The Nicefication of Eating Meat

[indolering]

Even his holiness the Dalai Lama says that he will eat meat/fish if it is given to him by a host so as to not offend.
A simple blessing of the animal should suffice.

The Dalai Lama would rather not offend his host, than not participate—by imbibing and therefore condoning—the torture and cruelty of farm animals, or at least the unnecessary slaughter for meat. That doesn't sound very enlightened to me; it sounds human egocentric-based.

I really don't mean to be inflammatory, but try going to slaughterhouse, or even watch an animal being slaughtered while in terror for its life and experiencing mortal pain at the very least, and do a "simple blessing" and tell me if that suffices. 

Yeh, just checked. It's ok.
Drama Queen. :-/

She's not a drama queen - she's an empath and a righteous one at that.  

Diana

That's awesome.  As Matt1 said, there are meat substitutes that can ease the addiction....

That's right, Diana.  It's an addiction, a lifelong habit we grew up with, a habit almost worse than cigarettes, alcohol or sugar.  Humans are herbivores, fortunate enough to survive and perhaps even thrive on animal products.  But just because we're able to eat a variety of foods doesn't mean we should.  What can I say?  A spiritual aspirant seeks to live an ethical life.  A righteous moral code is enshrined within each of us, built up over millennia of incarnations.  Each of us can know right from wrong without outside influence.  There does
exist a universal spiritual morality which pervades the cosmos.  That's my experience.  I don't condemn anyone who participates in animal slaughter - we progress at our own rate.  I try to live by the ancient, universal principle of ahimsa: the principle of non-violence toward all sentient beings.


Your instincts are correct, Mat.  Follow your heart.  Do not be a slave to bad habits.  I know you'll do well. 

[Parsons]

@indolering, You can argue that humans are moving towards an herbivorous diet, but humans clearly have an omnivorous physiology/history.

In fact, here is an article from the Vegetarian Resource Group conceding that point:

https://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm

Further reading:

http://winging-it.me/2012/08/09/vegetari...e-teeth-2/

[indolering]

@indolering, You can argue that humans are moving towards an herbivores diet, but humans clearly have an omnivorous physiology/history.

In fact, here is an article from the Vegetarian Resource Group conceding that point:

https://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm

Further reading:

http://winging-it.me/2012/08/09/vegetari...e-teeth-2/

We have an herbivore physiology, and our history has little relevance for us today.  We used to condone slavery also.  

Watch this and be informed....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5hGQDLprA8 

[Parsons]

We have an herbivore physiology [...]

Citation needed   

If you actual bother to read that article (written by a vegetarian), its very clear humans are omnivores physiologically.

Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns.

[indolering]

We have an herbivore physiology [...]

Citation needed   

If you actual bother to read that article (written by a vegetarian), its very clear humans are omnivores physiologically.

Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns.

No, I didn't need to read the article - I know humans are herbivores, your nutshell article is undoubtedly flawed.

Here's your citation, sir:  http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html 

[Ashim]

I really don't mean to be inflammatory, but...terror...mortal pain

Come on. You are being inflammatory and using dramatics to spice up the argument.

You don't really know these things though do you Diana?
I guess you think it sounds good and may have the effect of unloading a guilt trip on someone.

I see that sort of comment as manipulative.
You are creating strong imagery in order to force your beliefs on others.
Not very Law of One.

[Shemaya]

If you actual bother to read that article (written by a vegetarian), its very clear humans are omnivores physiologically.

Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns.

Hi Parsons, I read the article.

It is short and explains why humans are omnivores, makes total sense.  I personally think the claim that humans are herbivores is a poor argument for a meat free diet, as is the " moral standard " argument. As is the slavery argument. 

I think the best argument is that we are moving in that direction, in 4D we as humans will likely eliminate meat from our diets.  It's not a black and white decision as some people make it out to be.  However, I think it is very easy to reduce the meat and animal products in our diet. 

I like sea food like clams .  Clams and bivalves have no central nervous system so I don't know where that falls into the "sentience" spectrum.  The point is just minor shifts in what we do across a large scale will help the overall picture.  Spirituality is about becoming more aware and conscious, and we naturally change our daily behaviors when we are aware and step by step things move closer to 4d .

I have to admit I get irritated by the passive aggressive ,inflammatory, moralizing, condescending arguments that we see a lot in this discussion.  I realize that it just triggers my religious conditioning ( I was brought up Catholic, talk about a guilt complex!)

