Q'uo: The harvest began in 1987

[Tyler Durden Maybe]

zenmaster,

Zen, don't you ever get tired of being Right? Haha! (get the joke? it's layered) I appreciate your responses and they have provided insight on your thoughts and your interpretation of what my question was. To me, you are THE online alter-ego of Alan Watts, that is very enjoyable. Is that you Alan? I sure can't tell the difference.

Q. "Do you somehow find a need for what I say to be either right or wrong" & @ "Ultimate Reality" - zen

A. No, In fact, regarding my initial question of "Q. Have you ever been wrong and if so whats an example?" I never expected a straight forward or direct answer, such as Yes/No, "Yes + Example" or "No" answer, and that's what I got. The only instance of "Yes" or "No" in your entire text reply was was a "Conditional" "Yes" but only as it applies to me, or as you said "if you need it to be", and did not answer my question in any direct way, Q. have you ever been wrong and if so whats an example, it was a nice dodge, eloquently tangential. Or am I reading that wrong? I honestly cannot determine from the text you provided if you have ever been wrong as you do not provide a yes or no answer, I guess you're answer is there is no such thing as wrong so then you have never been wrong? I am reading your text correctly?

I would love, LOVE, to actually get to the point where you say you are, where to you there is absolutely no right or wrong about anything, then I would steal so many candy bars from the 7/11. But I'm not there yet, I still think that is wrong. (I can't imagine being able to do certain things like Stealing or Killing WithOut thinking they are Wrong, what is it actually like to be at a place like that? What's it like to know, for a fact, you could actually kill someone and not think it was wrong? That seems so far beyond what I could attain, in this life anyway. And I find that fascinating about you, how you are able to get to a place like that and actually feel that way.)

I just wanted to hear your answer as it may be, as hopefully will be explained below and why my "suspicion" on opinions/views/beliefs is not referring to what I think you think it is referring to regarding context and intent. All I NEED is food/water/shelter/air, everything else is a WANT, haha! (every time some one says "Need" I can't help but say that)

Of course we know Ra states there is no right or wrong, and especially there is no right or wrong in terms of opinions/beliefs/views on Philosophy/Meta-Physics, as I think everyone is right because it is Subjective, but I do think there are Objective opinions/beliefs/views which can be very much wrong, as it applies in a certain context.

Did you assume I meant ONLY Non-3D opinions/views/beliefs? I'm sorry if it came across that way, I was being all inclusive, 3D and non-3D, I apologize for not making that context more clear. I really only expected 3D related answers, but it was wide open.

So, that is what I am asking, have you ever been wrong in your opinions/views/beliefs relating 3D Physical events? Boy, we could NEVER prove one way or the other about being right or wrong on opinions/views/beliefs when asking about the Non-3D World, that would be impossible, and in that case I would completely agree with everything you said, as it relates to your answer.

Example: So I'm not saying that killing someone by shooting them with a bullet is Right or Wrong, that is not the context, the Question relates to this: Did I shoot someone with a bullet and did that bullet hit a person in the 3D physical world. There is a Correct/Right answer, which is YES, and there is a Incorrect/Wrong answer which is NO. Does this illuminate my intent of the question, in context?

So, you have no examples of say, where you thought Electrons didn't pop in and out of space/time but remained "Constantly Existent" as a kid as you were taught in school, but then you learned later in life they did actually pop in and out, thus you were once wrong? This would be an example that fits my question. Or you believed in Santa Clause and then he turned out to be your Parents?

And if the truth in your case was, Yes I was wrong about Santa Clause, why not say "Yes, and the example is Santa Clause" So maybe now you'll see why I get more information by HOW you give your answer, instead of an obvious answer, like "Yes, I was wrong about Santa"

So of all the numerous examples we all have where we learned one thing, and it turned out to be wrong or incorrect, most people will never say "Yes, and here's this obvious and common example, like Santa" instead they will go on tangentially like "it does seem that you still subscribe to (and are quite bound to) the 'right' vs 'wrong' dichotomy" and "Do you somehow find a need for what I say to be either right or wrong"

To me, Those are the answers that speak volumes (and that is the REAL Answer I was looking for, not some boring yes/no with some boring example)

I would have been so so let down if you just had said, "Yes, I was wrong about Electrons and Santa" Haha! Thank you for going along with my little game, all be it unbenounced as it may have been. It was slightly different than my guess, my guess was to think "What would Alan Watts say and that is what zen will say", but maybe other than the personality type which I'm not sure he would mention, it was bang on.

