was to help others to not be so overwhelmed so they might have some kind of a chance at using the catalyst positively. But to refuse it completely, that is a totally different issue. That is making it "somebody else's problem" kind of like how so many people expect "the government" to pay them an unemployment wage or pay their medical bills, etc. Nevermind that "government" is just proxy for "your neighbor".

Yes, at some level those things are in place to help people out when they are in a tough spot. But when society becomes dependent upon them, when they become a crutch, there is a serious problem. When people feel entitled that their neighbor pick up the slack for their own lack of financial responsibility, that is a problem.

Same thing is going on with all this catalyst flying around. So I can use it to polarize even more positively, and to grow in compassion. So what? All that means is that wanderers are not letting all this good catalyst go to waste... but it was not meant for us in the first place. It was meant for all those people with their heads in the dirt.

The solar system spirals into an area of the galaxy which aids the creation of the 4D sphere, completed by 21/12/2012. No where in the material does it state (or even hint) that only 51% STO beings will exist in third density after this time.

So let me ask you this... as the planet continues to spiral into higher and higher frequencies, how exactly is one who does not accept or respond to these new energies supposed to stay physical, if they have not done the work necessary to prepare themselves to receive it?

[AnthroHeart]

I thought catalyst was personal. How can we take on someone else's catalyst?

[Tenet Nosce]

I thought catalyst was personal. How can we take on someone else's catalyst?

GW- You are asking some very smart questions. Yet it appears that you are not "doing the work" of going back and reading the relevant parts of the transcripts. If you would go back and take the time to carefully read the quotes I provided earlier, as well as the links with more info on certain terms, I think you would find the answers you are looking for.

Questioner: If an individual makes efforts to act as a catalyst in general to increase the awareness of planetary consciousness, is he of any aid in that direction, or is he doing nothing but acting upon himself?

Ra: I am Ra. We shall answer your question in two parts, both of which are important equally.

Firstly, you must understand that the distinction between yourself and others is not visible to us. We do not consider that a separation exists between the consciousness-raising efforts of the distortion which you project as a personality and the distortion which you project as an other personality. Thus, to learn is the same as to teach unless you are not teaching what you are learning; in which case you have done you/they little or no good. This understanding should be pondered by your mind/body/spirit complex as it is a distortion which plays a part in your experiences at this nexus.

To turn to the second part of our response may we state our understanding, limited though it is.

Group-individuated consciousness is that state of sharing understanding with the other distortions of mind/body/spirit complexes, which are within the evident reach of the mind/body/spirit complex individual or group. Thus, we are speaking to you and accepting both our distortions and your own in order to enunciate the laws of creation, more especially the Law of One. We are not available to many of your peoples, for this is not an easily understood way of communication or type of philosophy. However, our very being is hopefully a poignant example of both the necessity and the near-hopelessness of attempting to teach.

Each of those in this group is striving to use, digest, and diversify the information which we are sending this instrument into the channels of the mind/body/spirit complex without distortion. The few whom you will illuminate by sharing your light are far more than enough reason for the greatest possible effort. To serve one is to serve all. Therefore, we offer the question back to you to state that indeed it is the only activity worth doing: to learn/teach or teach/learn. There is nothing else which is of aid in demonstrating the original thought except your very being, and the distortions that come from the unexplained, inarticulate, or mystery-clad being are many. Thus, to attempt to discern and weave your way through as many group mind/body/spirit distortions as possible among your peoples in the course of your teaching is a very good effort to make. We can speak no more valiantly of your desire to serve.

We cannot teach/learn to another who is unwilling to learn/teach themselves. Spoon-feeding doesn't create understanding, it creates dependence, and ultimately more ignorance.

[AnthroHeart]

Thanks TN.

I had made an assumption when you said "The point is that wanderers are here partially to "ease the burden" of all this intense catalyst by taking some of it on themselves." that we were taking on someone else's catalyst. But we can't learn for someone else, I'm familiar with that.

[zenmaster]

Wanderers don't need this catalyst.

Not according to the material. They also need to be here for their own evolution. Not many wanders are able to polarize to 'adept' levels of work here, which would also greatly aid society. Almost all wanderers are pre-higher-self actualization. They are attempting to remove distortions. Conditions such as these, with the self-programmed biases, greatly facilitate that work. This is regardless of yearning for comforts of "home" and feeling of impropriety, or estrangement based on their somewhat different, native logos development.

Further, there are plenty of 3D natives and transplants that are more conscious and polarized than wanderers of 4th, 5th, and 6th densities. They may be more 'naive', but they are involving 'more of what they are' in their seeking at this time. If anything, the wanderers, in that case, are the ones weighing down evolution.

