12-08-2017, 02:25 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2017, 12:56 AM by Bring4th_Austin.)
(12-07-2017, 08:00 PM)Dante776 Wrote: But with the current climate of dozens of men that have been falling like dominoes, while women, who also harass men (although under-reported) are not discussed at all in the media makes me wonder what's really going on here.
Even with the recent cultural phenomenon of holding certain men in power (certainly not all men who harass, yet), harassment by men against women is still wildly under-reported as well. And there is nothing about the concept of the taboo against men reporting harassment that is invalidated by the focus on voices of women who have been harassed. Bringing up this issue as a counterpoint to holding men responsible is a form of whataboutism that seems to more attempt to silence the women than give a voice to male victims.
"What's really going on here?" How this relates to the complicated nature of gender relations and sexual harassment in society is likely an incredibly difficult and nuanced answer. But by and large, most simply, what I see going on here is society giving women who are harassed a voice for the first time.
Quote:So, I have to ask the question...Why aren't men fighting back? Now, I'm not saying none of these allegations aren't true, but I just don't think that it's fair to portray a one sided view of this phenomenon.
Powerful men (and men in general) not being held accountable for their abuses is an issue in and of itself. Due to the nuance I mentioned above, it can be seen as distinct from the issue of men being harassed by women. That means it is the issue being discussed, not an issue being portrayed with a one-sided view.
Quote:Many of these men are being accused, tried in the media, castigated and fired from their positions without any investigation or a chance to air their side of the story.
I encourage you to search out accounts of women who have attempted and failed to seek justice through our law enforcement and legal systems (and other social systems of accountability). Bottom line is, up to this point, women could not rely on our systems to hold men accountable. There was almost nothing to be done whenever an abuse was suffered. This has been, and still is, a deep systemic issue that virtually every woman deals with in our society.
Quote:It makes me wonder if much of this is just another attempt at the Illuminati elite controlled media to deflect attention away from real issues in the world such as loss of freedom, corrupt banksters, UFOs, alien abductions, demonic possessions, secret societies, and satanism.
This is a "real issue," especially for the women who have suffered.
Quote:Are some women in the feminist movement just using this issue in their quest for power?
Any social issue can be abused and used to further a social agenda. I don't know what exactly you're asking, maybe it's true, but it doesn't invalidate the issue.
Quote:Furthermore, will all of this put undue pressure on male female social relations which are already somewhat strained?
Consider that they've always been strained and that men have simply been blind to it. And now women are being listened to when they are talking about how they've been strained. I understand that it is a difficult issue for some men to grasp, but this is not new social harm - it is social harm being brought to light.
Quote:We need to step back and look at all of this rationally and fairly and consider the consequences that this may have down the road.
This is another complicated and nuanced factor. Put yourself in the shoes of a woman who has been abused, been denied recourse through our systems of accountability, finally find that your voice is beginning to be heard, and a bunch of men step up and say, "Hey now, wait a minute, quiet down and let's think about this."
Quote:But many of us have heard of powerful women that harass men in the workplace also. Why doesn't this come up in these conversations? We've also heard of women in education that have had sexual tristes with their male students. Why haven't they mentioned it? Maybe it's because they are not high profile enough? I don't know. But, I'm sure if some investigative journalist were to dig deep enough, they're likely to find just as many women in Hollywood, Madison Avenue, Wall Street and maybe even Capitol Hill that have had similar claims against them in the past that somehow went unchecked.
Again, part of the nuanced issue, but consider this: of the 500 Fortune 500 companies, only 32 CEOs are women. 6.4%. (Other figures - 21% of the US Senate, 19% of the US House of Representatives.) I know, this isn't an accurate way to figure out the gender makeup of people in power, but it's a pretty good snapshot. The difference likely isn't as drastic as we travel down the ladder, but this is a good indicator of who holds positions of power. It's logical to a assume that a vast majority of people in power who are abusers are men, even if that is just because they hold the majority of the positions of power (though the sociology of gender issues probably makes it more complicated than that).
Quote:With more than 2000 men filing sexual harassment charges with the EEOC last year in 2016 (mostly against women in the workplace), where are these men and why aren't we hearing their stories? Why are guys just taking this quietly? Where are the men's advocacy groups? Where's their media platform? It really does beg the question...Why aren't men fighting back?
Those men filing sexual harassment charges make up 16% of the total sexual harassment charges. That is not a statement saying that their voices don't deserve to be heard, but it is an illustration of why women suffering abuses from men (or more broadly, men who abuse) is an issue in and of itself.
I understand that giving women the spotlight here feels as though men who are legitimately suffering are being ignored, but there are ways to talk about that and bring it up in ways that isn't a counterpoint to the issue of men abusing women.
PS.
I've moved this thread to Olio.
_____________________________
The only frontier that has ever existed is the self.
The only frontier that has ever existed is the self.