07-23-2012, 08:57 AM
My responses in BOLD.
Might I suggest a few things for thought here.
The mind/body/spirit complex which you refer to is only totality when you consider totality as One. The problem which you create in your speculation is that you use the totality of individual consciousness to be your higher self identity, excluding the fact that if all is one then that total mind/body/spirit complex must include the All. In other words we cannot apply totality when we want to use it to define our future self, and disregard the fact that true totality would automatically imply that the Highest Self of All must be included in that totality.
So if we are to speak of a higher self based upon a total complex system of mind/spirit/body, than this higher self of which we speak must then be the One Consciousness of the All.
This I would agree with completely. This would make complete sense of all that Ra has said. And this would solve the present dilemmas and paradoxes of your speculations and theories.
Nextly, we cannot have our cake and eat it too which what your Ouroboros is trying to do. If creation is Infinite, than by the defintion of Infinity creation is not finished. If it is not finished and the Mystery continues, then so does possibility and the free will of choice. And so continues the evolving experiences of each fragmented consciousness, and the All.
All of these paradoxes are created when you try to make your speculations of simultaneity work, and when you try to suggest that infinity is over NOW.
If you consider what I am proposing, these paradoxes do not exist, creation continues to develop, the One continues to evolve, choice continues to be the ingredient which enables catalyst for change, and the future is Mystery.
There are simply too many contradictions and paradoxes within your proposal to rationally consider as possible truth.
(07-23-2012, 02:13 AM)anagogy Wrote:(07-22-2012, 07:30 PM)ShinAr Wrote: Anagogy, I can still suggest that it is possible that Ra is using metaphor ad you are doing the same thing that Bible interpreted have done by trying to take it literally.
Yes, you can suggest that. Just as I can suggest it is not metaphor, and that you are twisting Ra's words to make it fit your preconceived notions of how the universe works. And I say that without the slightest shred of hostility, Shin'Ar. Honestly, I'm only interested in truth here. If you convinced me you were right, I would hop on your band wagon in a second. I just haven't been convinced as of yet.
No offense is taken when words are applied as eloquently and responsibly as you are using them my friend.
I would also like to point out that the social memory complex of Ra is very particular with their language. They have said before that, "Due to our orientation with regard to data, even the most specifically answered question would be 'worded by our group in such a way as to maximize the accuracy of the nuances of the answer'. This, however, mitigates against what your critic desires in the way of simple, lucid prose."
And to be honest, whenever Ra uses metaphor they are usually quick to point out that is just a metaphor, such as in 50.7 with the poker game metaphor.
(07-22-2012, 07:30 PM)ShinAr Wrote: I would like to hear how you or anyone following this thread, would answer the questions I have posted above, and now below for reference sake?
If you are correct in your declaration and conclusion and it is truth, than why would one already having reached higher being see it fitting to assist its lower self to reach that which has already been acquired? If already achieved what is the purpose of such assistance?
One of the problems is you are looking at the past as something that is over and done with. This is emphatically not so. Everything is simultaneous. It is totally understandable that this would not make sense looking at it from a linear standpoint. From a linear standpoint, once you pass a temporal benchmark, there is no reason to go back to it. I would submit to you that it is not so cut and dry. Everything is happening NOW.
If your premise is correct than the past has not really happened and memory is not truth.
The sixth density future self had assistance from its future self when it was in lower densities. What better teacher to guide you than your own self? Who would know you better? Who would be more likely to have your best interests at heart when giving you guidance?
You ask why the higher self would help its past self to achieve what it has already acquired. I can understand your confusion. When you come to understand that the sixth density being is operating almost completely out of time, it becomes less confusing. You can even take time almost completely out of the equation, for simplicity's sake. You could simply look at it as a 3rd density being asking for help, and a sixth density being offering its wisdom. The confusion only enters into the situation when you forget that nothing is over and done with. It's just that, in this particular circumstance of interaction with the "higher self", the sixth density being you are communicating with just happens to be your future self.
But what you are automatically implying in considering that you have a higher self in a simultaneously existing reality is that all of creation is already completed. What you are saying is that because the future and past and present all exist in the NOW, then all that exists is existing NOW, meaning that all that exists is done and concluded. Your speculation removes the possible future, and suggests that all that can be done has been done. And the only way that your speculation of simultaneity to work is if you take the unknown future of a continuing creation out of the dynamic. But in drawing that line, in creating that scenario, your circle is no longer infinite. Your ouroboros is not consuming its tail, it has choked on its tail and is now dead.
(07-22-2012, 07:30 PM)ShinAr Wrote: If existence has no end and no beginning, and all is present tense, than the choice which you make in this very moment, is of no future consequence, so what would be the necessity for advice or guidance from a Higher self, when all is already done, despite any choice you might now make?
