05-10-2019, 11:57 AM
First of all, there is no "fair." There is just what is. I start with what is.
In an ideal world this would be true. But we aren't there yet. In the meantime, as women, we can either be victims or be proactive.
Women, if we are singling them out as possible victims of a crime, can learn self-defense. This lifts them from general victimhood in this case.
As for the hygiene products, that's capitalism and supply and demand—not prejudice against a gender.
There are two sides to the relationship issue—the man's and the woman's (or the woman's and the woman's, or the man's and the man's, or the unspecified person's and the other person). I am going to use "man" and "woman" for the purposes of this post.
If the man expects the woman to do all the housekeeping, the woman has a choice to comply or not. There is no way I would "do what I was told" or just cower under anyone's expectations. However, this issue is real. I don't think at all that men in general "expect it" as much as they just don't think about it (unless we are talking about the 50s generation and before). So let's start with no blame and go from there.
Once you let go of blame and being a victim, this opens the door to solutions. The first step is to educate the man without pointing the finger. I have had this conversation with a boyfriend. I explained that my quality of life was reduced due to the unequal participation in housekeeping. To backtrack a little, I wouldn't be with a person who is chauvinistic or bigoted in the first place. Things got better but not "equal"—because my standards of housekeeping were different than his, and this is not usually considered in the conversation about inequality of gender in this issue. When you are stuck thinking it's oppression of women, you don't consider things such as there being a difference in how clean a person likes a house.
The point is to treat each other as individuals, not as a member of a group such as "men" or "women" with attributes assigned to the label.
This is a curious fact. As far as I know, men do more violent crime in general than women, therefore the statistics make it look like gender oppression (which it may be), but it may be just a subset of the larger violent crime statistic. Men's bodies have higher levels of testosterone and have evolved physically to be more aggressive and strong in oder to fight predators etc. Women's bodies evolved to bear viable children.
This is true. But our society also disempowers everybody. We have as a race been generally patriarchal for a long time, and to shift this imbalance, blaming society won't help. Society is fickle, easily lead, and most times ridiculous in my view. Government may play a role in balancing inequality, but the real change must be in individuals. And by that I mean women, regarding this issue of the patriarchy.
The real change happens within. No matter what laws are made, or what society thinks, it's what the individual thinks and feels that matters. From that change flow decisions made that are quite different than decisions made from a victim attitude.
While all of this may be true, let's go back to "what is." If a woman shifts her thinking to what she can do about any or all of these things, from the realities of how unequal things are, she can move forward positively in whatever ways she can. From this standpoint, as individual women start moving forward regardless of the unequal situation, things in general change, instead of waiting to be saved by someone or something outside of self. And in many ways this is happening.
I don't mean to say this is easy. There are countries where the oppression of women is pretty bad—Saudi Arabia for example. But I think women in less restrictive countries can help the world consciousness by rising above the victim mentality. As women, we make choices, and then we make choices about the consequences of those choices.
Let's take the example of a woman who has children, and depends on the man's income. A woman may find herself in this situation and feel trapped, which is understandable. But it's a trap mentally as well. By thinking outside the box, she can find a way to stop being a victim. She could ally with other women in the same situation for instance, and create a cooperative in which they share childcare allowing the mothers to work. They could buy food cooperatively. This is off the top of my head, but the point is to do something about it even though the general situation is unfair. This makes a shift from victimhood to empowerment. She can also take responsibility for the decisions made that got her to that point. This is NOT me blaming. This is just me pointing out personal responsibility and accountability, which doesn't alleviate responsibility or accountability from other individuals involved. But it is necessary to get the bigger picture.
This goes back to fickle society. Transgender is basically new. Not long ago, seeing gay men wigged out most people. But the gay community stuck it out and stood up for themselves and things changed somewhat. Change is usually slow. It must be very difficult for transgender individuals. But life is not easy for anyone and we all have pain. It's the nature of this existence.
(05-09-2019, 09:15 AM)Spaced Wrote: Feminism has nothing to do with women playing in the NFL. It's about basic human rights. Women should be paid the same amount if they are doing the same job as a man. Women should have equal representation in politics and business.
In an ideal world this would be true. But we aren't there yet. In the meantime, as women, we can either be victims or be proactive.
(05-09-2019, 09:15 AM)Spaced Wrote: Women should not fear for their safety walking down a street alone.
Women, if we are singling them out as possible victims of a crime, can learn self-defense. This lifts them from general victimhood in this case.