A #2. Let me further clarify or provide an updated angle, so that a possibility of an Answer, in the form I was asking may be presented by you, if you wish. I am speaking in 3D Terms, what are your opinions/views/beliefs on actual physical events as they exist in 3D as represented by Material / Matter interacting, not related anything Meta-Physical or Non-3D. So I am not talking about what you call Ultimate Reality, just our 3D reality we call the Universe, Earth & how Atoms & Energy Interact. Of course Ra states there is no right and wrong, and I see that is what you are basing your answers upon. Although this may seem odd, I specifically asked that question only because of what I have read before on your opinions/views/beliefs of the events of 9/11/2001, (that you believe the official government story/explanation and Not the Inside Job explanation) and was interested in what the answer to that question would be for someone with those opinions/views/beliefs as to whether they have an example of being wrong ever, if the answer is NO not ever, then to me, that would shine some light on why you have those views, contrary to so many. That is also why I used 9/11 as my example in the previous posting. I want to understand the thinking of people like that.

Going back to the reason for the question, this specific example: The events of 9/11/2001. For example, (i.e.) You believe the official government story and I don't believe the official government story but the Inside Job explanation. One of us is right, objectively and one is wrong, it can't be both. Or do you think it can be both because there is absolutely never a right and wrong detail of events, even as it applies to two separate and unique explanations describing one instance of interaction(s) between matter, such as the physical events of 9/11?

Or does Right and Wrong not apply to physical events in 3D to such a degree that even though I know and Believe the sky is blue if I said the Sky is Orange & Black Polka Dot, is that not Wrong? To me saying the Sky is Orange & Black Polka Dot IS Actually Wrong/Incorrect, in 3D terms. And that is my point I'm trying to make.

I hope this clarifies my position and initial question. You don't have to reply if doing so wouldn't be fun for you, I just wanted you to understand where I was coming from. Thanks.

Zen - I never took a personality test to see if i am "INTJ ", how do you find that out? Wikipedia says "INTJs are one of the rarest of the sixteen personality types, and account for about 1–4% of the population" I could see myself being that just on that fact alone! I am a rare one, and definitely not in the main. Can you send me a link you think is valid & a good source to take that test? Thanks. (I'll try to find one, this seems interesting now, I'll let you know what the results are)

UPDATE @ 8pm: Darn, I got INTP in the four online tests I took, so close! (I'm still in the 1-3% of the population though, Sweet! I knew I was not mainstream) (The Wikipedia description does fit me like a glove, man I'm impressed, way more accurate than I would have guessed. Right up there with Einstein and Jefferson!)

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Zenmaster, if you were asking me questions in your text, as the question marks would indicate I'd be happy to oblige in direct Yes or No answers:

Q. Do you somehow find a need for what I say to be either right or wrong, as if what has been subject to your discernment somehow forms the basis for ultimate reality?

A. NO. No Need, only Want (as in not needed but more fun, therefore: I Want to view you as wrong and right because that's more fun to me) and YES, all input using my discernment (perception) does in fact constitute MY Ultimate Reality Yes, what else would be in it or make it up? Is MY Ultimate Reality = All of Creation, NO. As I assume you mean All of Creation when you use the term "ultimate reality" (ex. what I don't know about is not part of my ultimate reality, but is part of All of Creation. Does that help you?)

Q. Does that satisfy your suspicion?
A. YES, you never gave a Yes or No answer. Therefore the Negative was Implicitly Inferred, or NO was your answer. My suspicion was Confirmed, YES.
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Zen, You seem so bent out of shape by my question(s) buddy, No Worries! It did not seem like you were having fun when you were typing your answers, have fun buddy!
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I'll stop hijacking the topic of this thread and return it to it's regularly scheduled program.