In regards to eating meat

[Ankh]

Pablisímo, thank you, my brother, for your reply. Although I don't agree on some points with you, I believe that I understand them now. I understand where you are coming from, and with your explanations I was able to understand others of similar opinions. I understand now that some people may consider that "shocking" method, or "in your face/throat" method, may serve their goal, without consideration for another self because of the intensity of their own experiences.

I've also had some of my views strengthened and expanded by people on this thread who DO agree with me.

By participating here I now experience an understanding, but not only because of the people who agree with me, but also because of those who do not. I think that I am now able to understand the vegetarians with an extreme approach to the matter, and also the so called "meat-eaters" with an extreme approach to the matter. Your participation added *a lot* to an understanding of those who are VERY strong biased towards vegetarian food choice. Thank you.

Basically, I consider this an appropriate place for vegetarians and meat eaters alike to discuss and debate our biased views. I look at it as an "OPT-IN" situation because no'one is forced to read the thread who does not wish to participate, which is different than billboards that you drive past and see without intentionally seeking it out.

What are your views on that? Do you consider posts from vegetarians who strongly, strongly, advocate their position and argue against the meat eating position to be too "in your face"? Or do you see a distinction between a conversation in this discussion forum and, say, the PETA billboards? Honestly, I think this thread may well be one of the very few places where it is perfectly acceptable to strongly convey our own views. I feel it is best done with the understanding that we must respect eachother we are all distorted/biased, and that we may not ultimately agree, but here seems like the right place to do it.

I have difficulties with an approach that is of an "extremist" point of view, or as you put it, "VERY direct and biased". I think now that I understand where it is coming from. However, I am still uneased when one "side" uses disrespectful tone when speaking to the "other" side, and pressing their opinions on them. I definitely think that this is something that we should discuss here, and especially if one has a strong and direct bias - this is the place for understanding!

I don't know what PETA is, but of course it is different to pass by an add and not have any choice but to look at it, and reading threads in this forum. However, this is a community I am a part of. When there are very disharmonious energies in one place - do you ignore it? Or do you try to look at it and understand? I don't buy the arguments like: if you don't like it here, no one is forcing you to be a member of this forum, it is optional. Or - it is optional to read this thread, so don't do it if you don't like it. Are we not one? Why then create this separation, and foremost by members who are consciously trying to understand the Law of *One*? Do you understand where I am coming from? This is probably the most disharmonious thread on this forum. Why would any member ignore it?

I"d just like to state for the record, since there has been so much tension, that I don't ask that question to trap you, and whatever your answer is, I will respect it. I just honestly have been perplexed why some people seem to resent that those with a different view are arguing their case here. I thought this was the whole point of a specific thread for this contentious, yet important, topic and my confusion is genuine.

Never entered my mind that you would trap me, my brother.

I can't speak for others, but what I believe that I have observed here is the lack of the respect that has been missing many times in this thread. Do you agree with that observation?

I believe that any topic of discussion, no matter how volatile or sensitive it is, could and should be discussed in this forum; but when/if members apply respect and consideration when speaking to each other, no matter how their opinions are unlike each other, there will be more harmonious discussions.

For me, though, advocating for animal rights is part of my growth process. I see animals as Other-Selves, and right now there is a vast system of suffering and cruelty in place on earth to raise meat that I don't believe is necessary. I "hear" this dull throbbing scream in the ether from millions of other beings, and it affects me. It could be my own internal distortions, of course, but this is who I am and this is how I feel about it. I don't expect agreement about my views, but I hope that understanding of where I am coming from is at least possible.

Thank you for telling this. I believe that I, now, gained understanding for those coming from the place you are coming from.

What I do when I'm going to a function where the majority of food is meat-based is simply eat something before I go. That way, I'm not too hungry and can just nibble on whatever bread or fruit or whatever small thing there is to eat. Another thing I do is carry some 'emergency snacks' with me in case some situation happens unexpectedly. For me, it's more about opting-out of the system as much as I am able and not stimulating demand. I actually think there is value in being an example for other people. I would never push my dietary views on someone else, especially at a family function, but I see just generally being a nice person who happens to not eat meat as HELPING the cause. People notice and it might prompt them to do some research and investigate how they feel about the topic. Maybe it's my own distortions again, I never claimed to be unbiased, but this is a positive way to be, I feel.

Totally understand what you mean, just don't agree with it.

I am thinking that *if* people do notice what I do and do not eat, it might make them uneasy and concerned that I am not eating what they have to offer. Out of concern for other selves, I would choose in the future when/if going veg, to not announce my at that time vegetarian food choice.

I also believe that there exists pride many times when vegetarians convey their food choice, and I believe that taking no pride in any of the choices is the right path (for me).

But even in this space, I have a different perspective. I feel that when I ingest meat, I'm polluting my bodily temple. I understand that this is my unique and subjective impression, and I don't claim it to be objective truth, but it is honestly how I feel. So, for me to ingest meat to avoid the other person buying and working more does not honor myself. That slides from STO behavior into martyrdom -- FOR ME. Given these personal factors, I opt instead to eat first and not ask the other person to buy or prepare anything special or extra. I don't belittle your perspective, here I merely share my own.

Again, thank you for sharing. I don't share these distortions, but I understand now.

Alas, I have never been to fair Sweden, but I hope to make it there one day.

If you ever do, it would be a true honor to meet you, my dear another self.

So, I can't comment on the specific term, but I have encountered the term "biological" in other countries in Northern (Well, NW) Europe, such as Holland & Germany. Perhaps that is what you mean?

It is called "ecological" in Sweden. Don't know about the "biological" term.

Sister, I think I share your struggle with this. If there is one thing that pushes my buttons, it's people forcing their views on another. We had a new member who in the past spent alot of time pressing his views on others in a hundred different threads, and I really struggled with acceptance there. I had to pray and meditate on him daily for weeks before I finally got some balance and clarity, and love returned.

Did you see it as an "in your face/throat" technique?

I understand what you are saying here. Definitely! I found peace and understanding in that due the changes I experienced in that person (edit: I mean changes in the approach, and that these same changes apply to myself as well. That there were changes in my approach as well). And now, hopefully, I am very close to finding it in this thread as well. It doesn't change the fact though, that I do experience difficulties when meeting this kind of the technique; when people are pressing their opinions upon others with no consideration and/or respect for another self, or whom they are discussing with.

Do you understand me now? And how I struggle, in the light of the above by you described experiences, with that in this thread?

I'm really working on this right now, so maybe I can share some insight that will help you with your own journey of acceptance. When it comes to these PETA billboards and "in your face" vegetarian approaches, what's underpinning that attitude is concern for the animals. Maybe it's unbalanced, off-center and subjective, but it feels so acute to them. They just hear this ethereal screaming from the abuse of so many, many beings that sometimes they go completely crazy trying to do something about it. This empathy is real, almost physical, and it's hard to ignore. Years ago, I said some things to meat eaters that were really unfair and unkind. I literally felt like meat consumers were supporting the systematic exploitation, torture and murder of my little brothers and sisters. It's not fair our reasonable -- but sometimes emotional reactions aren't logical. It took some growing up and spiritual evolution for me to find a balanced view and more fully integrate compassion for human Other-selves as well as animal Other-selves. I doesn't justify my or their behavior, but may help you to forgive it. I hope so anyway.

Thank you for sharing, my brother.