the amish dont get autism: VACCINES

[Monica]

The real reason that I recommend removing the thread is due to it's remarkable lack of discussion of the issue "through the lens of the Law of One" as you suggest. As a matter of fact, I was not able to locate a single reference to the Law of One or any other Confederation material thus far in the thread.

Well, I do recall mentioning 2D critters...but other than that, yeah, you're right! That's rather disconcerting!

If the moderators intended to use this thread as a test case, I think they should have clearly stated as such, and identified ground rules for the discussion.

My words were 'might be influenced by this thread' meaning that our observation of this thread might be one of many factors influencing how we set up the new sub-forum, word the guidelines, etc. I realize now that my words implied more than I intended! Please let me clarify:

No, we had no such intention. It wasn't an official test case or set-up or anything like that. The thread happened spontaneously. It happened to coincide with our discussions about a new sub-forum. Causal mention was made that this thread might be a good candidate for the new sub-forum. Another comment was made that the H1N1 discussion had gotten a little heated...and we wondered how the new sub-forum might work out. That's it. We were just sort of noticing how this thread was unfolding, that's all.

Shall we try considering the topic through the Law of One?

Sure! Please do!

Here's one of my favorite quotes from Ra regarding disease:

Questioner: I was really questioning about the more basic cause of disease rather than the mechanism of its transmission. I was going back to the root of thought that created the possibility of disease. Could you briefly tell me if I am correct in assuming the general reduction of thought over the long time on planet Earth with respect to the Law of One created a condition whereby what we call disease could develop? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct and perceptive. You, as questioner, begin now to penetrate the outer teachings.

The root cause in this particular society was not so much a bellicose action although there were, shall we say, tendencies, but rather the formation of a money system and a very active trading and development of those tendencies towards greed and power; thus, the enslaving of entities by other entities and the misapprehension of the Creator within each entity.

Let us remember that diseases are very much a product of our own creation. By taking this personal responsibility for our lives and our actions, we can avoid the conspiracy all together. You see, if we are calling the virus into existence, then it really doesn't matter if the vehicle we use to create it is evolution or intentional action on the part of nefarious souls. Our response is the same: Take care of ourselves and learn the lessons that are presented to us. These lessons may include being sick and healing ourselves, our family members, our friends and even strangers. The lessons may also involve encouraging others, that believe that vaccination will help them, to get vaccinated. It may also include providing support to those that choose not to get vaccinated. It's all about service and supporting our fellow humans.

Well said! The only modification I would personally make is that, for those of us who consider vaccines toxic, encouraging someone to get vaccinated is like encouraging them to smoke cigarettes. I respect the free will of those who smoke cigarettes. But I won't encourage something that I believe to be harmful.

Case in point: I have a friend who is bed-ridden and living in a nursing home. She used to be into wholistic health, like me. So I knew she would want to know about the controversy about the swine flu vaccine.

Unfortunately, there isn't much she can do to take responsibility for her own health right now, because of her situation. If I recommended that she not get vaccinated, I would not be able to offer her any alternatives, because there's no way the nurses would let me give her vitamin D, herbs, etc. I can't stay at the nursing home and take care of her. She is on a lot of meds. In short, her healthcare is not my responsibility! Regardless of how she got into this situation, this is where she's at now!

I don't see the vaccine issue as black-and-white. I realize that, for someone in her situation, the choice is based on different criteria than for someone capable of pursuing alternative healing modalities.

Here's what I did: I asked her whether she was being required to get vaccinated. She said no, that they just offered her the vaccine but left the choice to her. She then volunteered the bit of info (which I already knew) that she generally preferred to avoid vaccines, but she might get it this time, since the swine flu was so dangerous and here she was stuck in a nursing home.

She had not been keeping up with the news! She had no access to the internet.

It would have been irresponsible for me to not tell her that there was controversy surrounding the vaccine. It would have been just as irresponsible for me to exaggerate the risks and influence her decision. She is clearly at more risk for flu complications than healthy people...meaning she is also more at risk for vaccine complications!

It's quite a dilemma, but it's her dilemma, not mine. My only responsibility was to to tell her that there is a controversy. She already knew about vaccines in general, and had make her choice to not get vaccinated, or at least only very sparingly, in years past. So, I simply told her that, so far, the swine flu had not been as serious as had been predicted...there had been a few deaths, to be sure, but not on a wide scale as they had thought would happen...although winter was young and it could still mutate and come back stronger later in the winter. I then told her that some doctors were claiming that the vaccine had not been adequately tested, and might possibly be more harmful than the flu itself.

That's it. I just informed her of the controversy. I remained neutral and basically admitted that it was a very grey area. I even told her that if she felt she should get the vaccination, she should go ahead and do it and not feel guilty or worry about it! (So yes, I did actually encourage her, if that was what she felt guided to do.) But, I didn't want her making her decision based on fear or misinformation...and certainly not on propaganda.

I'm her only connection to the outside world. She has no other friends that go to visit her. She has no phone. She gets only what the docs and nurses tell her. She trusts me. I could easily have abused that trust and inflated the dangers of the vaccine and gotten her scared to get vaccinated. But I didn't. I offered the info in a neutral way and left the decision up to her. She is dependent on the medical establishment now. She lives in a different world than I do.

Personally, I reject the idea that a lesson to be learned is to bring attention to the fraud.

Perhaps there is no lesson for you there, which is why you aren't drawn to these issues. But others may indeed have lessons to be learned. Maybe they benefit by realizing that they can take responsibility for their own health instead of relying on a magic bullet, quick fix in a drug...maybe they might awaken a friend working in the drug industry or the media...there are always myriad ways to learn.

