In regards to eating meat

[Bring4th_Austin]

Wow, abridgetoofar, what an insightful and heartfelt post! I will do my best to address the points you made, with the understanding that I am not in your shoes, and I don't have all the answers, but am just another seeker trying to do the best I can on this planet, just like you are. All I can do is offer my own opinions, for what they're worth.

I also would like to point out an important distinction between your questions and others who seemed to be seeking approval or justification from me. It's not my place to 'approve' or judge anyone's diet or lifestyle, which is why I avoid commenting on anyone's personal choices, but prefer to focus only on the concepts.

I feel the reason people may do this would be the same reason I (somewhat unconsciously) singled you out in this thread. You provide the best “vegetarian backboard” I know; that is to say, you are articulate, thorough, and your passion for this topic is beyond admirable. I know that when I bounce any ideas about the consumption of meat off of you, they will come back proper and heart-felt. Within this discussion I am seeking approval from myself above all else, and I knew that having this discussion would help (which it already has), so for that I thank you greatly.

I will first reiterate that I don't like the design of this planet, and I fully intend to report back to the Logos my opinion, which is, I believe, part of my own particular mission here. Sort of a reconnaissance, to actually feel what it's like to suffer intensely. We've all suffered, of course, but I feel very strongly that the formula of allowing such intense suffering to facilitate spiritual evolution has been taken too far. This topic has been explored in a couple of other threads, even to the point of questioning why animals in the wild must endure the constant itching from fleas!

I agree, I remember a quote from a member along the lines of “free will in this needs and overhaul.” However, I keep in the forefront of my mind that I knew what I was doing when I incarnated here; in a major sense, we all did. I can only imagine the fruits of the lessons learned by an awakened individual on this planet. I am very excited to carry these lessons with me throughout the cosmos as I walk the steps of light in service to others, sharing with them the craziness that was my 2D/3D environment!

So, in order to convey my thoughts about your questions, I'd like to make clear that I consider it a responsibility of Wanderers (or, at least, those who feel so inclined towards this particular task) to do what we can to raise the vibration of this planet, and that includes illuminating and transforming suffering in general, meaning that the suffering of our 2D brethren cannot be ignored.

I take up this honor/duty/responsibility with great excitement for the opportunity to bring this awareness. Oneness with all will be remembered here.

I know that you and I are in agreement that factory farming is atrocious. I would even go so far to say it is inherently evil, in the same category as war. I see no good in it at all. Zero. It is 100% STS, in my opinion. Please note that I am speaking of the industry itself, not the individual hapless farmers who may have gotten sucked into a system they don't know how to get out of. (Just as I consider the pharmaceutical drug industry as inherently STS, as an industry, but that doesn't mean the individual pharmacists or doctors are STS. I hope everyone understands this very important distinction.)

I will agree that the industry seems to be completely STS. However, our opinion may differ on the individual farmers. They can see their animals suffer to a much greater extent than their consumers. They scoff at animal rights. I can love them and forgive them for their choices, but as has been talked about extensively on these forums: I don’t have to accept those choices. And choices they are, when alternatives to animal cruelty are offered and dismissed or belittled in the interest of self-preservation. That is, as you say, 100% STS.

As I stated in a previous post in this thread, we know from Ra that, in 4D, we will be consuming living foods, and in 5D a nectar is consumed.

I find it absurd to think that we could go from eating dead animal carcasses wrapped in plastic, that were killed mindlessly and cruelly at a factory farm, to consuming living foods or nectar, in an instant.

As Edgar Cayce said, "You don't go to heaven, you grow to heaven."

We won't just go poof and find ourselves in 4D, consuming living foods, right after eating a hamburger at McDonald's.

That seems incongruent to me. Consciousness must be shifted, and consciousness shifts in stages, though it remains ever possible to have that sudden, instant grand shift in consciousness (though not probable!).

Facilitating this shift in consciousness from accepting the atrocities of factory farms, to actually caring about how the animals were raised, is a crucially important part of this process! Thus, I see your service as being extremely important, because you are offering a path in the direction of increased awareness and a reduction in cruelty.