I can see from your posts that you are a very sensitive and spiritual person, so keep up the faith, have compassion for your physical body and humanity, just a little encouragement coming from a like- minded spiritual seeker. 

[Diana]

I really don't mean to be inflammatory, but...terror...mortal pain

Come on. You are being inflammatory and using dramatics to spice up the argument.

You don't really know these things though do you Diana?
I guess you think it sounds good and may have the effect of unloading a guilt trip on someone.

I see that sort of comment as manipulative.
You are creating strong imagery in order to force your beliefs on others.
Not very Law of One.

My dear Ashim, I am not trying to be melodramatic. I may sometimes come off that way as my own passion spills through for any cruelty on this planet, and would as well if we were talking about so much unneeded starvation on this planet. I am usually pretty Spock-like, so forgive me a little folly where my heart is torn in two.

I have seen animals slaughtered, not on videos because I can't watch them, but I grew up in rural upstate NY and there were farms all around. One of my earliest memories was when I was about 6 years old. There were several adults around, and one was joking about how a chicken will run around with its head cut off. So he grabbed a chicken and brought it over to a chopping block. The chicken knew it was in danger and I knew that as a 6 year old. Perhaps it was me projecting, but Occam's razor would have to conclude that the simpler idea is that the chicken was in instinctual survival mode. The chicken furiously tried to escape and cried out especially when it was being stretched on the block with two men holding it down. They chopped the head off with an axe and let the chicken go. It ran around headless in circles until it dropped. I was frozen in place and horrified while the adults all laughed.

I have also seen cows bellowing and treated miserably, hit on the head with sludge hammers until they finally die. I have seen the little veal calves in tiny pens where they can't move, being force fed and crying, as they are taken from their mothers right away. 

That animals suffer so we humans can consume them is a fact to me. If it isn't to you, well, I can't say what I think is correct is correct for everyone. But honestly, is the suffering not real? Beyond livestock farming, have we not taken away the animals' habitats while spreading ourselves over the globe without thinking what we are doing? I live near a place called Deer Valley, because at one time it was full of deer herds. There are only shopping malls and subdivisions there now. A developer built over the animals' local watering hole (in the desert) down the road from me. No thought to the impact on the wildlife.

If I express my feeling at the plight of animals, it is not to make you or anyone else feel guilty. First of all, I am smart enough to know that that doesn't work anyway. Perhaps it is just that once the door is opened on the subject, my sadness and sometimes anger spill forth. I hope that in this venue, I will be allowed to honestly express what I feel. 

[BrownEye]

Humans clearly have an omnivorous physiology/history.

Humans have a clearly murderous history. Does that mean it is efficient, justified, or logical? What does it mean exactly? It means ages of "monkey see monkey do".

Quite a lot of people that try to justify their continuation of 3d. Which is fine, most still have a lot to learn.

We are doing well with time travel and remote view. I have to say that there are no clear concepts of the future in this forum. Eating meat after the shift? Comical. You should see the look on the faces of the regular folk that transition the shift. Nobody is ready. And even after acclimation the new senses will be revolted at causing suffering. You can't hide from it. And you can't hide The nature you choose to be.

[Billy]

Humans clearly have an omnivorous physiology/history.

Humans have a clearly murderous history. Does that mean it is efficient, justified, or logical? What does it mean exactly? It means ages of "monkey see monkey do".

Quite a lot of people that try to justify their continuation of 3d. Which is fine, most still have a lot to learn.

We are doing well with time travel and remote view. I have to say that there are no clear concepts of the future in this forum. Eating meat after the shift? Comical. You should see the look on the faces of the regular folk that transition the shift. Nobody is ready. And even after acclimation the new senses will be revolted at causing suffering. You can't hide from it. And you can't hide The nature you choose to be.

What are some clear concepts of the future?  Also, who isn't ready, and for what?

[Shemaya]

Humans clearly have an omnivorous physiology/history.

Humans have a clearly murderous history. Does that mean it is efficient, justified, or logical? What does it mean exactly? It means ages of "monkey see monkey do".

Quite a lot of people that try to justify their continuation of 3d. Which is fine, most still have a lot to learn.

We are doing well with time travel and remote view. I have to say that there are no clear concepts of the future in this forum. 

True that, it been a history of murder in our society, and still happening every moment.  Children are murdered every day, it's heart breaking.

I can totally agree with you on the the murderous history of humans, but to lead others forward out of 3d, they need to be empowered.

Do you understand what I mean Brown Eye?  

If there are no clear concepts, why don't you elaborate.