In the course of their lifetimes here, many wanderers typically will get stuck right at that level that needs to be addressed. Here it's identified as green vMeme - involving 'transformation of mind'. Although many wanderers may rapidly make it to the 'green valuing meme' from the standpoint of experience, many - perhaps most - get trapped there amusing themselves with intuitional vagueries, inflated sense of righteousness, zealotry, hyper-relativism, pseudo-transcendental magical thinking, 'being' or 'knowing' better, etc. which, if left unacknowledged, serve to actually relinquish responsibility for development. They engage in separational finger-pointing at others, appealing to impotence, at the expense of learning and problem solving. That attitude is basically one which rejects further development - i.e. using faith and will.

But there are higher levels of experience than that identified as 'green vMeme' already available here, so yes there is plenty of opportunity here, at this time, that is actively being rejected with excuses which necessarily involve projection. That attitude necessarily requires more and more rejected catalyst from the wanderers.

[Namaste]

We're not the harvesters, there's a fleet of beings in charge of that.

Totally disagree. I'll be making a thread about this subject over the weekend. As you say, it has to do with offering our vibration.

We are only responsible for our own harvest (our violet ray determines that). We cannot do that for another; free will. We can however, be responsible to others, and as Ra mentioned, offer catalyst.

Ra states there are various levels of entities which watch over the harvest. Wanderers were not included :¬)

51.1 Questioner: ... The first is clearing up the final point about harvest. I was wondering if there is a supervision over the harvest and if so, why this supervision is necessary and how it works since an entity’s harvestability is determined by the violet ray? Is it necessary for entities to supervise the harvest, or is it automatic?

Ra: I am Ra. In time of harvest there are always harvesters. The fruit is formed as it will be, but there is some supervision necessary to ensure that this bounty is placed as it should be without the bruise or the blemish.

There are those of three levels watching over harvest.

The first level is planetary and that which may be called angelic. This type of guardian includes the mind/body/spirit complex totality or Higher Self of an entity and those inner plane entities which have been attracted to this entity through its inner seeking.

The second class of those who ward this process are those of the Confederation who have the honor/duty of standing in the small places at the edge of the steps of light/love so that those entities being harvested will not, no matter how confused or unable to make contact with their Higher Self, stumble and fall away for any reason other than the strength of the light. These Confederation entities catch those who stumble and set them aright so that they may continue into the light.

The third group watching over this process is that group you call the Guardians. This group is from the octave above our own and serves in this manner as light bringers. These Guardians provide the precise emissions of light/love in exquisitely fastidious disseminations of discrimination so that the precise light/love vibration of each entity may be ascertained.

Thus the harvest is automatic in that those harvested will respond according to that which is unchangeable during harvest. That is the violet ray emanation. However, these helpers are around to ensure a proper harvesting so that each entity may have the fullest opportunity to express its violet ray selfhood.

Wanderers don't need this catalyst.

Yes, they do. Ra specifically states they they use it for their own polarisation, as it has much more effect here (3D) than in the harmonious densities.

Yes, at some level those things are in place to help people out when they are in a tough spot. But when society becomes dependent upon them, when they become a crutch, there is a serious problem.

It's how it works, Wanderers incarnate to help; it's a means of service. You'd better file a complaint with the Logos :¬)

Same thing is going on with all this catalyst flying around. So I can use it to polarize even more positively, and to grow in compassion. So what? All that means is that wanderers are not letting all this good catalyst go to waste... but it was not meant for us in the first place. It was meant for all those people with their heads in the dirt.

Perhaps you misunderstood. The point is that it's of benefit to those who need the catalyst most; those in the sinkhole of indifference. According to Q'uo, the catalyst at this point in time is exceedingly powerful, one can learn many lessons in a relatively short period of time. They could bump from 50% to 51% STO and graduate.

You also imply by that statement that there is limited catalyst. I am of the notion that we each get exactly what we need.

The solar system spirals into an area of the galaxy which aids the creation of the 4D sphere, completed by 21/12/2012. No where in the material does it state (or even hint) that only 51% STO beings will exist in third density after this time.

So let me ask you this... as the planet continues to spiral into higher and higher frequencies, how exactly is one who does not accept or respond to these new energies supposed to stay physical, if they have not done the work necessary to prepare themselves to receive it?

They prepare during 3D. They make the choice; the reason for this density. When the time of harvest comes, if they chose love more than half of their life(s), they will incarnate next in 4D+.

If they don't, they will incarnate on another sphere that offers third density catalyst/incarnations.

[Tenet Nosce]

Not according to the material. They also need to be here for their own evolution.

