In regards to eating meat

[Monica]

i disagree, because there is no pointer that can formulate an agreement that goes 'plants have offered themselves to be consumed by humans'.

You're right that it cannot be proven that such an agreement exists. I am basing this on my own experience with herbs and with my garden, as well as reading of others' experiences with plant devas, such as the beautifully written Findhorn Garden. I have also visited Findhorn and have seen this relationship in action. It is something beautiful; not grisly like a slaughterhouse.

However, I am well aware that some people claiming to be shamans or psychics, claim to have communicated with animals, and they claim to have the same relationship with animals. I don't see how this could be possible, being that animals have clearly, indisputably, communicated their pain and distress to us. I think those psychics are simply justifying their desire for meat, because their opinion directly conflicts with simple observation (by going to a slaughterhouse).

My opinion is subjective. When it comes to plants, it cannot be proven one way or the other.

Therefore, I respect your opinion that plants feel pain as much as animals do, though I am not yet convinced of that.

In the case of animals, it is an entirely different matter, in the sense that we KNOW they don't want to be killed.

In the case of plants, it is still a subject for much debate and discussion.

My objective is to start with that which we KNOW.

the fact that plant is an immobile creature, and does not talk or scream or yell the way an animal does, is not a validation for 'offering itself for consumption'. there are a lot of non plant creatures which cannot scream or yell. that doesnt make them 'free for consumption'.

That's true. Your logic is sound. Which is why I offer these ideas as speculative only, and do not claim them to be fact.

the reason for ending the bodily manifestation of any entity does not matter.

I disagree here. I think it does matter. Different beings have different life cycles and different agendas for physical incarnation. Being that plants provide food for all higher lifeforms on this planet, it is reasonable to surmise that being consumed by higher lifeforms might be part of their normal life cycle.

Not provable, but reasonable as a possibility.

what matters is, the bodily manifestation of an entity ends. since the reason for 2d existence is trying to progress, develop without getting disseminated, and also move at will, with direction. both animals and plants (and heaven knows what kind of other creature types that exist in the existence) do it in their own style.

Yes. Key word here being in their own style. Which is precisely the point I made in my last comment. We don't really know the objective of plants. We can only speculate. It would be just as inaccurate to say we know they desire to be eaten, as it would be to say we know they don't. Either one is a viable possibility.

Whereas, with animals, we can safely say that one of those possibilities has been eliminated.

one thing common is, once their bodily incarnation ends, they cannot progress and move their self. they need another incarnation.

It is less tangible as to when their incarnation ends. Does a lettuce incarnation end when some leaves are harvested? Is a new soul born when a strand of ivy is cut from the plant and planted on its own, growing into a new plant?

Is the plant even an entity at all, if it's not yet self-aware?

This is the crux of the issue. As I asked previously in this thread, at what point does elemental life become an entity?

Is a rock an entity? If I crush a rock, is each little shard an entity?

this is about us, ourselves, than other people. other people have their own spirits, their own path, own route. they may not even be able to come to the same point in a hundred million years, or they may come to it in a flash of lightning. they will follow their own spirit's path.

its about us. our choices and understandings at any given point, will shape our future experience and where these experiences will be, with whom, and their nature.

It's true that we can't control what others do. I agree we have to start with ourselves.

However, part of our own spiritual growth is in recognizing that we do affect others. We have to take responsibility for that. Especially now, when many of us incarnated with the express purpose of lightening the vibration on this planet.