In regards to eating meat

[Monica]

yes but it allows you to escape the inconvenient conclusion :

No, not at all. You speak as though your interpretation of that quote is the only one. It isn't.

if by expression you mean that actual communication of that emotion to the outside sources, and you find solace in that, thats your choice.

No, that's not what I mean. Not just expression, but ability to feel emotion at all. Many humans aren't even in touch with their own emotions, to the point that they aren't even aware of suppressed anger, fear, etc. This is indisputable. If even humans have varying abilities to feel emotions, then that proves there is much variation. This is what I believe Ra meant by 'in potentiation.' As the entity learns to first feel, and then, later, express, those emotions, then the emotions are no longer in potentiation, but in full activation/expression.

if by expression you mean the actual manifestation of those emotions in the particular density they belong to, you are wrong.

nothing in a density is exempt from being able to manifest the density's properties and meanings. if there was any such exemption of body types in 2nd density, this would be mentioned and discussed. instead, we were told that blueprint for all life in the universe was same.

I don't think I'm wrong. I don't need Ra to tell me that many humans aren't aware of their own emotions. That is blatantly obvious.

you just disputed that above.

No I didn't. I didn't dispute that emotions come from mind/spirit. I disputed whether those emotions are manifest, or just in potentiation. If the latter, the entity isn't even consciously aware of them yet. This is common among humans; how much more so among 2D entities?

the aim of 2nd density is survival and progress. this was what was told to us in the material.

you are saying that some entities whose aim is to survive in their incarnation and progress, will, somehow, react to the destructive termination of their existence, with joy.

No, that's not what I said at all. I said a merging of consciousness isn't destructive termination.

I also said that we really don't know what plants feel, because the research isn't conclusive. I also said that plants may very well feel emotions. It just hasn't been proven that they do, and to assert that the current research proves such a thing, is erroneous.

if, you dont know that whether an entity may take joy in its incarnated presence getting destroyed, then to be on the safe side, you do NOT do it.

you dont go justifying doing it by saying 'maybe'.

I have used that very same argument, to point out that, since we KNOW animals DO feel pain and DO fight being killed, we should not kill them.

I also said that if you feel you should take that even further to include plants, since they MIGHT also feel pain and wish to not be harvested, then that's great - go for it!

My only argument here is that, while the former is based on rock-solid facts, the latter is based on speculation. It's simply erroneous to say that it's been 'proven' that plants feel emotions, because it hasn't.

That's not even getting into the inconvenient little detail that, unless one lives on fruits and nuts only, it's impossible to avoid killing plants. Eating dairy doesn't cut it because the cows ate plants. There's simply no way to be 100% pure in this, as long as we are in physical bodies on this planet.

Avoiding the eating of animals is the obvious first step. After that, it becomes a game of "who's the purest of us all" which I think is pointless, given that it's impossible to avoid plants entirely, unless one lives in a bubble. That's not even getting into bugs that splat on our windshields, or microbes we inhale.

All of that has already been discussed in this thread. My only point in resurrecting this thread was to point out the fallacy of basing one's decision about plants on that particular research. Maybe there is better research out there. But what was described in DW's book didn't prove anything. Rather, it actually seemed to disprove it, since the plants seemed to react equally to both positive and negative stimuli.

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What is it the two of you are arguing about? I haven't read this thread for a while and have forgotten what it is that you are arguing on either side here.

We're actually both vegetarians, and the current 'argument' is about plant research. This thread had lain dormant for some months, until I resurrected it today with post # 825.