More Positive but Less Harvestable

[Tenet Nosce]

Firstly:

I don't believe there is a place in 4D/positive for those who believe that killing and war-making is the best course of action in any situation, despite how "noble" the cause may be.

If it was my quote that set seejay21 off then it would have been preferable to address a response directly to me, so that everybody else doesn't have to go off on tangents.

Secondly:

"The fourth density is the only density besides your own which, lacking the wisdom to refrain from battle, sees the necessity of the battle."

"The impulse to protect the loved other-self is one which persists through the fourth-density, a density abounding in compassion."

These are good quotes which bear relevance to the discussion. Though I wonder what Ra means here by the "battle". Does this mean that physical wars consisting of people slaughtering each other on the battlefield persists through 4D? Or does the battle take a different form in 4D?

Thirdly:

If Hitler, by some miracle, is able to forgive his father, and himself, to know, to accept, to forgive, to balance, and to open the self in love, EVEN IN THE LAST SECOND OF THE LAST HOUR, he'd be free to move onto 4d postive harvest, NO PROBLEM.

Yes, according to my understanding, this statement is correct. I just don't see how it is incongruent with my post. If even in the last second of the last hour, Patton "saw the light" then he can graduate along with everybody else.

Still: I don't believe there is a place in 4D/positive for those who are proponents of killing and war-making as a solution to conflict.

Forget about Patton. Look all I know about the guy is what history has told me. I do know that he died suddenly in a car accident exactly six months after the famous Los Angeles parade. Did he come around by then? I don't know. Did he come around in the afterlife? I don't know.

Maybe the next incarnation of Patton is right here, right now, in this forum. Seeing as he was a General in the United States Army, I am sure he can take a little criticism, and doesn't require any defense.

I actually couldn't care less about labeling Patton STO or STS. Patton just happens to be referenced in the material, and so I continued to use the example that was given to discuss what the heck Ra meant.

So, with all due apologies and respect to seejay21, I do feel there is some shadow projection going on here.

What I absolutely DID NOT say or believe, is that anybody who ever participated in a war or killed another human being cannot be harvested. In that respect, I do apologize if my words were unclear.

What I DO believe is that when the cosmic clock strikes midnight, whomever STILL BELIEVES in their heart of hearts that war, killing, murder, torture, and all other forms of causing deliberate pain to another human being is an appropriate way to go about life will get another chance to use that catalyst again when they repeat 3D.

They are not going to 4D this time around. If somebody thinks that is judgmental, then they can take that up with the Creator. Making this statement does not mean that I think I am better than anybody else, or that 4D is better than 3D. I am just expressing my belief based upon my understanding of the material.

Now, anybody is more than welcome to offer their opinion on what I said. If somebody can make the case for why I am mistaken I am all ears. But please do not put words in my mouth or accuse me of being judgmental from up upon a high horse. I am just trying to contribute to a discussion here.

Since we are on the topic, let me take this opportunity to express how I really feel.

I admittedly don't have too much of a bleeding heart for people who participate in war. And I certainly don't buy into the idea that there is no other way to resolve our differences. When somebody goes to war, they know exactly what they are signing up for: War. War jacks people up, it jacks families up, and it jacks the world up. It has always been this way. So it's not like anybody is expecting a home-cooked meal and gets handed a raw fish. If somebody goes off to war thinking that it is going to be a glorious experience... well... all I can say is I'm sorry. And I, myself, do not feel that it is necessary for me to participate in war in order to reap the wisdom as there are many who have come before me that have already done that. I can learn just as well from their experiences.

Does war make for great catalyst? Absolutely. I can only hope something good comes out of 5000 years of near incessant killing of human beings by each other here on planet Earth. Because God knows, it has not once resulted in any sort of lasting peace.

This world has been held hostage by war mongers for far too long. Personally, I am sick and tired of the way that humanity has become conditioned to accept war as a normal part of every day reality.

We've got a War on Terror, a War on Drugs, a War on Cancer. Fight. Fight. Fight. Kill. Kill. Kill. OK now everybody wave a flag and cheer! And then even here in the "Land of the Free" people are made to feel guilty for speaking out against war because of all the people who died for our freedom. So does this mean we just keep warring with each other from now unto eternity? Shall we spread our warlike attitudes to the far reaches of the galaxy in pride and conquest because war is who we are? Since when did peace become unpatriotic?

I am 100% over it. Y'all can have your wars. I would prefer to continue my spiritual growth in an environment that is free of war. And I am pretty confident that the VAST MAJORITY of human beings agree. So if that pisses somebody off, well so be it. Please forgive my lack of compassion for the war-mongers of the world. I will be the first to admit that I have some learning yet to do on the compassion front.

Seejay21, I don't even know if you were referring to my post with your own. Either way, if you or somebody you love has found a way to use war as a catalyst for positive growth, then I honor and commend you for your commitment and bravery.

Actually, I think there is a very good Q'uo session that features just this kind of story. I will try to find it.

But for those who are still stuck in their warring ways, time is short and frankly I don't think I will miss them one bit. Luckily, in the end there is no judgment or condemnation. Only a very big missed opportunity.