While I can appreciate the question, Shin'Ar, I have to tell you, it is misconceived. The reason why it is misconceived is it implies that your decisions right now don't matter. This is not so. They matter very much. They matter to you, and to those you interact with. Ra has described the higher self principle as a map in which the destination is known. You will, eventually, consciously rejoin the One. That is rest assured. Does the fact that you will inevitably cross the finish line mean the journey is pointless? Of course not.
It was never about the destination, it was always about the journey. We aren't trying to "get" anywhere, or "learn" something. It's all about the experience. ALL experiences are enfolded in the One. All of it already exists. The pathways of experience are just roads that consciousness may travel down. Just because a sixth density being has already traveled down the road you are about to, does NOT invalidate the beauty and majesty and value of the experience for YOU. It's a moving continuum of consciousness. All experience-roads are being explored by the creator.
What you have done here is avoid answering the actual question by dropping the IF aspect of my question and responded as though I actually suggested that life has no purpose or that the journey does not matter, which is not what I have said here at all. I clearly stated that IF your speculation is accurate THEN the journey would have no meaning because all is already complete and all chopices have already been made. However I do NOT believe that to be accurate or true and so the IF is the biggest part of that question which you really did not answer. Would you reconsider the question as it was actually asked?
Also, remember that having a future self that exists in sixth density does *not* negate free will. Please keep this in mind. Your choices are still your choices, and they do matter. It is a psychological trap to assume otherwise just because you have a future self that has been through it all already. It is just disturbing to the human intellect. Trust me, I know. Time is incredibly difficult to wrap one's intellect around.
(07-22-2012, 07:30 PM)ShinAr Wrote: If Infinity has no beginning and no end, then why do you suggest that creation is already completed? Would that not be an end?
There is a beginning and end to this particular octave. Anything that has a beginning, inevitably has an ending as well. Infinity had no beginning, and so it can have no end. The ending of our octave is not determined by time, but is an experiential cycle. It ends for you, when you complete 7th density. That's when you return to the still point, where a new octave is birthed from.
(07-22-2012, 07:30 PM)ShinAr Wrote: If creation is fully completed in this present moment, and the Creator experiences only that which is already fulfilled, then not only is there no need for further guidance from higher self, but higher self has nothing to look forward to.
The higher self, being of a certain progression within sixth density, has 7th density to look forward to, which it has not yet experienced, despite it having its own higher self, the mind/body/spirit complex totality, which has already experienced 7th density.
This is what I have been trying to point out. What you are doing here by trying to make your speculation work is drawing a line where higher self ends. When you speak of higher self you are speaking of it as though it is an entity of some identity from the future which is the same entity/identity that you are now. And you are suggesting that it continues to evolve into higher density having no higher self because it has not reached that point yet. This totally contradicts what you are saying about your present state of being. As well as contradicting what you have said about time being simultaneous and everything being NOW.
Yet when you apply your thinking to that future 6th or 7th density identity of your self, all of a sudden time seems to be of a 'future' dynamic in that it has no higher self in this octave and seeks to reach that state of being.
You have called creation infinite, and yet clearly designated timelines within it including ends and beginnings. The only difference between our definitions of time is that you try to clear up the confusion of your speculation by designating octaves.
If you were to consider The All truly as timeless and simultaneous there would be no need for designating time-points or cyclical turning points.
If you have any questions about what I've written here, I'm happy to answer them.
Might I suggest a few things for thought here.
The mind/body/spirit complex which you refer to is only totality when you consider totality as One. The problem which you create in your speculation is that you use the totality of individual consciousness to be your higher self identity, excluding the fact that if all is one then that total mind/body/spirit complex must include the All. In other words we cannot apply totality when we want to use it to define our future self, and disregard the fact that true totality would automatically imply that the Highest Self of All must be included in that totality.
So if we are to speak of a higher self based upon a total complex system of mind/spirit/body, than this higher self of which we speak must then be the One Consciousness of the All.
This I would agree with completely. This would make complete sense of all that Ra has said. And this would solve the present dilemmas and paradoxes of your speculations and theories.
Nextly, we cannot have our cake and eat it too which what your Ouroboros is trying to do. If creation is Infinite, than by the defintion of Infinity creation is not finished. If it is not finished and the Mystery continues, then so does possibility and the free will of choice. And so continues the evolving experiences of each fragmented consciousness, and the All.
All of these paradoxes are created when you try to make your speculations of simultaneity work, and when you try to suggest that infinity is over NOW.
If you consider what I am proposing, these paradoxes do not exist, creation continues to develop, the One continues to evolve, choice continues to be the ingredient which enables catalyst for change, and the future is Mystery.
There are simply too many contradictions and paradoxes within your proposal to rationally consider as possible truth.