is it a cop out to medicate?

[Oceania]

i'm struggling between two views. my mom's view is medicate, see a doctor, your brain is fawlty. then there's my spiritual side which is like you can't do that, that's a cop out, you should meditate, and resolve your issues consciously or spiritually... nag nag nag. what to do? i can't really meditate much in my situation anyway. and if i try in complete silence i end up falling asleep.

does meditation cure all? Ra keeps saying meditate huh?

also, do you think using beta-blockers is bad for the chakras?

i mean, we're supposed to achieve some stuff but i'm not looking to be an adept here. i dunno why i have to be such a basket case or what good it does.

[Monica]

You have more than just those 2 options. You could pursue alternative therapies. You haven't stated what the condition is, but I believe virtually every condition can be healed, using natural therapies. I've observed amazing conditions reversed. You have lots of options!

Alternative therapies (utilizing nutritional and lifestyle changes) work better than drugs because they get to the root of the problem. And they don't have side effects.

I don't think meditation cures all, though there might be some who have successfully healed themselves by meditation and sheer will. But for most situations, it makes sense to address the issue on both a spiritual and a physical level. I wouldn't ignore the physical.

[zenmaster]

The body follows the mind. There will ultimately only be healing if there is acceptance and balance, regardless of therapy used. I think these physical dispositions are serving to put catalyst more directly 'in the face'.

[Monica]

The body follows the mind. There will ultimately only be healing if there is acceptance and balance, regardless of therapy used. I think these physical dispositions are serving to put catalyst more directly 'in the face'.

Agreed. Until the mind is ready to accept healing, nothing physical will work. But, when the mind is ready to accept healing, then the appropriate physical remedies will be made available.

[turtledude23]

I think I understand what you're going through, I tried to be a new age puritan for over a year, I wouldn't even take advil when I had a cold or headache. Talking to a psychologist/psychotherapist/psychiatrist once every week or two might be enough to alleviate much of your problems, there's a therapy called CBT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_b...al_therapy) where you identify the automatic thought which generated the feelings/mood you don't like, it is possible to do it on your own but why should you if there's thousands of medical professionals out there who are willing to help you by listening to you and giving advice, it really reduces the burden on you. It is possible in theory to cure all thought sheer will power, meditation, visualizing, belief, etc. but forcing yourself into that kind of ascetic-mode is unbalanced and can cause other issues.

Questioner: Am I correct, then, in assuming that discipline of the personality, knowledge of self, and control in strengthening of the will would be what any fifth-density entity would see as those things of importance?

Ra: I am Ra. In actuality these things are of importance in third through early seventh densities. The only correction in nuance that we would make is your use of the word, control. It is paramount that it be understood that it is not desirable or helpful to the growth of the understanding, may we say, of an entity by itself to control thought processes or impulses except where they may result in actions not consonant with the Law of One. Control may seem to be a short-cut to discipline, peace, and illumination. However, this very control potentiates and necessitates the further incarnative experience in order to balance this control or repression of that self which is perfect.

Instead, we appreciate and recommend the use of your second verb in regard to the use of the will. Acceptance of self, forgiveness of self, and the direction of the will; this is the path towards the disciplined personality. Your faculty of will is that which is powerful within you as co-Creator. You cannot ascribe to this faculty too much importance. Thus it must be carefully used and directed in service-to-others for those upon the positively oriented path.

There is great danger in the use of the will as the personality becomes stronger, for it may be used even subconsciously in ways reducing the polarity of the entity.

And there's another quote, I think it's by Q'uo so I can't find it, it goes something like: living a life that uses catalyst to its fullest efficiency (or focuses too much on spiritual stuff, or something like that) will be emotionally dry/empty (so it's not ideal).

And the fact that this "spiritual side" of yours nags you relentlessly means its not actually your higher self or a guardian angel or something like that because a higher consciousness STO entity would gently give suggestions, relentless annoying nagging to the point of questioning the validity of a medical system which does help the majority of people who use it, sounds more like STS stuff to me. I have a part of my mind like that too, it nags, it tells me to focus on what Ive done wrong and what I can improve, this leads to depression because if all you think about is how you can do better you'll never be happy, it's much better to focus on the things you've done well and the things which make you happy, because then you'll become happier and attract those things you're thinking about.

