(03-26-2010, 06:07 PM)Lorna Wrote: sorry monica, i wasn't meaning in respect to this thread, sorry if it came across that i was
OK thank you for that! I took it to mean about this thread, since this thread and the other vegetarian thread are the only places I am discussing it, and because it seemed to be directed at me, with the use of the word 'you.'
(03-26-2010, 06:07 PM)Lorna Wrote: i was meaning more generally in life, i agree that those who participate in the veggie debate voluntarily are inviting their point of view, regardless of that point of view, to be up for discussion because it is a divisive topic
In everyday life, I NEVER approach someone about what they are eating. Ever. The only time it comes up is when they offer me meat, in which case I politely decline and say, "No thanks, I'm a vegetarian." Then, IF they ask me why, I tell them. Even then, I don't get graphic. I probably do a lot less for the animals than I should. If anything, I let my apprehension about offending anyone get in the way of championing the animals. In other words, I'm wishy-washy and a disgrace to animal rights activists! I try to be tactful and just say something lame like, "It's for health, ethical, spiritual, and environmental reasons." Then, if the conversation continues, that is, IF they continue to ask me about it, I usually cite statistics about vegetarians living longer and having drastically reduced risk of just about every major disease (cancer, heart disease, diabetes, stroke, obesity, etc.). I focus on what a veggie diet will do FOR THEM, not how it would help animals. I know from experience that people will make dietary changes if it serves themselves, rather than to help the animals.
(03-26-2010, 06:07 PM)Lorna Wrote: i guess what i was thinking of when i wrote that post was you talking about your friend who now asks customers she is serving whether they understand the pain that the fish felt, that just feels, to me, intrusive to the customer being served. does that customer leave the interaction with your friend feeling uplifted, empowered, lighter from their interaction with your friend, or guilty, angry, upset? by having that interaction it's not just asking a question, it's asking a highly emotionally loaded question, for very sincere and heartfelt reasons, but it's still a loaded question
I don't know how the customers react because I'm not there. That is her style; it's not my style. But what's wrong with asking a loaded question? Why is feeling guilt to be avoided? Doesn't guilt have a purpose? If we were living 2 centuries ago, and were trying to free the 'slaves' would we care about the 'slaveowner' feeling guilt? Wouldn't guilt be a good thing in that case?
Why is presenting the facts (the slaves are suffering and deserve their freedom/the animals are being tortured) triggering feelings of guilt? If there were nothing to feel guilty about, would they be feeling guilt?
And if the guilt is justified, then aren't we doing them a DISservice by denying them their own feelings of guilt, by walking on eggshells and keeping the facts hidden?
I'm not saying my friend's approach is the best one to use in all circumstances. But if you were to meet her, OMG you would be dazzled! Her light is so bright! She has such a beauty, such an innocent, childlike marveling of all of Life, that is conveyed by her very being! This is a person, who, like our dear fairyfarmgirl, feels the beating of the Earth's heart. She will squeal with delight at the sight of a spider spinning its web...at the dewdrops on the grass...at the song of a bird...She feels such a Oneness with all of Nature and it's conveyed by her eyes, her intense emotions...And this is a person who struggled with the meat issue for 29 years.
I know this because it was she who gave me the book that changed my life...Survival Into the 21st Century: Planetary Healers' Manual by Viktoras Kulvinskas. She gave it to me as a Christmas gift 29 years ago. We both read it and became vegetarians immediately.
But, I stayed a vegetarian and she didn't. She struggled for all these years, on and off vegetarian. Until the last couple of years, when she has had a momentous shift in consciousness. She has changed...in many ways, not just diet. She is a 'green witch' and make anything grow...anything! The plants love her. She can take a tiny cutting and it will become a beautiful plant. She has about 20 cats. Stray cats and dogs know where she lives and tell their friends! She is an advocate for plants and animals, an ally. And now, her body too has changed. She no longer craves meat. She is now repulsed by it. But because of her inner struggle back when she did crave it, she has compassion for those who still do.
So I trust her to uplift those around her on this issue. It is one that is dear to her heart.
I do appreciate your concern. I can see why her approach might sound rather abrasive, which is why I felt compelled to give you more background on this very special person.
(03-26-2010, 06:07 PM)Lorna Wrote: i don't know... i don't seem to be expressing myself very well at the moment. i just sense indignation within you and the reason i posted is that, personally, i haven't found that perspective on this topic to be helpful to me and so i wanted to share my experience.
I admit I did feel somewhat hurt and indignant. I had to do some soul-searching and in fact just wrote a long email to the other mods asking them to read these threads and whether I should delete my posts or back out of the discussion. It is NOT my intention to make anyone feel judged! But, like Pablisimo shared, neither do I feel that we must censor ourselves from expressing our views on a thread dedicated to those very views! I think the reason I reacted as I did is that I normally do refrain from voicing my opinion, day in and day out...yes, every single day I see people eat dead animals, and every single day I keep my mouth shut, and I just didn't think I had to do that on a thread about this very topic. Already, I have censored my comments a great deal. I have toned down my true passion to a great degree. I have refrained from posting graphic videos of animal cruelty...which I would surely have posted on other forums (if they were having the same discussion). But I didn't post them here.
I think ALL our views are valuable, including those that are less popular. But the bottom line is that we're not talking about animal suffering in other threads...only in the meat/veg threads.
(03-26-2010, 06:07 PM)Lorna Wrote: my sincere apologies if i have misunderstood or caused you upset
Thank you and peace to you!