I would like to say at the outset that a legalistic, oppressive "law" about what people eat, and rituals they perform, and activities that please the gods are not part of the new paradigm.  That is the old way.  Anything that violates the free will of others is not part of the new paradigm.

Just a couple of ideas to start with.

[AnthroHeart]

I feel ready for the shift though I still eat meat. I figure in 4D I'll stop.

[bosphorus]

I believe eating meat is a necessity for human body. Even it seems as negative, it's a required thing for body.

From the beginning, human bodies are designed to operate with meat. Although it's not completely healthy, it's pretty necessary.

The meat contains animal proteins that give fuel to many parts, such as brain and muscles. Without them we're not to function well in the long-term. I remember, when i was a student, i needed much red and White meat to study. When i didn't get enough meat, i was terrible in studies and feeling a bit different. 

Also, another important thing is, that meat is indispensable for preventing arthritis. You know arthritis is caused by the absence of animal proteins in the body. There are many people i know WHO are deprived of red meat and consequently are suffering joint pain.

I know it's unloving to kill a creature for that kind of reason. However if we're to survive it's vital to eat meat.

Best wishes

ps: so sorry if negative. just wanted to give idea

[indolering]

Animal products are completely unnecessary for human health.  Many people believe as you do - but humans are herbivores, not carnivores or even omnivores.  if you feel better on animal products, more power to you - but don't spread lies that animals are necessary for optimum health. 

Peruse this site and be informed....

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

[Diana]

I believe eating meat is a necessity for human body. Even it seems as negative, it's a required thing for body.

From the beginning, human bodies are designed to operate with meat. Although it's not completely healthy, it's pretty necessary.

The meat contains animal proteins that give fuel to many parts, such as brain and muscles. Without them we're not to function well in the long-term. I remember, when i was a student, i needed much red and White meat to study. When, i didn't get enough meat, i was terrible in studies and feeling a bit different. 

Also, another important thing is, that meat is indispensable for preventing arthritis. You know arthritis is caused by the absence of animal proteins in the body. There are many people i know WHO are deprived of red meat and consequently they are suffering joint pain.

I know it's unloving to kill a creature for that kind of reason. However if we're to survive it's vital to eat meat.

Best wishes

ps: so sorry if negative. just wanted to give idea

Eating meat is not a necessity for the human body. Monica posted endless research to support this. I am a good example. I have been vegetarian since 1993. I am way healthier than anyone else I know my age. 

Article on Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine that refutes what you say about meat-eating preventing arthritis (in fact, it says the opposite, and that statistically a vegan diet improves arthritis):

Foods and Arthritis

[Shemaya]

I believe eating meat is a necessity for human body. Even it seems as negative, it's a required thing for body.

From the beginning, human bodies are designed to operate with meat. Although it's not completely healthy, it's pretty necessary.

The meat contains animal proteins that give fuel to many parts, such as brain and muscles. Without them we're not to function well in the long-term. I remember, when i was a student, i needed much red and White meat to study. When i didn't get enough meat, i was terrible in studies and feeling a bit different. 

Also, another important thing is, that meat is indispensable for preventing arthritis. You know arthritis is caused by the absence of animal proteins in the body. There are many people i know WHO are deprived of red meat and consequently are suffering joint pain.

I know it's unloving to kill a creature for that kind of reason. However if we're to survive it's vital to eat meat.

Best wishes

ps: so sorry if negative. just wanted to give idea

Hi bosphorus,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts 

I am curious, do mind sharing where you live and where you were born? I am just asking because our ideas and habits regarding food are social and cultural and depend on our location on the planet.

[bosphorus]

I believe eating meat is a necessity for human body. Even it seems as negative, it's a required thing for body.

From the beginning, human bodies are designed to operate with meat. Although it's not completely healthy, it's pretty necessary.

The meat contains animal proteins that give fuel to many parts, such as brain and muscles. Without them we're not to function well in the long-term. I remember, when i was a student, i needed much red and White meat to study. When i didn't get enough meat, i was terrible in studies and feeling a bit different. 

Also, another important thing is, that meat is indispensable for preventing arthritis. You know arthritis is caused by the absence of animal proteins in the body. There are many people i know WHO are deprived of red meat and consequently are suffering joint pain.

I know it's unloving to kill a creature for that kind of reason. However if we're to survive it's vital to eat meat.

Best wishes

ps: so sorry if negative. just wanted to give idea

Hi bosphorus,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts 

I am curious, do mind sharing where you live and where you were born? I am just asking because our ideas and habits regarding food are social and cultural and depend on our location on the planet.

