In regards to eating meat

[Monica]

Perpetuation of the species is important from a species perspective! We know from Ra that species have their own consciousnesses. For the species, the health of the species is more important than the health of any individual member.

This doesn't fit into my understanding of the Law of One. It sounds more like a Darwinian perspective. Yes there is group consciousness, but consciousness resides in everything. Physical species are for the purpose of spiritual evolution and not an end in itself.

Survival of species takes on a different meaning when one realizes that an entity might be a bug in 1 life, a cow in the next, and a cat in the next.

Physical vehicles are built to accommodate the needs of the soul, not the other way around. The 3D vehicles on this planet were developed because there were entities who needed to incarnate here, to continue their 3D development.

Preservation of a species isn't an end in itself. Yes, we should be careful to not allow species to go extinct. But they are indeed going extinct, at the rate of 1 species every 20 minutes! That's 200 species per day going extinct, largely because of the meat industry!

So I'm not too concerned about the cow species being preserved. I'm much more concerned about the many millions of species going extinct because the lust for meat requires huge rainforests to be cut down, to make room for more cattle.

That's just obscene.

At any rate, surely you aren't suggesting that the cows on factory farms are healthy, or that living in slavery while being tortured on a daily basis, then brutally slaughtered in a state of pain and terror, is some sort of optimal goal for a species?

If so, I want no part of that.

Thank you for pointing out that what is obvious to someone who has been researching diet/nutrition for 30 years, isn't obvious to someone who hasn't done that.

You're making an inaccurate and (hopefully unintentionally) condescending assumption, one that indicates a "feeling of being correct personally."

Ouch again. Is this getting personal? You have misunderstood me. I honestly and sincerely was explaining why I had been insensitive by not realizing that you might not have the same background as I do, when you said the research on plant-based diets wasn't obvious to you.

It's a fact that those who have been studying this subject for many years are more likely to be more aware of the research. There's nothing condescending about that simple fact and I apologize if I sounded condescending. That wasn't my intention.

I was referring to the arguments that plants aren't individuated and that 4D diet will be plant-based.

Your words seemed to be referring to what Ra said about meat.

Ra said nothing about meat, except in a statement about an individual: Carla. It would be a stretch to assume that statement applied to all humans.

When asked about diet for humans in general, Ra never mentioned meat. Ra did mention animal products, which could mean eggs and dairy, which can be consumed cruelty-free. Even then, Ra made it very clear: to the extent necessary.

This, in my view, totally eradicates this entire debate. Can everyone here honestly say they consume only the animal products that are absolutely necessary?

Regarding what Ra said about 2D life being individuated or not individuated, that is information we can use to form our own understanding. My understanding is that this supports what Ra said about using animal products only to the extent necessary. If plants were just as individuated as animals, then why didn't Ra put any restrictions on our consumption of plants?

But no, Ra stated that plants were to be eaten. There's no getting around that. If we are to base our dietary decisions on what Ra said, then it's clear that Ra gave us express permission to eat plants!

Not so with animal carcasses. That is what meat is: the carcass of an entity that is quite likely individuated to some degree. By eating that body, we are responsible for its death. Did Ra condone this? No. Ra stated very clearly and unambiguously that animal products may be eaten to the extent necessary.

Why did Ra say animal products and not meat? Probably so we could figure it out for ourselves, as per their style of respecting free will.

But there's no figuring out Ra's words about plants.

Are you disputing that plants aren't individuated? If so, by what mechanism did they become individuated? By what logic do they incarnate into bodies that have no pain receptors, no mobility, and very very little interaction with higher entities on an individual basis? (referring to developing relationships with individual carrots, not general love for an entire garden.)

I've asked this question several times, and I'd be interested in your answer:

If grass is individuated, then how many entities are in a lawn? Does it writhe in pain when you mow your lawn? If so, isn't that a very cruel design? A wild deer has a good life until the wolf kills it. But what sort of Creator would design a planet in which the entire plant kingdom, which is being torn apart by higher beings on a daily basis, lives in constant pain?

Think about it. Is this even remotely reasonable? Every time we walk outside, we are crushing blades of grass. Every time an elephant walks on an African prairie, it is inflicting severe torment on the grass beneath its feet? Every time a chimp climbs a tree and accidentally breaks a limb, the tree is experiencing severe pain with no relief? Every time any animal, anywhere on the planet, eats a plant, the plant is experiencing terror and pain? Every time a chimp tears off a lettuce leaf, it is torturous as when a dear is mauled by a lion?

What kind of hell is that?

Further: Can anyone explain to me how many entities are in a strawberry plant? If I tear off a cutting and plant it, that 'entity' has just been torn in 2. Is it now 2 entities? What if I tear that single plant into 5 separate cuttings, to help it spread in my garden? Did I just torture it? How many entities are there now? It was a strawberry plant. I separated it into 5 cuttings which can each now turn into a separate plant. By what mechanism is what used to be just a body part of Entity A (the original plant) now a new, individuated entity (the cutting)? That would be like saying that when a human loses a leg, the leg is now a new human!

If this is how strawberry plants reproduce, then at what point does each little cutting become a self-aware entity? And, what kind of cruel design is that, in which normal reproduction inflicts extreme pain?

This doesn't fit the pattern of other lifeforms. Other entities (animals and humans) generally enjoy the mating process. Why is reproduction so painful for plants?

I don't think it's painful. Why? Because they have no pain receptors.

Why is it experiencing pain when I am obviously trying to help it spread? Why is spreading and growing, which are normal activities for a plant, subjecting the plant to extreme pain? is it reasonable or logical to assume that such a normal activity is subjecting extreme pain?

Are you suggesting that the normal, everyday events in a plant's life are akin to the torture endured by a cow on a factory farm?

I think Ra was referring to those who try to change society to fit their preferences.

That's not what vegetarians are trying to do.

We're trying to end cruelty and champion the oppressed.

Very distinct difference.

Are you sure? You seem to have "feelings of being correct personally or of having answers which will put power in a more correct configuration." I certainly get the impression that it would be your preference that people not eat meat and that you're trying to change society to fit that preference.

That's not to say that it's a bad thing to try to change society. Ra said that people that do so can act out of the full range of polarizations, from negative to positive. It's just that it's orange- and yellow-ray work, not green ray or higher.

No, you have misunderstood. The end result might be the same, but the motivation is what makes it different.

To try to change society to fit my own ideals, would be orange and yellow-ray work.

To try to awaken other-selves to the cruelty they are imposing on our younger brethren when they eat animals, for the purpose of eliminating torture and oppression, is motivated by compassion for the animals, as well as compassion for the planet that's being raped, as well as compassion for humans who are diseased largely due to their heavy meat-based diet...the motivation is compassion...thus is green ray work.