I understand why they are here. The context I intended was discussing whether or not the catalyst is needed... to graduate to 4D. Wanderers have already graduated to 4D, or beyond. That counts for something. Yes, of course there are ever new lessons to learn. But the basic coursework has already been completed.

Also, are you overlooking that there were still Logoi graduating from this octave before the negative path even existed? No, this level of intense negativity is not at all necessary, and Ra explicitly says as much in Session One.

Almost all wanderers are pre-higher-self actualization.

Please explain what you mean by this.

[Tyler Durden Maybe]

I love when zenmaster argues with Himself (i.e. The One Creator) to such an Nth degree in all these threads, it makes me laugh so much to read his posts. Put in the context of the LOO it's like saying, "Listen up ME, this is why I'M right and why I'M wrong" HaHa, hilarious!

Wouldn't you say that all beings are One? And therefore, Q.E.D. what they think & believe is what you think & believe? Unless zen doesn't believe that all beings are one, so in that case he thinks he is arguing with "Some One Else" and then it makes sense to me. It also makes sense to me that most Earthlings always want to be right, so they will always argue against "Another" who they have labeled as wrong, in order to justify to themselves they are right and have "Won", Plus it's no where near as fun to argue with yourself in the mirror so they go online in Forums to get their fill. So no need not to be an Earthling, I'm not advocating you stop, it's entertaining.

I don't expect an answer, just wanted to let all know that any argument with one's self always makes me laugh, and for that I thank you.

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End of originally posted Post @ 7.05pm , begin new Post:
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P.S. zenmaster, Just to satisfy my previously stated suspicion on Earthlings, would you say you are ever wrong on anything? Is there any example that you could point to where your personal opinion/belief/view is not correct? I'd be interested in your thoughts on that. (expecting no reply but one can dream)

[Tenet Nosce]

P.S. zenmaster, Just to satisfy my previously stated suspicion on Earthlings, would you say you are ever wrong on anything? Is there any example that you could point to where your personal opinion/belief/view in not correct? I'd be interested in your thoughts on that. (expecting no reply but one can dream)

Why, of course he did. It was earlier in this thread, remember?

In every case of apparent discrepancies, upon deep pondering and analysis, I arrived at the conclusion that I was previously wrong about a certain concept. Or perhaps wrong is too strong of a word. How about... incorrect.

[Tyler Durden Maybe]

Tenet Nosce,

HaHa! I have never counted you (Tenet Nosce) in the the group of "Most Earthlings", and your use of your own statement as an analog of a zenmaster answer was well played and much enjoyed.

I really don't want my suspicion of Most Earthlings always needing to be right and win no matter what to apply in this case, I love being wrong and I'd love to be wrong. I'd love for zen to let me know he has been wrong/incorrect in the past or even the present, then I probably wouldn't laugh so much. Ever hear the saying like "A Fool always think he's right but a Wise Man knows when he's wrong" Wise Men aren't as funny.

[Tenet Nosce]

HaHa! I have never counted you (Tenet Nosce) in the the group of "Most Earthlings", and your use of your own statement as an analog of a zenmaster answer was well played and much enjoyed.

Happy to be of service.

I really don't want my suspicion of Most Earthlings always needing to be right and win no matter what to apply in this case, I love being wrong and I'd love to be wrong.

Everything I have ever learned, is the result of having previously been wrong. According to my close observation "Most Earthlings" would prefer to be pretty much anything BUT wrong. Perhaps this has something to do with their seeming inability to learn some basic spiritual lessons even after 75,000 years of evolution and innumerable reminders from more evolved souls from advanced civilizations throughout the galaxy.

I hope you enjoy this musical piece, which "Most Earthlings" (well at least those 50+) find to be an "inspiration". Brought to you by "Frank Sinatra Enterprises".

[Tyler Durden Maybe]

Tenet Nosce,

In regards to "Most Earthlings" I actually think it is because the Truth is too scary to them then the Lie, so they will believe the Lie and say that is correct/right, and say the Truth is incorrect/wrong and use Cognitive Dissonance to perpetuate this no matter what. The Truth is often much too scary for the average person.

The biggest example of this is 9/11. Even followers of David Wilcock's every word will somehow exclude this particular topic, Well David says 9/11 was an Inside Job but he is wrong on just this one thing, but he's right on everything else. I know people like this.

It's mush less scary to most people to believe a couple Saudi Arabians with Box Cutters and pilot training on Cessna Small Aircraft committed the acts on 9/11 than to believe it was elements of the Military Industrial Complex / Secret Government / Illuminati Cabal.