In my opinion, doing so simply gives people another reason to play the part of victim and bemoan their fate in life because "other people are doing bad things to them".

True. This does happen. But it can also just as easily go the other way. I know plenty of people playing the victim, but I also know plenty of people who made a conscious choice to quit allowing others to control them (by choosing to not get vaccinated, or whatever) and felt empowered by that choice. It can go either way!

Perhaps the biggest issue that I have with conspiracy theories is that they reinforce the notion that people are not individually responsible for things that happen to them.

I see your point. I see that as being true whether we believe in conspiracy theories or not. For someone not recognizing their personal responsibility and the power of their free will, what's the difference whether they abdicate that responsibility to the nasty power elite, their doctor, their priest, the mainstream media, or the beer companies telling them they'll get lots of girls if they buy that brand of beer?

If someone took a vaccine and later became ill, it seems much more productive to me to focus on how to get better by learning the lesson that the disease offers, rather than to worry about who is to "blame" for the illness (the same could be said of any "misfortune" that befalls an individual). Didn't thousands or even millions of other people take the vaccine and have no ill effect? The illness is clearly the responsibility of the individual.

Ultimately, I agree with you that the illness is the responsibility of the individual.

However, let's try looking at this another way:

To use an analogy, let's look at cigarette smoking. At this point in time, there is a consensus that cigarette smoking is harmful. The data is undisputed that smoking cigarettes drastically increases the risk of a deadly disease, lung cancer.

But, it wasn't always so clear-cut. Back in the early days, there were pioneers who began to suspect a connection between smoking cigs and lung cancer.

Is it not service to others, to speak up about something that is harmful? Haven't many millions of people been helped by the knowledge that smoking is harmful? How many people would be smokers today if that knowledge had not become known?

If your teenage daughter announced her intentions to start smoking cigarettes, would you not warn her of the dangers of smoking? Wouldn't it be irresponsible to not tell her, to not share the info you have?

It is the same with vaccines! Just as the dangers of smoking were once disputed and controversial, so too are the dangers of vaccines now being disputed. It remains to be seen whether vaccines will one day be viewed as conclusively harmful like cigarettes, or maybe just a mixed bag of both positive and negative effects. But their time of being unquestioningly safe is over.

Perhaps eating meat would be a better analogy than smoking, since smoking has virtually no redeeming value, and eating meat is believed by many to have redeeming value. There is an overwhelmingly large body of evidence indicating that many of the most common and lethal diseases are affected by food components found in animal foods. Vegetarians have been shown to have a much lower risk for all the biggies: heart disease, cancer, stroke, diabetes, obesity, etc.

And yet, many argue that meat is an important food, offering nutrients that are useful to the human body. Still others argue that some animal foods in the diet is even necessary. It is a controversy, with good points on both sides of the argument.

When I look at the meat debate, it seems obvious to me that one side of the debate weighs considerably more than the other. And yet, I am in the minority. Perhaps one day eating meat will be viewed the way cigarette smoking is viewed now: People are allowed to do it, but there is a consensus that it's harmful to most who partake of it.

IF, and please note the word IF, it turns out that meat is one day viewed the same way cigarettes are viewed, then won't we be thanking those who were courageous enough to speak up when their views weren't popular? Those who had the forsight and tenacity to conduct the studies that produced the results?

How is this any different from the vaccine debate?

The only difference I see is that some of those who recognize that there might be harmful effects of vaccines have also attached a conspiracy theory to the equation. It's not necessary to do that, to make their point. Were the tobacco companies a conspiracy? Not necessarily! Did they have a vested interest in keeping the cigarette industry strong? Yes indeed! Did they not fight regulation? Did they not fight having to put warnings on their packages? Same with the meat and dairy industry! There is plenty of evidence for corruption in that industry as well! Greed tends to do that!

Just as the medical industry is fighting any opposing povs now! That the medical industry is hostile to alternative therapies and philosophies is indisputable! Just look at quackwatch.com...ridiculing anything that isn't drugs-and-surgery related...Just look at all the raids on health food stores...taking harmless herbs off the market, while they continue to market their drugs which kill 200,000 people every year.

I don't think it's necessary to believe in plots ot kill off the population, in order to recognize that the safety and efficacy of vaccines is questionable. Simple greed is sufficient to explain it.

I agree that, once any sort of misfortune strikes, taking responsibility is preferable to blaming others. I also agree that a lot of the focus among conspiracy theorists is on the blame and the fear. But, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water! Many, if not most, of these activists also care a great deal about helping others! They are doing what they believe is right, not just to blame someone after damage has occurred, but to help others prevent getting harmed. It is this prevention element that I think is lacking in your assessment. Is it not STO to offer info to others that might help them avoid harm? (As long as we just offer it and leave the final decision up to them.)

I completely agree with the gist of what you're saying...that we do need to take responsibility for whatever befalls us. At the same time, are we not here to serve others? How can we knowingly withhold info about something we know or suspect to be harmful? Provided the person has indicated they are interested in that info, of course. I don't walk up to people in the grocery store and tell them to quit smoking or not get vaccinated! But, if asked, I will share what I know...and leave the decision up to them.

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3Dsunset

Do you think that perspective is appplicable to those getting cancer from nuclear powerplants like Czernobyl also?

Most assuredly. I firmly believe that everything that happens, happens for a reason. Our task is to find the reason and learn the lesson. Blame is simply an excuse for not owning up to our responsibility to learn our lessons. If you think about it, this is also the most empowering perspective one can take in any given situation.

But wouldn't you also work to prevent future nuclear accidents, if it was within your power to do so?

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I was vaccinated for H1N1 yesterday.

Thank you for sharing your experience and your line of reasoning, Aaron!