I've never used prescription medication and I am skeptical of it, but If I was in serious pain of any kind whether physical or mental I would rather risk using it than continuing my suffering. We didn't come here to be self discipline supermen who can levitate mountains with our minds, we came to blend into the societies we were placed in and change the planetary consciousness from the grassroots level in local, non-visible ways. So there's nothing wrong with trying something which works for the majority of people who use it, and there's nothing wrong with being flexible and trying something "un-spiritual" as long as it doesn't hurt anyone in any considerable way.

[Monica]

a higher consciousness STO entity would gently give suggestions, relentless annoying nagging to the point of questioning the validity of a medical system which does help the majority of people who use it, sounds more like STS stuff to me.

I understand and agree with the gist of what you're saying! But I strongly disagree that the medical system helps "the majority" of people.

Just watch the first 4 minutes of this video and you'll understand why I think the conventional medical system is corrupt and actually harms the vast majority of people caught in its clutches.

it's much better to focus on the things you've done well and the things which make you happy, because then you'll become happier and attract those things you're thinking about.

I agree with this for the most part! But sometimes that nagging might be a prompting to get our attention about something. Sometimes not. Discernment comes into play here.

[3DMonkey]

Tell your mom to crack a whip on you.

You should listen to your mom, unless she is being selfish

[Brittany]

All I can say is that medication never helped me with any of my mental distortions. I think there are a LOT of people taking medications just to dull out their problems when they need to be balancing and healing them. However, there are some people who are seriously ill, who will hurt themselves or others if left to their own devices. In some cases, medications have allowed people to live fairly normal lives when otherwise they would either be in jail or in a mental hospital...or dead. And when it comes to physical problems...if I had some horrible disease and there was a pill that would cure it with no adverse side effects, I would take the pill. God helps those who help themselves, you know? However, I am not going to pop pills every time I get vaguely depressed, or I have excess energy, or my thoughts don't quite follow the mainstream definition of "normal". I have an infinite number of other outlets for those issues that do not involve putting chemicals into my body that will stay there for a a long, long time.

[BrownEye]

IMO most mental issues are hidden behind mineral deficiencies. It is not widely known in mainstream society that many diseases and most mental deficiencies are short circuits in the bodily system resulting in a less than 100% functional state. Just a small amount of research and common sense will bring you to that understanding.

[kycahi]

Dear Basket Case--oops I mean Ocean:

I would not be stubbornly doctrinaire about anything. Try something and decide whether you are better off, short term and long term. If you meditate, you will be better equipped to determine things like this. Because you fall asleep when you try to meditate, then work on that.

I was in a Zen group where a guy would quietly walk around in front of everybody, carrying a flat stick. If somebody bowed when he was there, he would smack their back with the stick. By golly, that woke them up for awhile!

How about a cup of coffee or tea prior to attempting meditation? Those affect me for awhile, yet do not require prescription.

Warm hug.

[turtledude23]

IMO most mental issues are hidden behind mineral deficiencies. It is not widely known in mainstream society that many diseases and most mental deficiencies are short circuits in the bodily system resulting in a less than 100% functional state. Just a small amount of research and common sense will bring you to that understanding.

Even after 2 years of being vegetarian, drinking filtered tap water, taking coral calcium, magnesium, B12 , royal jelly, kelp (iodine - for thyroid gland) and other supplements, meanwhile not eating junk food or drinking pop I still had depression until a month ago when I went back to a school to a program I really enjoy full of classmate and professors I like alot. If I wasn't in school for more than a week and if I didn't see my friends on a regular basis, or wasn't doing something else enjoyable to fill the time, I would most likely fall back into depression until I'd get back to something enjoyable. Also I've had mild ADD all my life which was never alleviated by anything I did. Therefore I disagree that it's mineral deficiencies.

[Monica]

do you think using beta-blockers is bad for the chakras?

I have no idea what that particular drug does to the chakras, but I do know that there are many natural alternatives. Please feel free to pm me if you like.

[3DMonkey]

The body complex is a direct manifestation of the mind and spirit complexes.

What ever you believe is a problem is a problem. Whatever you believe will work will work. There are vibrations out the wazoo. Find your rhythm.

The basketball game is over, and I've had odd vibrations throughout te seires. I have finally concluded that it is because I am sharing 'watching' with people of my past. The vibrations are connecting us.
We discussed Jesus today, and the mention by Ra was how vibrations in a song allow negative pathways. That lyrics derived from falsehood, vibrational configurations of long ago, are connected. It's figuratively unbelievable.

Be okay with current vibrations. Be focused on changing Current vibrations. Do your love thing.