(05-09-2019, 09:15 AM)Spaced Wrote: Often times in a relationship women are expected to do all the housekeeping in addition to having a full-time job for which they are paid less than their male counterparts. Women also have to pay more for hygiene products (the so-called pink tax: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_tax).
As for the hygiene products, that's capitalism and supply and demand—not prejudice against a gender.
There are two sides to the relationship issue—the man's and the woman's (or the woman's and the woman's, or the man's and the man's, or the unspecified person's and the other person). I am going to use "man" and "woman" for the purposes of this post.
If the man expects the woman to do all the housekeeping, the woman has a choice to comply or not. There is no way I would "do what I was told" or just cower under anyone's expectations. However, this issue is real. I don't think at all that men in general "expect it" as much as they just don't think about it (unless we are talking about the 50s generation and before). So let's start with no blame and go from there.
Once you let go of blame and being a victim, this opens the door to solutions. The first step is to educate the man without pointing the finger. I have had this conversation with a boyfriend. I explained that my quality of life was reduced due to the unequal participation in housekeeping. To backtrack a little, I wouldn't be with a person who is chauvinistic or bigoted in the first place. Things got better but not "equal"—because my standards of housekeeping were different than his, and this is not usually considered in the conversation about inequality of gender in this issue. When you are stuck thinking it's oppression of women, you don't consider things such as there being a difference in how clean a person likes a house.
The point is to treat each other as individuals, not as a member of a group such as "men" or "women" with attributes assigned to the label.
(05-09-2019, 09:15 AM)Spaced Wrote: Couple that with the fact that more women are far more likely to be murdered by their spouses (an average of 3 women are murdered by an intimate partner every day in the US) and we start to see the bigger picture:
This is a curious fact. As far as I know, men do more violent crime in general than women, therefore the statistics make it look like gender oppression (which it may be), but it may be just a subset of the larger violent crime statistic. Men's bodies have higher levels of testosterone and have evolved physically to be more aggressive and strong in oder to fight predators etc. Women's bodies evolved to bear viable children.
(05-09-2019, 09:15 AM)Spaced Wrote: Our society actively disempowers women.
This is true. But our society also disempowers everybody. We have as a race been generally patriarchal for a long time, and to shift this imbalance, blaming society won't help. Society is fickle, easily lead, and most times ridiculous in my view. Government may play a role in balancing inequality, but the real change must be in individuals. And by that I mean women, regarding this issue of the patriarchy.
The real change happens within. No matter what laws are made, or what society thinks, it's what the individual thinks and feels that matters. From that change flow decisions made that are quite different than decisions made from a victim attitude.
(05-09-2019, 09:15 AM)Spaced Wrote: [Women] have less access to resources since they make less money and have to spend more on necessities, they have less time as they often have the burden of maintaining the household, they have less representation in politics and the courts which decide laws that affect them and often they have little agency in their own lives as men can use violence to shut them down if they "step out of line."
While all of this may be true, let's go back to "what is." If a woman shifts her thinking to what she can do about any or all of these things, from the realities of how unequal things are, she can move forward positively in whatever ways she can. From this standpoint, as individual women start moving forward regardless of the unequal situation, things in general change, instead of waiting to be saved by someone or something outside of self. And in many ways this is happening.
I don't mean to say this is easy. There are countries where the oppression of women is pretty bad—Saudi Arabia for example. But I think women in less restrictive countries can help the world consciousness by rising above the victim mentality. As women, we make choices, and then we make choices about the consequences of those choices.
Let's take the example of a woman who has children, and depends on the man's income. A woman may find herself in this situation and feel trapped, which is understandable. But it's a trap mentally as well. By thinking outside the box, she can find a way to stop being a victim. She could ally with other women in the same situation for instance, and create a cooperative in which they share childcare allowing the mothers to work. They could buy food cooperatively. This is off the top of my head, but the point is to do something about it even though the general situation is unfair. This makes a shift from victimhood to empowerment. She can also take responsibility for the decisions made that got her to that point. This is NOT me blaming. This is just me pointing out personal responsibility and accountability, which doesn't alleviate responsibility or accountability from other individuals involved. But it is necessary to get the bigger picture.
(05-09-2019, 09:15 AM)Spaced Wrote: This isn't even going into the treatment of trans individuals (which is a touchy subject here given the sometimes shockingly conservative attitudes towards gender).
This goes back to fickle society. Transgender is basically new. Not long ago, seeing gay men wigged out most people. But the gay community stuck it out and stood up for themselves and things changed somewhat. Change is usually slow. It must be very difficult for transgender individuals. But life is not easy for anyone and we all have pain. It's the nature of this existence.