I wish that 4D were here with full blown telepathy, because I truly want to share with you the amazing synchronistic energy I’ve experienced in my life the past six months regarding this very shift in consciousness you’re talking about (alas I don’t have the time). It brought tears to my eyes today, the good kind. I will have to elaborate at another time, perhaps in a thread dedicated to what I’ve been experiencing. Simply put, there has been an incredible shift in consumer consciousness regarding the production and treatment of their food. The numbers are incredible. The opportunities are incredible. My life, in regards to this very topic we are discussing right now, has been incredible.

Just as the step from point a to point b is a progression, so too is the step from point b to point c.

What is the goal? It is as you said: No needless suffering/killing at all. Point z is a 4D planet where, presumably, the lion will lie beside the lamb, and wolves will no longer itch from fleas.

Or, maybe point Z is a planet where the 2D environment continues as it does now, but completely un-infringed upon by our 4D selves. The planet you discuss would be amazing, but it exists somewhere already, probably in many forms.

How do we get there? We have to start by no longer supporting factory farms. That is an important first step.

Going vegetarian is an important step.

Where does killing bugs and weeds fit into this continuum?

That too is a step along the way. You are obviously becoming acutely aware of the plight of not only animals, but bugs and weeds. Increased awareness is always a step in the right direction, so I commend you for that!

This statement helps me realize even clearer the “step” process you’re describing. It makes me realize that possibly, my awareness might be slightly jumping ahead of the circumstances I incarnated to help change, at least at this stage of my life.

I have only a small backyard garden, and so far have not had to kill any bugs. I did find a fat, fuzzy caterpillar whom I tossed in the empty field next door, but other than that I've been lucky so far. I have had good success with talking to wasps and getting them to move their nests away from the front door, but I confess to having killed cockroaches and mosquitoes. I'm definitely not exemplary when it comes to bugs! I have recently started working more diligently towards harmonizing with cockroaches and mosquitoes, and the fleas on my dogs. I'm making some progress, thankfully! but still have a ways to go.

I feel that tossing that caterpillar was hardly an infringement. I think the beautiful thing is you didn’t squash it with your boot and go “yuck” as you wiped its guts on the grass. I’ve had similar luck with wasps and such, especially this year. In fact, on an ironically similar note, I recently expressed to the universe an interest in keeping honey bees. Two weeks later, after thinking about it a lot and wondering where I could find a starter queen/hive, a hive of honey bees migrated onto my property! (Luckily, completely out of the way of any disturbance.) Now I just need to find the time to learn ALL about beekeeping. I hope they stick around for a while.

But I am working on it. I am letting most weeds grow, and some useful, edible weeds have popped up, which I am treating like the cultivated plants. I have a lot more freedom to do this, since my garden is not my livelihood, as yours is. I don't envy your situation!

Please tell me, what weeds are edible!? (And I’ll pray they grow here!) I’ve found myself thinking very often to myself, “why can’t lettuce and cabbage and kale grow as prolifically as these weeds…hunger would be eliminated!” I wouldn’t have too much trouble experimenting with edible weeds, but it is the invasive ones that will affect my production and I must control fastidiously, as well as the bugs.

I foresee a point in the continuum being total harmony with Nature, so that no bugs or weeds are killed. There are a number of books about this (whose titles I previously posted somewhere), so clearly some people are doing this successfully. They are forming pacts with the plant devas and insect populations, allowing them free reign in designated areas, and the system seems to be working beautifully!

I have also heard that this is the key, allowing them a certain part or number of the crops. I have my own communication methods of doing this, with mixed results (some weeks it seems to work and some weeks my leafy greens have more holes than swiss cheese). We’re still expanding the garden, so hopefully soon we’ll have enough to offer the buggers. Unfortunately, at this point, we have to keep up enough production for two farmers’ markets AND feed ourselves, so we harvest everything we can every week.

I just read in one of those books, about a new idea of letting gardens be semi-wild. Rather than eradicate all the weeds, some farmers are letting useful weeds grow, and are even creating a market for them in upscale restaurants!

Did you know that wild dandelion greens are about 100 times more nutritious than cultivated lettuce?

There are some vendors that sell dandelion greens at the markets here, I never thought twice about it! Thanks for this information, I’ll have to learn how to take advantage of this. Consumers are moving very rapidly in the direction of sustainable “green” food, produce and meat. I can only imagine things like this will only become more popular.