[BrownEye]

Even after 2 years of being vegetarian, drinking filtered tap water, taking coral calcium, magnesium, B12 , royal jelly, kelp (iodine - for thyroid gland) and other supplements, meanwhile not eating junk food or drinking pop I still had depression until a month ago when I went back to a school to a program I really enjoy full of classmate and professors I like alot. If I wasn't in school for more than a week and if I didn't see my friends on a regular basis, or wasn't doing something else enjoyable to fill the time, I would most likely fall back into depression until I'd get back to something enjoyable. Also I've had mild ADD all my life which was never alleviated by anything I did. Therefore I disagree that it's mineral deficiencies.

Exactly how would you know if or what mineral you may be lacking without tests? I became deficient in Silicon and Magnesium after going vegan, which caused joint issues. Once I found what I was lacking I dealt with it and all joint issues went away quickly.

The whole problem arose from detoxing too fast. A high rate detox will many times remove minerals at a high rate.

But, you are free to believe you are defective

Any research on synthesized drugs will show you that they also leech minerals out of your body, among other things.

If I went to a doctor as an oblivious individual he would have prescribed drugs for joint pain without ever addressing the source of the problem.

[Monica]

The whole problem arose from detoxing too fast. A high rate detox will many times remove minerals at a high rate.

Oh yes, I found that out the hard way too!

[Ankh]

Once I found what I was lacking I dealt with it and all joint issues went away quickly.

This might be a result of your mind influencing your body. You strongly believe in it, thus your mind exercising power over your body by giving you a result which you find probable/possible. And this is right for you personally. Someone else believes in something else, that which rings true to that other person, thus doing something different, and gets the same/positive result as the result of mind exercising power of that body.

[Namaste]

While the new age movement promotes positive healing and belief to heal the self, there are proven biological and neuroscience models behind thinking positively to overcome illness. In an exceedingly brief nutshell...

The innate (mysterious) intelligence of nature creates you, me, and all life. It turns one cell into a human, and a seed into a plant/flower/tree. In the correct conditions, cells are guided by this intelligence in which to duplicate and repair/maintain.

When one has negative thoughts (for example which lead to stress and anxiety), chemicals are released into the body that are detrimental to cellular performance; the cells do not have the food and energy they need in which to repair themselves properly. These chemicals, over extended periods of time, are actually damaging to the health and structure of the cells. Combine the two and the result is damaged cells, that continue to deteriorate, which are also incapable of self-repair.

Conversely, when one thinks positively, the brain triggers the release of chemicals that are beneficial to the efficiency and operation of the organism's cells. The cells are 'fed' with a superior 'food' and are hence able to repair themselves very quickly and efficiently. Maintaining positive thought is akin to having a well oiled and maintained physical nano-engine.

Of course, there are the underlying benefits of the positive energy/life force that is drawn through your being as time elapses, which also aid in the quality of the physical vehicle. I mention the biology side of things as often those of a spiritual nature are inclined to focus only on the metaphysical. Understanding the healing mechanics of our biological vehicles aids to strengthen broader understanding and belief within the individual. And we all know how powerful belief is in this experience :¬)

Meditation is an aid to calming the mind and producing peace and positivity. One need not limit themselves to self healing during meditation; it is an ongoing process one will naturally induce when polarising on the path of STO and choosing love (uplifting gratitude for all of your many blessings is as an excellent example) in each moment.

[Oceania]

thanks so much you guys, you have given me lots of food for thought. what a great thread! i agree with you Turtle and Pickle both cuz i think mineral deficiencies and also lack of purpose and activity in life both cause depression. since the brain needs to focus on something if you don't feed it it will start to create things to focus on. and if there's deficiency you can't fight it so easily.

i do agree the medical industry is often harmful, but it's up to the individual to be their own doctor, i never go to a doctor without researching myself.

[Monica]

Medicate

[Oceania]

you audioslave

[native]

Even after 2 years of being vegetarian, drinking filtered tap water, taking coral calcium, magnesium, B12 , royal jelly, kelp (iodine - for thyroid gland) and other supplements, meanwhile not eating junk food or drinking pop I still had depression until a month ago when I went back to a school to a program I really enjoy full of classmate and professors I like alot. If I wasn't in school for more than a week and if I didn't see my friends on a regular basis, or wasn't doing something else enjoyable to fill the time, I would most likely fall back into depression until I'd get back to something enjoyable. Also I've had mild ADD all my life which was never alleviated by anything I did. Therefore I disagree that it's mineral deficiencies.

I've found that contentment/depression is a choice. You can choose to be happy or choose to be sad. It is a paradoxically complex but simple choice that involves a lot of self-reflection.

