UK riots

[Kiko]

and now the governments are tightening social security for austerity for paying for the money rich frauded in the banks out of governments and corporations.

what would be the result ? flowers ?

That made me laugh Unity! Regarding the banks, politicians and corporations defrauding the masses, it is still going on brazenly right in front of our faces! I think perhaps that is what is stirring up so much anger amongst populations in general. The elite are perfectly happy to tell the non-elite that everything is crashing, that we will all suffer (but of course "we are all in it together") and then publicly announcing the likes of 6.5 million pound bonuses. Not annual or 10 year salary, but a bonus!

It beggars belief, and as Lorna says, the working masses try to do their best within the mindset they hold, and the lowest paid suffer poverty. The untouchable and rudderless youth who have grown up in a ruined UK society, where they have not been shown what having a social conscience means, see no reason not to burn things down for the fun of it. It is probably, as the author of the article I linked to above said, been the most fun they have had in a while apart from drugs, alcohol, sexual encounters, and a seemingly meaningless existence.

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is it anger, frustration, trying to make a point or a reaction against disadvantaged circumstances? or is it organised theft?

yes there is poverty, but to be frank we don't have poverty in the uk on the scale that other societies do. and i would counter that what went on last night wasn't anger about poverty or frustration at a lack of hope, it was organised crime, a strategy planned and managed by known gangsters and implemented by kids who don't care because there are no consequences

I would suggest a bit of everything. The social unrest and lack of concern for others is now deeply embedded within the minds of many UK youth. As you say, they feel happy and free to join in because once it starts, there will be no real punishment anyway. And it does sound like hardened criminals are taking advantage and organising things. That naturally happens in most riots, going by past evidence.

Something I find interesting is what link there is to souls coming into the world in these times, and what their purpose and lessons might be. Are 'advanced' souls incarnating and becoming feckless, mindless youths? is there a sudden influx of 'young' souls incarnating because they will accrue a lot of experience in a short time? I am lazing around and off on holiday for a week tomorrow, so am not fussed about doing a lot of research through online materials right now, but I would be happy to hear some ideas and Ra quotes (and others too).

[unity100]

is it anger, frustration, trying to make a point or a reaction against disadvantaged circumstances?

or is it organised theft?

yes there is poverty, but to be frank we don't have poverty in the uk on the scale that other societies do. and i would counter that what went on last night wasn't anger about poverty or frustration at a lack of hope, it was organised crime, a strategy planned and managed by known gangsters and implemented by kids who don't care because there are no consequenses

all of them probably.

i see the worst offender as the exclusion. the class based society and its lingering effects on the society. the 'haves' and 'have nots'. it is the biggest offender in these cases, especially in the case of youth.

there are worse off countries where there is greater disparage in wealth. but you dont see youth rioting in this fashion. in those countries a general feeling of belonging exists, and people accept their places. in britain there is exclusion contempt and disdain for the 'lowlier' since centuries.

Something I find interesting is what link there is to souls coming into the world in these times, and what their purpose and lessons might be. Are 'advanced' souls incarnating and becoming feckless, mindless youths? is there a sudden influx of 'young' souls incarnating because they will accrue a lot of experience in a short time? I am lazing around and off on holiday for a week tomorrow, so am not fussed about doing a lot of research through online materials right now, but I would be happy to hear some ideas and Ra quotes (and others too).

or maybe being the spearhead of an unrest that will bring change, by shattering the roots of existing societal order ?

[Jim Kent +]

Greetings all,

I live in Britain and have been watching the events of the last week with concerned interest.

One omission from this discussion that I feel is pertinent is what started this current wave of unrest...

Almost a week ago a man was shot and killed by the police in London, with the police changing their accounts of the events leading to this man's "murder" numerous times, the man in question may well have been "coke dealing scum" to paraphrase a friend of mine, and may well have been armed, but the IPCC have determined that the dead man did not fire a shot and therefore I would ask you this:

Did he deserve to be executed?

The family and friends held a peaceful protest at their local London police-station and waited for 5 hours for some answers from anyone - but none was offered - and it was after this lack of response to reasonable questions that eventually led to the disturbances that have now spread across England.

Of course I am not attempting to excuse pointless violence, looting and destruction - BUT - the fact remains that the police do routinely harass "ethnic minorities", not only in London, but across Britain, and I am certain that this situation is at least a contributing factor to the unrest we have witnessed in recent days!