I however am a novice, so I cannot speak from experience. But I am inspired by these books, and plan to incorporate these methods, as much as possible.

I am also a novice. I only started the full-time farm thing a few months ago (after doing it part time for about a year), taking over a lot of responsibility from my parents’ brand new farm. They seemed to bite off more than they could chew (my dad still works full time and my mom can’t do much in the way of hard labor), and now I’m doing most of the work XD. I’m learning a whole lot very fast and will take any advice from any level gardener!

I don't know whether such practices are practical on a large scale, so I am only offering these ideas for your consideration.

We are dedicated to sustainable farming, with the mantra of “do more with less.” This idea of edible weeds is golden for us and I will definitely investigate it more. Thank you for the inspiration!

Ra has stated that 2D entities gain self-awareness, the prerequisite for harvest to 3D, and this process is facilitated by interaction with 3D entities. Over time, our interactions with our dogs and cats help prepare them for 3D.

I don't see any such interaction with individual aphids.

We tend to interact with colonies of aphids, not individual ones.

Can’t 3D awareness come naturally, without interaction with 3D entities? I cannot recall a specific Ra comment about this, but how else would a planet gain 3D entities without already existing 3D entities? Wouldn’t it be possible, if aphid consciousness were left completely in the hands of 2D nature for millions/possibly billions of years of evolution, it would become self-aware? This may not be as much of a counter-point as a simple point.

Hierarchy does come into play. How can it not?

It's not about inherent value of the entities. The individual aphid has just as much inherent value as you or I.

I am not worth more than that aphid just because I am more evolved.

But, it's about practicality and efficiency. A 3D entity has a lot more invested in this lifetime than a 2D entity. Look at how much time, care, and preparation the soul invested before incarnating! All the way down to pre-incarnational programming. Incarnating into a 3D body is quite a big deal!

Furthermore, that aphid never had the time nor the luxury, to develop self-awareness. You are likely not addressing every individual aphid - how can you? You see a colony of aphids on the tomato plant and you're thinking about aphids, not an aphid.

There might be more projection of awareness onto a slug or caterpillar, but even so, not likely enough to trigger self-awareness in that slug or caterpillar.

Thus, while the slug has just as much inherent value as you or I, it doesn't have as much invested in this lifetime. It can roll with getting killed a lot more easily than we can. Death isn't as traumatizing to a bug as it is to a cow or goat, for the simple reason that the cow or goat is more awake and aware than the bug.

I realize that my opinions are likely going to get challenged. I will be asked, How do you know the slug isn't as aware as the goat? Well, by common sense, based on what Ra has told us.

Your opinions, if I could just simply make them my own, would be very beneficial to me (not to say this discussion hasn’t already been helpful). Are you referring to a specific Ra transcription, or the Ra material in general?

I definitely will say that a goat or a chicken have much more apparent personality than an aphid. They interact with each other and with nature in ways I would never imagine a bug doing. Is this a factor you personally use to determine level of self-awareness?

I could be wrong, but I don't think so. To me, it's common sense that an entity evolved enough to be self-aware, wouldn't incarnate into the body of a slug! Why would it do that, when it could make much more progress in the body of a goat, cat or dog?

The way I always understood 2D incarnation was that the soul incarnated into the same animal consciousness every time, until the biological pool became unviable or the entity was harvested. I think I drew this understanding from Ra, but I could very well be wrong about it. I will try to find some verification, otherwise, we’re both just admittedly speculating.

Just as it makes sense to me that an entity evolved enough for self-awareness, including an aversion to pain and suffering, wouldn't incarnate into the body of a carrot. Why would it do that, when it could incarnate into a bird who is mobile and can fly away from predators?

I’ve used the example of the chickens’ inherent docile state at night in this thread (or the one on The Responsibility of Participation). Does a chicken choosing to incarnate into that condition mean the chicken is okay with being killed, if only at night? Remember that the chicken is awake and aware, but does not fight or flee in the face of danger. I recently discovered (just last night in fact…) this is not the case for all breeds of chickens, but most I’ve encountered (a possum is able to kill every chicken in a chicken coop without a peep from the chickens).

