07-14-2009, 07:19 AM
I'm sorry guys, you're mixing up quantum concepts. The observer isn't necisarily human. If a tree fell in a forest without anything with ears around. Then it would not produce a sound. Only waveform potentiality. The waveform concerning the sound would not collapse, sound would only potentially be there, but not actualized without the presence of someone to witness the sound. If there was a bunny there which has ears. Then to the bunny there would be sound. The wave form would collapse to it. And from all potential sounds only one is picked. The tree at that same time still experiences no sound. To the tree there would be no sound.. To an insect there would be an entirely different sound.
This isn't trivial matter. You cannot just start thinking on quantum physics, come to a point that you don't understand and then conclude the whole system must be bonkers. The assumption being that if you do not understand it it must be nonsensical. You literally compare it to medieval thinking Taha. How about a little bit of the benefit of the doubt for these poor eggheads? These guys aren't idiots and this is a difficult concept.
The step from a classical world view to a quantum mechanical universe is enormous. You won't be able to take this step simply by projecting quantum mechanical objects into a classical universe what happened when you did that is that you conclude they don't fit. This is correct. They don't fit in the way you tried to fit them into your world view.
If you claim that you navigate life without using your mind. What I hear you saying is similar to the claim that you see without using your eyes.
You are correct in stating that mind is not all there is. Falling for the trap of mind is an essential mistake many humans make. However, there is also the trap of disregarding aspects of ourselves as somehow less or inferior to other aspects of self. For example the belief you seem to follow that mind is inferior to some imagined or real higher function that would somehow kick in as soon as we've reached a certain stage of enlightenment overriding all previous functions. That will never happen. And if it seems to happen you're not fully integrated yet. There are "higher" functions to be found. But they will never exclude current functions unless you lobotomize yourself.
You also made the assumption earlier that it's everyone's goal to go beyond consensus reality. I personally didn't have a lot of problems to stand outside of reality. I've been speaking to aliens for as long as I can remember. I had big problems coming into consensus reality. I am an alien. I came to this planet to connect one place to the other. If I were to achieve enlightenment I would effectively connect my origin to my origin not achieving much. I came here to be human. I came here to be exactly what I am today. At first I was ascended above society. I was not from this place. Like the lotus flower I grew above the mud. The things in this world had little to do with me I just wanted to get out of there. It took me the longest time to not be an ascetic and instead be connected.
Today I'm a peanut. Up to my neck in the dirt and loving every second of it. If my goal was to become an enlightened master I'd have stayed at home. There's actually quite a bunch of them there. What I found however is that in spite of the dirt we remain free. We are not defined by the dirt. We are the principle that defines the dirt. The IAM that creates.
This isn't trivial matter. You cannot just start thinking on quantum physics, come to a point that you don't understand and then conclude the whole system must be bonkers. The assumption being that if you do not understand it it must be nonsensical. You literally compare it to medieval thinking Taha. How about a little bit of the benefit of the doubt for these poor eggheads? These guys aren't idiots and this is a difficult concept.
The step from a classical world view to a quantum mechanical universe is enormous. You won't be able to take this step simply by projecting quantum mechanical objects into a classical universe what happened when you did that is that you conclude they don't fit. This is correct. They don't fit in the way you tried to fit them into your world view.
(07-13-2009, 07:40 AM)Taha Wrote: Give up the theories and the models, and actually experience what the theories and models suggest. It's very simple; look at what you theorise and think about so deeply, and ask yourself how much of it do you actually experience?I'd hope my models are based on experience my friend not the other way around.
Quote:As you've learned to 'navigate the world' you can do so without needing to think about it much. Going beyond consensus reality cannot be done by thinking about it more, or by creating more theories and models. What that does is cause us to busy ourselves with constant theories and argument, all of which keeps us from realising our true nature. See the toys for what they are and let go of them. It's not only possible, it's actually very easy.It's possible for man to live without eyes. This does not make him less. It just makes it virtually impossible to watch television. It's possible for man to live without legs. This also does not make him less of a man. But it makes it difficult to run a marathon.
If you claim that you navigate life without using your mind. What I hear you saying is similar to the claim that you see without using your eyes.
You are correct in stating that mind is not all there is. Falling for the trap of mind is an essential mistake many humans make. However, there is also the trap of disregarding aspects of ourselves as somehow less or inferior to other aspects of self. For example the belief you seem to follow that mind is inferior to some imagined or real higher function that would somehow kick in as soon as we've reached a certain stage of enlightenment overriding all previous functions. That will never happen. And if it seems to happen you're not fully integrated yet. There are "higher" functions to be found. But they will never exclude current functions unless you lobotomize yourself.
You also made the assumption earlier that it's everyone's goal to go beyond consensus reality. I personally didn't have a lot of problems to stand outside of reality. I've been speaking to aliens for as long as I can remember. I had big problems coming into consensus reality. I am an alien. I came to this planet to connect one place to the other. If I were to achieve enlightenment I would effectively connect my origin to my origin not achieving much. I came here to be human. I came here to be exactly what I am today. At first I was ascended above society. I was not from this place. Like the lotus flower I grew above the mud. The things in this world had little to do with me I just wanted to get out of there. It took me the longest time to not be an ascetic and instead be connected.
Today I'm a peanut. Up to my neck in the dirt and loving every second of it. If my goal was to become an enlightened master I'd have stayed at home. There's actually quite a bunch of them there. What I found however is that in spite of the dirt we remain free. We are not defined by the dirt. We are the principle that defines the dirt. The IAM that creates.