I hope that the actions of the "criminal underworld" creating so much destruction are curtailed by the authorities - because if they aren't - we may well end up with Martial law - and then we're all screwed!!!

This is a complicated situation, with complex reasons for its existence, but I feel that it erroneous to simply attribute all of this unrest to criminals bent on destruction and theft!

I sincerely hope that the situation is brought under control sooner rather than later - for everyone's sake!

Jim

[Raman]

There are lots of protests in Chile as well, although mainmedia says is student based. Also, in Spain the pope plans a visit which will necessarily close Madrid (El Sol, etc) to any other protest by indignados. They come up with good ideas, no?

[Kiko]

Almost a week ago a man was shot and killed by the police in London, with the police changing their accounts of the events leading to this man's "murder" numerous times, the man in question may well have been "coke dealing scum" to paraphrase a friend of mine, and may well have been armed, but the IPCC have determined that the dead man did not fire a shot and therefore I would ask you this: Did he deserve to be executed?

Hi Jim. I do not know whether he was 'executed'. He may have pointed his converted weapon at someone, or the armed police may have just over-reacted and fired first because he refused to stop or moved in a certain way. It does seem from released ballistic evidence that the officer who was shot and saved by his radio was hit by a police round.

The family and friends held a peaceful protest at their local London police-station and waited for 5 hours for some answers from anyone - but none was offered - and it was after this lack of response to reasonable questions that eventually led to the disturbances that have now spread across England.

Having friends and family in the police and armed forces, I am aware that like most groups they will immediately look after their own. The events flowing from the mild protest of the family are obviously hijacked by criminals and unruly masses of youth, and continue to be so.

Police do routinely harass ethnic minorities, although in many places in the UK they are no longer minorities. I have seen videos of groups of USA police beating coloured people almost to death, the only excuse being that they were stopped for some reason in the first place. Personally, I think all of these things are just a sign of the times, with fear spreading through all walks of life. We do not have to join in with or give in to such fears though.

It is interesting to hear different views in this thread, although it does occur to me that we could be talking about such things for some years to come! These events will no doubt grow and spread, reduce in numbers and intensity, then grow and spread again. Such are the times we live in, but it was no different in ancient Rome, etc.

[Oceania]

no it's not clear.

since you are able to regularly post to discuss on this discussion as of this moment, you are sufficiently well off in regard to whether you will be able to find food tomorrow, even if you are living in a mold-infested room.

otherwise, you would be trying to find ways to save your hiney instead of participating in an internet discussion in this frequency.

seriously U, what's your point? i don't get how that's relative to the discussion. and you don't know anything about my financial situation or its stability. not that it is related to what i'm talking about.

[unity100]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJQHWwEpw...dded#at=58

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no it's not clear.

since you are able to regularly post to discuss on this discussion as of this moment, you are sufficiently well off in regard to whether you will be able to find food tomorrow, even if you are living in a mold-infested room.

otherwise, you would be trying to find ways to save your hiney instead of participating in an internet discussion in this frequency.

seriously U, what's your point? i don't get how that's relative to the discussion. and you don't know anything about my financial situation or its stability. not that it is related to what i'm talking about.

the point is clear enough. if you are still able to not perceive it, i cant help anymore.

[Kiko]

the point is clear enough. if you are still able to not perceive it, i cant help anymore.

Hi Unity. Just a thought...

I noticed Oceania (lovely nickname) telling me things in another thread that I did not seem to get the gist of immediately, and I think it is an issue common to our human state. We do not all think the same way.

I do not know you or anyone else here, but may I offer the thought that kindness in explaining what you mean further may help?

[Lorna]

.

