2007.03.25 The Female Orgasm

[Monica]

To say it lightly: I'm allergic to everything that suggests that either is the superior sex. It's rubbish... We're equals.

So am I. So please let go of any idea that I somehow was implying that one gender was superior to the other or that one should be subservient to the other. That is a gross misunderstanding and not what I was saying at all.

Sorry for any confusion! To be clear: I think both men and women have 'sacred responsibilities' so there is no double standard. But we were specifically talking about the female, so I mentioned that. It didn't enter my mind to reiterate that of course neither sex is superior to the other, because I assumed we were beyond such archaic notions.

And a lot of the "Men are this and women are that" arguments are the result of societal beliefs, not of fact.. Meaning that they keep us in the cycles of sexual inequality. Belief shapes behavior.

I'm curious, then, if you have disagreement with Ra and Q'uo on this topic? Because both do assign characteristics of the sexes.

In history at the time when male psychology was formed. There were not as many women available to procreate with as you might think. In fact the size of the nomadic tribes was small, large families not much more. And there was relative equality between men and women. Meaning that you can't force a woman to have sex with you, if you did you would be cast out of the tribe... Or worse... So the only way for a man to procreate would be to successfully seduce a woman and have her fall in love with you.. Ergo, the emotional bond is vitally important to a male's success to procreate... An additional issue is that if a man struck out with 1 woman. Then all other viable women would likely be her friends. So striking out with one means failing to reproduce, unless you can find another tribe to join with which is a dangerous move at best.

What you just described is a snapshot into time of some particular tribes/cultures but not necessarily representative of all tribes/cultures throughout history.

Asian cultures obviously valued females' sexuality. Taoist and Tantric texts explain in luscious detail the benefits to the man of worshiping at the altar of the Goddess. Women clearly were treated with respect, reverence even, and reveled in their sexuality.

The same is true of Pagan societies. Many were 'Goddess worshipers' and the female was the embodiment of the Goddess.

The deviation seems to be with the patriarchal, Judeo-Christian cultures. No surprise, given what we know about the STS influence of the Biblical texts. Sex became dirty, men became dominant over women, and women were taught that if they enjoyed sex, they were 'sinning.' The blame for all of humanity's travails was put on Eve, the mythical original female.

This is the heritage of American and European society and we are still reaping the consequences of this gross distortion.

Until the 60s hippie revolution, many women were sexually unsatisified. Even today, I personally know Christian women who tolerate abuse from their husbands because they've been taught to 'submit' to them. Not only are they being abused, but being pleasured just isn't even on the table.

Even in the Pagan communities, of course, 'barbarians' raped and pillaged. Women were viewed as the spoils of war. I'm not sure if any culture was totally free of the distortion of inequality of the sexes. But that just goes with the territory, being that this planet is essentially a school for juvenile delinquents.

I'm not a historian, but just those few examples would indicate that we really can't pick any one culture and say it's representative of all men and women throughout history.

In males today you see that most men would rather wait forever than approach the girl they're really head over heels in love with.. And that is the true psychology of the male.

Now who's generalizing?

What you describe is a valid aspect of the male. I wouldn't say it's the "true" psychology any more than any of the other traits I just described, that history shows were also quite real. There are many valid aspects.

Not the lust oriented animal that you like the rest of society depicts.

I would offer "in addition to the lust oriented animal" rather than "not the lust oriented animal" because both are true.

Yes those exist. But it would be the same as saying that women are subservient creatures who like, or need, a strong man to tell them what to do.

We seem to be going down a rabbit hole I didn't intend to go down.

You're saying the urge is still there, I am saying the urge is equal in men and women.

OK. We can agree to disagree on that point.

It is very likely that women in your numbers cheat less because they were more dependent on their husband. With full equality, women and men are likely to cheat on an equal basis. Check your sources they'll say the same thing.

In modern society, that may be true. Historically, however, in many patriarchal cultures it was acceptable for men to have mistresses, but if any woman dared to do such a thing, she was branded a 'harlot' and maybe even stoned to death. The double standard abounded, and has been passed on in the Judeo-Christian cultures.

You're arguing that men on the whole are only after sex. That they don't care about the women they're having sex with. And that sex is less of an emotional experience for men... This is insulting and sexist.

If that's what you think I'm arguing, Ali, then you have grossly misunderstood me.

It is understandable because of societies apparent belief in these myths... But never the less sexist in the same way that women can't think properly and should be subservient to their men.

Ali, if you would like to continue on this path, that's fine. But I won't be participating because the entire 'argument' is based on a complete misunderstanding of my points.

What you're doing is

No, Ali, please calm down. That's not what I'm doing at all. This has obviously pushed a button for you, but I didn't push that button.

Again I totally get where you're coming from. I believed this crap myself up to little over a year ago... I believed women were good and men were bad. I believed that there was something inherently wrong with masculinity.

No, Ali, you don't get where I'm coming from at all if you think I think that.

I get where you're coming from Monica,

No, you have misinterpreted my words and tried to make them fit into the stereotype of what bothers you. Please release me from this, Ali. This isn't my battle. You're simply wrong in your interpretation of my words.

Peace