It's funny how on this one particular topic they believe without question what the Mainstream Media and Bush Administration told them. But if you ask them do they believe what the the Bush Administration and Mainstream Media say in general or at all on any other topic, the answer is a resounding No they are liars. But in this case, they totally believe them. And not the thousands of Scientists, Pilots, Firefighters, Physicists, Engineers and not to mention every Spiritual Leader & Researcher I've ever heard speak on the subject, who say otherwise. I can't think of one well known Spiritual Author/Researcher who doesn't think 9/11 was an inside job, yet many, many spiritual people, especially older (like 50+) people, they just cannot handle this as truth even if it is true.

I've also heard that Human Beings are somewhat "Hard-Wired" to believe whatever it is they believe no matter what, as a kind of Evolutionary function. It would not serve the species to perpetuate itself if every action they took or belief they held was constantly questioned. For example, It wouldn't help Humans to believe that the floor wasn't solid every time the took a step so they think it is solid, even though we now know "Solid" matter isn't what we thought is was! That kind of thing.

[Tenet Nosce]

I've also heard that Human Beings are somewhat "Hard-Wired" to believe whatever it is they believe no matter what, as a kind of Evolutionary function.

That is true, to an extent. But there is also evidence for genetic manipulation toward bellicosity and insolence. And I don't mean just from Ra Material.

New Evidence Debunks 'Stupid' Neanderthal Myth

Blades were first produced by Homo sapiens during their colonization of Europe from Africa approximately 40,000 years ago. This has traditionally been thought to be a dramatic technological advance, helping Homo sapiens out-compete, and eventually eradicate, their Stone Age cousins. Yet when the research team analysed their data there was no statistical difference between the efficiency of the two technologies. In fact, their findings showed that in some respects the flakes favoured by Neanderthals were more efficient than the blades adopted by Homo sapiens.

...

Now that it is established that there is no technical advantage to blades, why did Homo sapiens adopt this technology during their colonization of Europe? The researchers suggest that the reason for this shift may be more cultural or symbolic. Eren explains: "Colonizing a continent isn't easy. Colonizing a continent during the Ice Age is even harder. So, for early Homo sapiens colonizing Ice Age Europe, a new shared and flashy-looking technology might serve as one form of social glue by which larger social networks were bonded. Thus, during hard times and resource droughts these larger social networks might act like a type of 'life insurance,' ensuring exchange and trade among members on the same 'team.'"

My guess is that "Eren" is one of those 50+ folks to which you previously referred that can't see the truth even when it smacks them right in the face. Notice how the murderous technology is spun into a good thing. You know... something that was useful and necessary for "colonizing". Funny, when I read the word colon-ize it makes me think of disembowelment. Now blades would certainly be useful for that.

Brains of Neanderthals and Modern Humans Developed Differently

Neanderthals More Advanced Than Previously Thought: They Innovated, Adapted Like Modern Humans, Research Shows

Non-Africans Are Part Neanderthal, Genetic Research Shows

Fall of the Neanderthals: Volume of Modern Humans Infiltrating Europe Cited as Critical Factor

Ancient Humans Were Mixing It Up: Anatomically Modern Humans Interbred With More Archaic Hominin Forms While in Africa

But notice how, in these studies, the scientists are still overlooking the obvious explanation and calling it "interbreeding". When interbreeding occurs between species, there is exchange of entire chromosomes, not chromosome parts. That is evidence of genetic engineering, not interbreeding, and anybody who has taken a intro course in genetics should know that. Some "scientists" should be stripped of their degrees, in my opinion.

After the "new man" was manufactured, they were told by their "creator" that it was their right/duty/privilege to roam the earth, committing genocide of their more peaceful and gentle cousins, the Neanderthals. And there were a couple other of species of hominids that early man wiped out as well. Notice how this lines up well with the multitude of "creation myths"... except the genocide of other species part has been conveniently edited out. The fratricide within our own species, of course, remains in the materials, and it always said to have been done at the behest of "God" against the "rebels". Interesting... I wonder what those "rebels" were rebelling against? Genocide, maybe?

Maybe it all has something to do with collective amnesia caused by repression of these heinous atrocities committed by our ancestors upon those others they perceived themselves as "better than"?

The Truth is often much too scary for the average person.

Indeed.

[native]

Ra states there are various levels of entities which watch over the harvest. Wanderers were not included :¬)

Yes, 51.1 will be the subject of the thread actually. Wanderers are members of the Confederation. Save the debate for the thread though!

[Tenet Nosce]

...

It appears we have have reached the point in this particular discussion where we are merely having a difference of opinion, rather than arguing over the facts of the material. This is well.