Something I find interesting is what link there is to souls coming into the world in these times, and what their purpose and lessons might be. Are 'advanced' souls incarnating and becoming feckless, mindless youths? is there a sudden influx of 'young' souls incarnating because they will accrue a lot of experience in a short time? I am lazing around and off on holiday for a week tomorrow, so am not fussed about doing a lot of research through online materials right now, but I would be happy to hear some ideas and Ra quotes (and others too).

this is a really interesting point kiko, and i would suggest not necessarily young souls but perhaps souls who have potential to make a clear choice. what we see on tv are the kids from these deprived communities who are making a destructive choice. those who are not making a sto choice. what we don't see are the kids who are making a positive impact on these same communities, the kids who are volunteering, who are working positively with community projects, who are supporting ill or unstable parents - we do sometimes see these kids on children in need or programmes like that and they are very inspiring

[Nyu]

I do not believe poverty is an excuse for bad behaviour. I come from a childhood of living out of the back of a car, constantly in fear and being on the run from abuse, struggling to find next meals and everything that encompasses living at the bottom end of a developed country. It's not as bad as being 3rd world or anything but it was bad. I don't want to get into my own story but the point is poverty has nothing to do with bad behaviour, just like video games don't cause violence either. We have this way of putting the big blanket of "society" over all of our problems so that we don't have to be responsible for ourselves as individuals, and its rubbish. /rant

[Conifer16]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14475741

I thought that the last sentence is pretty cool. Perhaps the rioters on some level are choosing to generate extreme negativity so as to creat catalyst for others and possibly generate a feeling of coming together and unity as the last sentence says.

Thanks,
Conifer16
Adonai Vasu Borragus

[unity100]

the point is clear enough. if you are still able to not perceive it, i cant help anymore.

Hi Unity. Just a thought...

I noticed Oceania (lovely nickname) telling me things in another thread that I did not seem to get the gist of immediately, and I think it is an issue common to our human state. We do not all think the same way.

I do not know you or anyone else here, but may I offer the thought that kindness in explaining what you mean further may help?

i dont see any necessity in further explaining it. thank you for your intervention.

I do not believe poverty is an excuse for bad behaviour. I come from a childhood of living out of the back of a car, constantly in fear and being on the run from abuse, struggling to find next meals and everything that encompasses living at the bottom end of a developed country. It's not as bad as being 3rd world or anything but it was bad. I don't want to get into my own story but the point is poverty has nothing to do with bad behaviour, just like video games don't cause violence either. We have this way of putting the big blanket of "society" over all of our problems so that we don't have to be responsible for ourselves as individuals, and its rubbish. /rant

let me tell you what is rubbish - accepting the notion that 'life should be hard' is rubbish. there is no such requirement.

your life was apparently hard. and you came from a hard childhood, and you managed to make it out to an acceptable situation. there are endless numbers who havent made it to that situation like you.

society is no different than human body - you may put it under too much pressure, and majority of the body may handle that pressure, but a few organs may react. the guilt here lies in not in the organs that react, but, the person who puts the body under undue pressure and stress.

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as an update to the topic's original subject :

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16046775

The victim of a police shooting may not have fired at officers before he was killed, according to a report by the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

An IPCC ballistics report said there was "no evidence" that a handgun found near where Mark Duggan was shot by armed officers had been used.

The 29-year-old died after a gunshot to the chest on Thursday. The death sparked the first night of rioting in London in Tottenham.

His family issued a statement saying: "We feel completely gutted. Someone must be made accountable for this. We can't believe that they can do this.

"In this day and age, this is completely unacceptable. We are very, very angry and we want answers now from the police."

Mr Duggan had been a passenger in a silver Toyota Estima minicab in Ferry Lane, close to Tottenham Hale Tube station, which was believed to have been stopped by police.

His death came after two shots were fired by a Scotland Yard CO19 firearms officer, investigations show.

[Oceania]

i totally agree. the guilt lies on the one who puts the body under stress. i'm not saying it's an excuse but there's bound to be "cells" as Monkey puts it that break.

but i have known homeless people that are online everyday, so there goes your theory, Unity.

[unity100]

but i have known homeless people that are online everyday, so there goes your theory, Unity.

it is not a theory. you say 'homeless people'. so, they are homeless. lacking a home. moreover, you say 'you have known'. meaning, you arent with them still up to this point. any of them probably had had to look for their well being after the time you known them, rather than constantly joining online discussions real-time.

if, you are saying that a state of homelessness exists, in which you could be fed without having to work in things you dont like, keep yourself sheltered from elements, be easy about your future, and constantly participate in online discussions, i would like to learn about that.

[Oceania]

what? i don't understand that sentence. and please don't say you can't explain further. what does it matter if i am with them up to this point? i don't understand?

i didn't say it's easy to be homeless, they have a lot of time on their hands but they also have to survive on the streets. i don't recommend it.