In regards to eating meat

[Tenet Nosce]

The misunderstanding may be in the difference between 3D vs 4D Earth (consensual reality) as opposed to us being 3D vs 4D entities.

So are you saying that one must stop eating meat in order to become a 4D entity? I don't think you are, but just asking for the sake of clarity.

When I speak of making the 'quantum jump' from 3D to 4D, I am speaking of our bodies, not the reality we live in.

Then I would tend to agree... yes probably meat-eating creates a dampening effect on this process. But it is one of many factors. I think what you are getting at here is actually the inner process of alchemy. But if so, recall that it involves an alternation of distillation (raising vibration) and condensation (lowering vibration) to create the desired outcome. Not saying meat-eating is necessary for this, but just relative to the overall concept of consuming things which "lower our vibration". They have a purpose, too.

I don't agree with the mindset which says we "should never" put anything unhealthy in our bodies. There is actually a very interesting concept called hormesis which postulates that small, regular doses of toxic substances actually benefits health. Again, not saying this justifies gorging ourselves on McDonald's hamburgers, but you are getting at some more subtle points here.

I am of the opinion that, as Nassim posits, we are the 'event horizon' meaning that each of us has the power to create our own reality (to the extent it is affected by others...ie. consensual reality).

Do you happen to know if Nassim is a vegetarian?

But more to the point... on the other side of the "event horizon" is a consensus reality already in progress. It is already populated by countless beings from the far reaches of the galaxy and beyond. We are not "creating" it from a tabula rasa.

The nested Earths will still exist. 3D will still exist, for however long it's designed to exist. But we might not be there.

My understanding is that 3D earth will not be inhabitable by any form which we are currently accustomed to.

Well maybe you're right about that. But, I still contend that whether we knowingly contribute to the suffering of beings who can feel pain, is a reflection on the amount of compassion we have. And that does affect our polarity.

Yes, this was part of my lost reply so I am glad you brought it up. I think the ability to feel pain and suffering bears some weight here. I just don't think all animals have this capacity.

Regardless of what happens in 4D, in the here and now, animals are being tortured by the millions each and every day. We all share in the responsibility of that.

Well, sure. Along with a whole host of other heinous atrocities. But none of this is enough to keep us from choosing our way out of here.

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Compassion for higher 2D other-selves

I am totally interested in discussing what constitutes "higher" and I know it has been discussed at various points along this thread. This is what I am talking about with discerning a principle by which to make these sort of choices which don't rely upon ethics. Ethics is too messy and ultimately divisive.

With the part that will remain in this thread, I would be interested to see what happens if we all start with what we can agree upon, and then attempt to build a mental framework upon this. I wonder what might turn up?

... the physical body, whether the entity can still be harvestable etc.

Whereas, my focus on the meat issue has to do not with humans, but with animals.

Both perspectives are valid. But they are 2 entirely different perspectives.

Yes, they are two different angles. Yet connected. For example, if "harvestability" depends on "polarity" which depends upon our attitude toward other-animal-selves... to what degree does a vegetarian lifestyle support harvestability? I am not really sure but it certainly seems that a meat-eater can be harvestable.

So now if I back up and look the the broader context of 3D earth post-2012 I believe that all entities incarnated after this time have already qualified themselves as "harvestable". Certainly, we are not going to become a global meatless society before then.

So in the meantime, if the primary mission of Wanderers is to increase the harvest, then what relative weight should we, as a group, be giving to various causes as we move into 2012? Of course, everybody has their own little niche. But is there maybe an overarching message we can deliver that might indeed have the effect of drastically reducing meat consumption, while not being dependent upon convincing others of the "wrongness" of it?

As for the plight of the animals... are you concerned for their own harvestability into 3D? I guess I just assume there are others out there whose cosmic role it is to oversee that part of the process. Maybe you are one of them! I guess I just don't see the inherent harm in killing an animal. Raising it in abominable conditions, yes. Treating it poorly and abusing it, yes. But killing it "before its time"... I dunno really how does one judge that sort of thing? What sort of expectations does a chicken have for its life, anyway?

I think that's why it might seem that we disagree. I don't necessarily disagree with your perspective, and I certainly don't think I am in disagreement at all with my understanding of what Ra has said on the subject. I just am focused on a different aspect of the subject: the animals and our response to their plight. I see it as a compassion issue, not a 'criteria for harvest' issue.

Isn't compassion a criteria for harvest?

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In other news... we are currently trying our hand at making cat food! Picked up a whole chicken to grind up for them with some grass and other yummies.

I just came across this:

Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basics of Feline Nutrition

Cats Need Animal-Based Protein

Cats are obligate (strict) carnivores and are very different from dogs in their nutritional needs. What does it mean to be an ‘obligate carnivore’? It means that your cat was built by Mother Nature to get her nutritional needs met by the consumption of a large amount of animal-based proteins (meat/organs) and derives much less nutritional support from plant-based proteins (grains/vegetables). It means that cats lack specific metabolic (enzymatic) pathways and cannot utilize plant proteins as efficiently as animal proteins.

What if some humans contained variants in their genes that made their digestive enzyme profile more similar to a cat's? What might suddenly adopting a vegan diet do to their health?

What if humanity's genes were manipulated so as to make a certain portion of us carnivorous??! What then? It is not so simple as everybody just deciding en masse to stop eating meat. There could be negative health consequences... as well as ways to offset those consequences which have also been discussed. But should we make vegetarianism part of "policy" or the "4D curriculum"? I don't know about that.

Also, am I incurring negative karma by feeding this dead bird to my cats? Am I causing harm to the animal kingdom? I am not sure... but it certainly isn't going to keep me up at night. I am comfortable with this being a sufficiently "compassionate" view for the purposes of my existence here. I really don't think it will be "frowned upon" on the other side that I didn't convert my cats to vegetarianism, much less myself, when all is said and done. I don't think sardine sandwiches are what is holding me back from evolving.

When I get my life review, I am sure that I will get to see some of the more uncomfortable ways my actions have impacted others, including animals. But that is all part and parcel of the situation to which we have consigned ourselves. It is up to each of us individually to decide where we stand on these issues. I don't acknowledge a moral imperative coming from higher densities. I see moral imperative as a third density concept. But again, for all I know, maybe it is a 4D concept and I am confusing my perspectives again by applying a 5D or 6D viewpoint to the situation.