Hi Shemaya. I live and was born in istanbul (Turkey).

[AnthroHeart]

I used to have a Turkish friend.

Selam

[bosphorus]

I used to have a Turkish friend.

Selam

 cool gemini.

[AnthroHeart]

We drank Rakı, and it stung my tongue bad.

[bosphorus]

We drank Rakı, and it stung my tongue bad.

i see. Raki is a bit hard

[AnthroHeart]

I loved the strong Turkish Tea that he made though.

[Shemaya]

I believe eating meat is a necessity for human body. Even it seems as negative, it's a required thing for body.

From the beginning, human bodies are designed to operate with meat. Although it's not completely healthy, it's pretty necessary.

The meat contains animal proteins that give fuel to many parts, such as brain and muscles. Without them we're not to function well in the long-term. I remember, when i was a student, i needed much red and White meat to study. When i didn't get enough meat, i was terrible in studies and feeling a bit different. 

Also, another important thing is, that meat is indispensable for preventing arthritis. You know arthritis is caused by the absence of animal proteins in the body. There are many people i know WHO are deprived of red meat and consequently are suffering joint pain.

I know it's unloving to kill a creature for that kind of reason. However if we're to survive it's vital to eat meat.

Best wishes

ps: so sorry if negative. just wanted to give idea

Hi bosphorus

Hi Shemaya. I live and was born in istanbul (Turkey).

 
Oh wow   I love to hear about other cultures and how people across the planet live.  Istanbul, Turkey sounds so exotic to me here in Northeast USA.   

I know that Turkey was the center of the Ottoman Empire so there is a multi- cultural and very old history and blending of customs from around the world.  I imagine the cuisine in Turkey reflects that. I would think the cuisine and customs have developed over the course of the earth's  entire history of modern civilization.

Customs aren't set in stone though, we can change at anytime.

I was curious, so I just watched a video called " Istanbul Street Food".  ( I will post it if anyone is interested).  It was so interesting, it portrayed a culture that loves to eat! The food looked delicious.  My impression was the people of Turkey gather together and share and enjoy eating, and that it is vitally important socially.

I really appreciate you sharing, it is so good for us here in the west to get others perspectives.

[Parsons]

Humans clearly have an omnivorous physiology/history.

Humans have a clearly murderous history. Does that mean it is efficient, justified, or logical? What does it mean exactly? It means ages of "monkey see monkey do".

Quite a lot of people that try to justify their continuation of 3d. Which is fine, most still have a lot to learn.

No no, you are not understanding my point. What you are saying does not apply to my statement.

To really break it down, I am saying that our 2D ancestors before humans evolved (and humans themselves) are physically equipped to chew and digest meat. I never said anyone SHOULD be eating meat or justified in eating meat. I am just clearing up the delusion that humans and our immediate animal ancestors are herbivorous. It just seems so ridiculous to me...

Its like saying a square peg naturally fits through a round hole and in fact the square peg has been round all along. Its fine if you choose to be a round peg or even claim that our race is moving towards being all round pegs, but physiology and history is that of a square peg. 

[indolering]

.
Parsons, I have the impression that you are looking at humanity's history going back a few thousand years, when they often indulged in animal foods.  I believe the evidence shows that early man, for the last few hundred thousand years subsisted primarily on plants.  Look again at the link I provided and tell me if you think chimps or other primates have drastically changed their eating habits - very unlikely.  Same with man.  Until recently when 'persuasion' and 'choice' entered the picture.  Men felt superior to others if he consumed rare and expensive animal foods.  It's all a bunch of malarky and has nothing to do with 'necessary animal protein' or health or anything positive.  Killing animals is never positive - it's an affront to love, to life and to the Creator Himself.  

Have no doubt: the forthcoming consensus will declare that wanton animal slaughter is sinful and criminal.  Just as the Constitution speaks for us, we speak for the animals who speak no english. 

[Shemaya]

We are doing well with time travel and remote view. I have to say that there are no clear concepts of the future in this forum. Eating meat after the shift? Comical. You should see the look on the faces of the regular folk that transition the shift. Nobody is ready. And even after acclimation the new senses will be revolted at causing suffering. You can't hide from it. And you can't hide The nature you choose to be.

Brown Eye, your remarks are leaving us hanging for a follow- up.  And the condescension is disempowering to people who are navigating their way through the shift.  

Do you mind answering the questions you were asked?  Or do you just pop in to make jabs because you are so advanced and better than others?