Thank you again for bringing this topic up, and for the enlightening and lively discussion.

---

"A Fool always think he's right but a Wise Man knows when he's wrong"

What does one call a Fool who accuses the Wise Man of self-righteousness even as the Wise Man openly admits to his wrongness? Oh, nevermind, I just remembered: an Impetuous Fool.

---

Ra states there are various levels of entities which watch over the harvest. Wanderers were not included :¬)

Yes, 51.1 will be the subject of the thread actually. Wanderers are members of the Confederation. Save the debate for the thread though!

If you will be going where I think you will be going, there will be no debate from me. I'll see you in those "small places".

[native]

Yes

[Tenet Nosce]

We are all harvested upon death, and we are all harvested if we reach certain criteria in our 3D conduct by a certain time.

There is more than one way to die. And besides that, there is nothing which precludes living simultaneously in multiple densities.

---

The transcripts are fantastic to me so far, and I would agree with TN that they are sadly limited by the questioners. But it is easy from our perspective to see the overall content and think, "Why didn't he ask X?"

Oh yes, it is easy from out here in the peanut gallery! I didn't mean it in any sort of critical fashion. However, I believe there is great wisdom in getting a feel for how one might approach a similar situation differently. You never know when such a situation might arise...

---

I've just been doing some more research for my Yadda Yadda thread, and found this interesting quote. Note: Yadda was not being channeled by Carla here, but by Mark Probert. I think there is some wisdom here which we could all benefit from.

Lecture by Yada di Shi'ite
and
Professor Luntz
Through Medium Mark Probert
November 17 1956
~ Detroit Federation of Women's Club ~

We, my friends, do not care what you believe, not one little bit, and you should not be concerned with what another believes. But you should be, and we are, vitally concerned with how another has arrived at his conclusions about anything, let alone survival and communication. That is interesting. Not only is it interesting, but it is vital for us to know.

To simply tell me what you believe does nothing for me because I have a belief of my own that may be totally different from yours. This may cause, and often does, war between two people, for never is your belief as good as mine, as right as mine, as true and mine. "I am one of the chosen of God, you are chosen if at all, by the devil." So you see, my friends, we get no where by asking another his opinion about life.

But to sit down and talk and ask, "How did you arrive at what you believe, my friend?" This not only informs me about the nature of what is called thought, in general, but it tells me the nature, the character of this individual. It tells me where his fears lie, where his hopes and joys and his pains originate. Remember, my friends, that all is mind, all is but consciousness. We walk and have our being in the Light that is called Christness, the Light, not space and time as separate entities from consciousness.

[Namaste]

Ra states there are various levels of entities which watch over the harvest. Wanderers were not included :¬)

Yes, 51.1 will be the subject of the thread actually. Wanderers are members of the Confederation. Save the debate for the thread though!

I'll most certainly be reading that, interesting idea :¬)

It appears we have have reached the point in this particular discussion where we are merely having a difference of opinion, rather than arguing over the facts of the material. This is well.

Thank you again for bringing this topic up, and for the enlightening and lively discussion.

Thanks for the initial pointer, it was following your link to the homecoming PDF that opened my eyes to the idea that the harvest has started. 100% convinced now, upon this chat and the further study of the Ra Material.

[Sagittarius]

Tenet Nosce,

HaHa! I have never counted you (Tenet Nosce) in the the group of "Most Earthlings", and your use of your own statement as an analog of a zenmaster answer was well played and much enjoyed.

I really don't want my suspicion of Most Earthlings always needing to be right and win no matter what to apply in this case, I love being wrong and I'd love to be wrong. I'd love for zen to let me know he has been wrong/incorrect in the past or even the present, then I probably wouldn't laugh so much. Ever hear the saying like "A Fool always think he's right but a Wise Man knows when he's wrong" Wise Men aren't as funny.

Funny you say that because after the trance I was in on 11/11/11 (posted fully about it in the 11/11/11 thread) I chuckled to myself about how ridiculous all this speculation and discussion is once viewed from a higher point. In the trance it was like everything was a catalyst, I saw one in everything so to speak. The answers to all of our questions is everything around us, every word spoken to us.

It is difficult to resist the inquisitive mechanical side of our minds and try to define every little distortion as Ra would put it. When the answer lies in that which can not be defined but rather felt.

We can not achieve a constant state of the one that I was in because we are not meant to. It scared me at the time, it was meant to I think. All we can do is follow our will and go with the flow.Not saying this forum isn't a good thing, this is a vital catalyst I suspect for us all on here as wanderers. Still follow your inquisitive mind, but know it is the feelings that are the real indicators and not the definitions.