the amish dont get autism: VACCINES

[Ali Quadir]

"The price we have to pay for living longer due to control of these maladies is an increase in allergies and autoimmune disorders"
from Inverse relationship between decreased infectious diseases and increased inflammatory disorder occurrence: the price to pay (2003)

Like I said, I didn't claim it to be fully safe. It's a transaction, you take a risk on one end to improve the chances on another end.

Most of the ingredients that cause problems in a vaccine are present in our food. I've shown this when I went through the list. For consistency I want to hear people complain about the presence of the ingredients in our environment. Not just about the minimal amount in the vaccine.

and there are many many more medical research papers that link vaccinations with autoimmune disorders - so who is paying the price really and what is the price?

Can you show me these papers? I looked for evidence about this, but could not find it quickly.

are rising levels of chronic, and lethal, diseases like ms and lupus, decades of pain from rheumatoid arthritis, children with multiple sensitivies and anaphylactic shock reactions worth the benefits of vaccination? because after seeing people suffering and dying from these illnesses i very much question that vaccination is a risk worth taking now.

You're assuming the two are linked up, there is no evidence to support that at this time.. There is however very clear evidence that if we stop vaccinations on a massive scale right now we're going to lose a lot of kids due to polio small pox, measles and other diseases that have essentially been eradicated.

So which do you prefer? An astmatic kid or a dead one? And that's assuming that there is a causal connection. When I was a kid I played in hay stacks and fields we swam in natural water that was known to be infected with germs (our solution: don't swallow or drink it) and we even regularly explored the sewers. Kids these days, get to play video games. The sterile environments of today have also been linked to autoimmune disorders.

but if it is a price worth paying then why isn't the medical profession honest about the real long term risks? because the risks are recognised, they are just not admitted to and there really hasn't been much research done into it.

Show me please where they recognized it without researching it, that seems very unlikely to me.

anyway... sorry to rant - just to my mind it really isn't a black and white issue

I fully agree... I don't claim it's good stuff. I think we're overdosing on the vaccines. I think there are negative side effects. I just don't think it's as simple as stopping to do it then... If we stopped vaccinating our kids, it'd be like inviting the horseman named pestilence over for tea.

Before anything else, let me assure you that I do not believe vaccinations to be a panacea, I just believe them to be potentially better than the diseases they protect us against.

That's what I thought too at one time. But that presupposes that:

a.) vaccines work

Which is evident.

b.) there aren't alternative methods for treating the diseases

An alternative method to treat the disease also has side effects may not work and usually is much less preferable to just not getting the disease.

Upon researching the issue, I found a.) to be quite questionable, even indisputably false in many cases. (Case in point: Ever wonder why pro-vaccination people make such a big deal about those who choose to not vaccinate? If their vaccines worked reliably, then why should they care if some people choose to not vaccinate? I've seen parents really freak out when they find out a child in their midst isn't vaccinated. Say, what?? What's the big deal if their own children are 'immune?' The truth is that they're not immune! And the medical industry knows it!)

Everyone should know this! It's obvious. Vaccination does not guarantee immunity, it creates a much stronger immunity response. Which is the point, and which is also the claim. Your suggestion that they claim immunity isn't true. Either you misunderstood their claims or heard it from someone who doesn't understand how it works himself.

And b.) is quite true, but unbeknownst to most people. Did you know that there is clinical evidence showing that homeopathic treatments got better results than conventional treatments during the polio epidemic and other epidemics? See the works of Dr. Dorothy Shepherd, a British MD/homeopath.

This isn't a relevant side track.. I believe in homeopathy. I know there is much evidence for it. I don't know about this particular case but I'll take it as read.

So, I agree with Lorna, that it's not a black-and-white issue. It's not nearly as simplistic as the medical industry would like us to believe.

You have to understand that you're listening to the channels of the sellers to the average and usually pretty uninformed and uninterested population. If you look at the science then no one is painting a black and white picture at all.

Lets be clear, it is poisonous chemicals that we're talking about here. However, the dosage is low.

What is 'low?' The drug companies have not shown any studies proving that the 'low' dosages aren't harmful. Also, take into consideration that the toxins are compounded. For example, I once read an article in a mainstream magazine that toddlers by age 2 had already received their lifetime's allotment of individual pesticides! But that wasn't even taking into consideration the potential effects of multiple pesticides interacting with one another!

Low is when you're getting more than the dose you're complaining about from your environment. So basically, if you complain about mercury in vaccines, which is the most valid of the complaints. Then you must also complain about the mercury in your food. Fish and seafood have a high dose of mercury. It's silly to ban vaccines because of mercury and then happily going off to eat a fish somewhere to celebrate. Not to mention the amount that's put in the air and the water through industrial pollution.

Likewise, a newborn baby is given a cocktail of toxic ingredients, at a time when his/her immune system is immature. Add to that the fact that this cocktail is injected directly into the bloodstream, with preservatives such as formaldehyde which keep the body from breaking it down and eliminating it. I find the very idea very creepy!

I find a lot of things creepy Monica... Do you use make up? Do you smoke? You're likely adding formaldehyde to your system.

Meanwhile, the medical industry keeps people in the dark about the myriad things they can do to naturally strengthen their immune systems as well as treat illnesses using alternative healing modalities.

This is a different topic, and I agree with you on that.

Case in point: Right now, how often do you hear mention of the importance of vitamin D in combating the flu? This is well documented, but is the media talking about it? No! They're pushing their vaccines, but ignoring such an important, simple, and inexpensive safeguard against the flu. It's criminal!

I called it that before.

The whole autism situation is a horrible mess, with those children and parents having to pay a heavy price...there's too much politics involved for honesty in this case. Drug companies don't want to be found liable...if they proved it with one vaccine, it would establish a precedent and open the floodgates for other side effects, of other vaccines. They won't let that happen!

No? There were actual experiments where they removed the mercury from the vaccines to test if there was a difference in people developing autism... There was no difference. It's a game of odds. If you put your money in the bank you're also taking a risk. If you're keeping it at home you're taking a risk.

I know 2 women who are military nurses. Both of them told me that if anyone comes to the hospital with a sniffle, they have been instructed to record it as swine flu. ??? No verification. None. This is a clear example of inaccurate reporting.

This is also not relevant to the issue of whether vaccination works..

Like I said, my theory is that the companies involved are robbing us.. So this misrepresenting of the facts is an expected part of that. I'm not calling them angels. Let that be clear.

The question isn't so much are they safe.... The question is if we inject a million kids, how many are going to die compared to if we don't...

Lorna has already responded to this and I agree with her! It's not a simple equation of die/not die. It's far, far more complex than that!

I appreciate your willingness to investigate the other side of the issue, Ali!

I'm sorry that I have not reached different conclusions....

I understand your concerns regarding the potential negative effects vaccination can have... These are known and not hidden even though you won't find them in the popular press. There have been reported cases of people dying or growing ill after receiving their vaccination possibly even because of it. And even when you had the shot you can still grow ill... Yes, this state of affair sucks.

But on the other hand...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_hepatitis

If you ban vaccination or undermine it's effect... Expect the above diseases to make a come back. Expect children to die and become deformed, and not just occasionally, expect to see them around regularly, expect to see what you can already see in the third world!

The draw back of anti vaccination is very clear. We've already seen in australia where the anti vaccination movement has been active for over a year or so now that these diseases are actually coming back. It's very very irresponsible to ban vaccinations...

We were not healthier 200 years ago. Life expectancy of the countries where people are vaccinated is drastically higher than countries where this does not happen. And so is quality of life.