[Shemaya]

.  Killing animals is never positive - it's an affront to love, to life and to the Creator Himself.  

Have no doubt: the forthcoming consensus will declare that wanton animal slaughter is sinful and criminal.  Just as the Constitution speaks for us, we speak for the animals who speak no english. 

Indolering, you obviously have strong convictions about what to eat.

What do you think about people in the developing world ( like Cambodia or Kenya or tribes in South America)raising animals for food?   Commonly in the developing world there are small individual farmers and local food production. Should they be punished for their sins or crimes? Do you think there should be legislation that outlaws their way of life?

[Marc]

I am a vegan of two years now. I think if we want to be most efficient with our energy intake we will eat a mostly plant based diet. It important to realize that we recieve the intense fear based energy when we eat animal products that have been raised in fear and suffering. All things are permissible, but some are just way easier for everyone involved. People are already punishing themselves by eating most meats. In those African cultures they have survived but I wouldn't say they thrived with their agricultural systems with the amount of overgrazing and desertification they have caused. I respect their culture, but many are just unaware of the far reaching effects of their actions. Anyways... The same can be said of most agricultural systems except the chinampa systems and food forest systems of old...

People recieve the pain they inflict into their food into their own energy fields. It's just easier to be more compassionate to myself, than to eat my own kind needlessly. The biggest animals, whales, evolve to eat the smallest food, plankton. It's the most energy efficient model and extremely peaceful. Karma is a law, do you want to factory farm yourself into a frightening alien harvest of your body complexes (see Jupiter Arising for reference)? It's always nicer to show a gentle touch to ourselves than a brutal slaughter.

[Shemaya]

I am a vegan of two years now. I think if we want to be most efficient with our energy intake we will eat a mostly plant based diet.

Hi Marc,
I think energy operates on many levels other than food, food is the just the physical material.  If we want to be efficient with our energy, I think we would pay really close attention to our thoughts and emotions because those are what have a much greater impact in spiritual evolution.  Not that diet has no relevance, but in transitioning to 4d, our thoughts and emotions constitute our energetic field.

It important to realize that we recieve the intense fear based energy when we eat animal products that have been raised in fear and suffering.

 
When I was a child I craved steak.  Do you think children have naturally lower vibration or higher than the adults and people around them?

 As I child I needed the energy steak provided me, because it help my physical body to live and be more comfortable and healthy in the environment I was in, steak helped and sustained my physical body.  My environment was emotionally and psychologically toxic.  As an adult, I have control over my social environment and it is no longer toxic, and I don't like to eat steak.

My point is, there are many social, cultural, and environmental factors that contribute to what food nourishes our chemical body. However, the most effective changes we can make to help the globe and our society are the light body ( thoughts and energy) purification that we do.  I would like to paraphrase Christ, the saying goes something like..." It's not what we put into our bodies ....."

All things are permissible, but some are just way easier for everyone involved. People are already punishing themselves by eating most meats. In those African cultures they have survived but I wouldn't say they thrived with their agricultural systems with the amount of overgrazing and desertification they have caused. I respect their culture, but many are just unaware of the far reaching effects of their actions. Anyways... The same can be said of most agricultural systems except the chinampa systems and food forest systems of old...

People recieve the pain they inflict into their food into their own energy fields. It's just easier to be more compassionate to myself, than to eat my own kind needlessly. The biggest animals, whales, evolve to eat the smallest food, plankton. It's the most energy efficient model and extremely peaceful. Karma is a law, do you want to factory farm yourself into a frightening alien harvest of your body complexes (see Jupiter Arising for reference)? It's always nicer to show a gentle touch to ourselves than a brutal slaughter.

 
I haven't seen the movie.

I think you are right, people are unaware.  Awareness is key to making any effective changes in our global society, and you are one of the ones to lead the way to change.

Humans are not thriving, not just African cultures, but all of humanity. We are chained and enslaved and need freedom from oppression, we live in a toxic , oppressive society.  

I am having trouble with the approach to dietary changes that doesn't take into account the whole picture and that criminalizes people for their lack of awareness when they are just trying to live and survive.  I think a concerted effort to criminalize factory farming makes total sense, get the corporate profit motive out of the picture.  Then as people become more aware, the change will happen.  But just like issues like criminalizing abortion or homosexuality, I think it is a bad idea and not helpful to move us forward to 4D.

[Shemaya]

I guess the question I have for those who want to free the oppressed, can we unite on on the spiritual concept of freeing others, all of humanity, from oppression?