Our differing theories on 2D incarnation render this particular point rather difficult to discuss. Is a carrot really choosing to incarnate as a carrot, or is it doing so because that is where its soul originated: carrot mass consciousness? Will a carrot know it will incarnate into a garden or into the wild? What about a goat, or a chicken? When I have some time I will try to find some conclusive answers on the nature of 2D incarnation.

It's not just a matter of numbers. Yes, a greater number of aphids are being killed than goats, but the goats are far more sentient, and although that doesn't make them any more valuable to the Creator, it does mean that they have more invested in their incarnation than the aphids.

I can see how a goat’s incarnation is more invested than an aphids in a sense, but couldn’t it also be true that the goat that is killed might also be instantly reincarnating as another goat? The goat might be more able to interact with its environment, more able to flee death, but if an aphid were aware it were about to die, would it really be more okay with it than the goat? And wouldn’t using the aphid’s lack of awareness as justification to kill it be similar to killing a goat in its sleep?

Maybe the only way to make sense of the situation is to weigh out the overall net good effect from our actions. What is the net good of offering organic produce and meat from animals who were cared for and treated humanely?

I would say that the net good, in terms of raising the awareness of 3D entities, far outweighs the net bad, in terms of the bugs killed.

I cannot thank you enough for this statement. The idea was dancing around in my consciousness without coming forward, and it helps to alleviate much of the weight on my heart. And not necessarily because of the hierarchy you describe, which I admit I will probably still wrestle with, but because it helps me realize that to get to the point where I will not have to slaughter bugs, I might just have to slaughter a few. In a grand sense, these bugs are offering their incarnation to this very purpose.

You are providing a very important service, at this point in time, given the current state of awareness on this planet. I must be honest and tell you that I foresee a time in which no animals are ever slaughtered for food, and you already know that I see, as a goal to aspire to, a planet that is entirely vegetarian.

And when this time arrives, maybe the lives of weeds and bugs will be in the forefront of peoples’ minds.

I will also be honest and say that I don't really understand the necessity for offering meat at all, when there is a profitable market for goat's milk, eggs, and organic produce. But, again, I see that as a continuum.

As far as the meat that I personally offer, it has to do with offering meat consumers with a sustainable, humane option. If there were not sustainable humanely raised meats for consumers to buy, they’d continue to support the old meat industry. Goat meat is extremely healthy, and goats are the most sustainable red meat (and possibly the most sustainable meat period). Goat meat is also a quickly growing market, and has helped us secure places in farmers’ markets we otherwise wouldn’t have gotten into with just eggs and produce. But honestly, we were guided to raise goats by divine sources (higher selves), and these reasons were discovered later.

In the meantime, farmers like you are providing a very important service, to raise awareness, in pursuit of that eventual goal. I realize that you might not agree with my vision of a vegetarian society, but I'm just explaining how I see your service as fitting into that picture, rather than being in opposition to it.

It’s not at all that I don’t agree with your vision of a vegetarian society; I definitely see it in the future. You might secretly think “that’s kind of hypocritical” :p, but with the amount of love and appreciation I have for my meat animals, I really don’t feel uncomfortable having meat in my diet. You might be happy to know that I only actually eat meat in 3-4 meals a week rather than 3 meals a day like many others. This particular existential quandary happened to come from the production of our produce, but this discussion has been therapeutic and has helped clear the air somewhat.

Maybe you will join with the other farmers and gardeners who are pioneering new techniques for working harmoniously with the plant and insect oversouls.

I had not considered this reality, and it does excite me.

There is a reason you aren't satisfied with killing bugs and weeds. Maybe it's to provide a catalyst for you to take your art to the next level, and lead the way for the rest of us.

Thank you so much, you have offered me a completely different view on my crisis. Maybe the heaviness I’ve felt lately was to remind me to keep this idea in the forefront of my mind, so when the time is right I will have the basic tools needed to help make some real changes in the way we look at weeds and bugs.

Blessings to you!

And to you! I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to type out such an incredible post. You’ve offered me some new perspectives to consider, and I’m able to relieve some of the weight on my heart. There is still much contemplation to do on my part, but this has been a very helpful discussion for me.

Adonai, Monica!