I cured years of depression in one summer by deciding that life was good. I've found that when you are depressed, you find comfort in reaffirming that "my life sucks." Sulking is a familiar feeling, and you feel comforted by being the victim..that everything isn't your fault.

Being out in the sun is important. There are the obvious metaphysical connections, and it produces vitamin d3 in your body.

[Oceania]

it's not a conscious choice. i think calling it a choice when someone conscioioisly doesn't want to be sad is fawlty. maybe subconsciously we find comfort in sadness because at least you don't expect to fall from a pit, it's still not the preferred thing. to me, i'm so used to having problems that to not have them scares me because the higher you climb the harder you fall. and i think it's not unreasonable to feel that way.

[native]

Remaining in the depressive state is a choice is what I mean.

"when someone doesn't want to be sad is faulty"....implies that the effects of catalyst are independent of the observer. But how we interpret and experience catalyst is complete up to us. You can reach a state where something may stimulate you one way or another, but you don't let it override your emotions.

[Oceania]

i didn't say someone who doesn't want to be sad is fawlty. my point is that it's not a conscious choice to remain sad.

[3DMonkey]

Not always, no.

I have my ups and downs. I have a low bar, though. If I make it thru this entire incarnation without suicide or giving up on my family, I have succeeded .

Let depression come. Embrace it as valid. Go from there.

I still think you should listen to your mom unless you think she is out to destroy you.

[JoshC]

i'm struggling between two views. my mom's view is medicate, see a doctor, your brain is fawlty. then there's my spiritual side which is like you can't do that, that's a cop out, you should meditate, and resolve your issues consciously or spiritually... nag nag nag. what to do? i can't really meditate much in my situation anyway. and if i try in complete silence i end up falling asleep.

does meditation cure all? Ra keeps saying meditate huh?

also, do you think using beta-blockers is bad for the chakras?

i mean, we're supposed to achieve some stuff but i'm not looking to be an adept here. i dunno why i have to be such a basket case or what good it does.

I didn't read any other responses because I just felt like it

I was having panic attacks and deep depressive bouts (suicidal several times) last year until I started taking Wellbutrin, which helped lessen the severity of the slumps. Personally, I wouldn't have had it any other way - to make my life less of a living hell was a decision I was very ready for then and I would repeat if it were to happen again (it won't, but the idea is to tell you what I think of it now - that even though I don't dwell on the past, I would make the same decision given similar circumstances).

I think that helping yourself to feel better is a better decision than worrying about what other people care about the decision you make. To label it a "cop out" to me indicates that you're caring what others think of your decision. Truly, what you're going through affects first and foremost yourself, and what others tell you to do or think of what you do doesn't matter diddly squat.

I've since moved away from 99% of my anxious and depressive thoughts, feelings, and thought patterns, which is mostly what I attribute to being rid of the conditions. I only say this to possibly help you to identify a possible avenue of where your mind is helping create this condition. If not, like Q'uo emphasizes, leave the information behind

Tl;dr: Do what you want and what makes you feel best. What others think of what you do affects only them, unless you let (out of habit possibly) it affect you.

Best of luck and namasté

[Monica]

I still think you should listen to your mom unless you think she is out to destroy you.

Moms might mean well but they aren't necessarily knowledgeable about all the options. The vast majority of people (in the US anyway) think conventional drugs are the only option.

[3DMonkey]

I still think you should listen to your mom unless you think she is out to destroy you.

Moms might mean well but they aren't necessarily knowledgeable about all the options. The vast majority of people (in the US anyway) think conventional drugs are the only option.

I have a hunch, though, that mom knows Ocean best

[Oceania]

she isn't out to destroy me. although sometimes it feels like it. i'm sure she feels the same about me. she actually thinks i should do supplements but i keep telling her it's not enough. i have quite severe OCD and panic attacks/moodswings and supplements make subtle differences when you have a lifetime of messed up thought. i used to take citalopram aka celexa but everyone knows that stops working soon, otherwise i'd still be on it, it's the best med there is. made me feel stable and happy. it was amazing. i was like a normal person there.

Josh, you're right, i do care about what others think, cuz they might know something i don't. i look to others if i don't have a strong opinion.

[BrownEye]

Being out in the sun is important. There are the obvious metaphysical connections, and it produces vitamin d3 in your body.

Yes! this is one of those things overlooked with depression, D3. Kind of why depression is the norm in areas of the world that receive less sunlight.