11-23-2010, 08:43 PM
Lack of information on history may allow one to make errors in judgment. it is understandable how you perceive my approach as 'narrow minded', due to the lack of enough information on the examples you have given. i am going to detail a bit, and tie them into an important point.
Gandhi had no money, and he was able to gain independence because his movement came at a time when entire western world was sick of wars, nationalism and imperialism. british and french have lost 300,000 a day in assaults on western front very often in world war i, the total cost of the war was too high and its results were too low. for the first time, a war touched almost every home, and it made people question the causes, justifications of such nationalism and imperialism. the support was so low that british government had itself in a harder position trying to justify what british troops were doing in russia, fighting against russians to bring back tsar into power http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_inte..._Civil_War, for example. Similarly, they have partitioned anatolia, from old ottoman empire, but were not able to send troops to even enforce the occupation against the turks rebelling, and instead 'encouraged' greece to launch an occupation into anatolia, so that they would fight the turk independence movement. same goes for france. france was trying to enforce occupation of se anatolia with mere 300 or so soldiers.
in this climate, sympathy for the independence causes of the dominions, the minority rights were incomparably higher than it had been in the victorian era. gandhi, after starting his campaign in india, had received considerable support from british public, which could easily be seen from the way he was received in times when he visited britain after that point.
moreover, the press/media, which was an everyday element, bringing news of the world into every household, was contributing greatly to the support he was receiving in western countries.
had it been in the period of boer war or earlier, gandhi would have probably been killed by british governorial forces on the spot. just like how british army committed the first organized genocide of the century on their own kin (boers) in concentration camps.
so, gandhi was there with the right method, at the right time. had he been incarnated earlier, like mid 18th century, or, god forbid, earlier, he would have been easily killed. even if he wasnt killed, his effort would not be successful.
the founding fathers of the u.s., who are actually followers of the ideals of age of enlightenment mainly perpetuated by french thinkers and writers in 18th century, had mounted a fully armed rebellion, at a time when their oppressor was weak due to a long 6 year war with its arch enemy. and even in that case, the people who were desirous of the freedom on the ideals you speak of, were few compared to the mass of the population. so much that even at the start of the resistance, it was about taxes, and majority of people had no ideas about country without a king. people like thomas paine, whom the very people he woke up the freedom, were the ones who advocated the idea, even though ironically being effectively excommunicated from their own country by their countrymen, because of increasing regressionism and conservatism. u.s. revolution ended up the way it did, is due to a small minority among the rebels acting smart and moving towards a certain ideal. some of which were already revealed to us as wanderers, by the way.
.....................
the monster becomes unstoppable, when you fail to see it around the corner. because, by the time you reach the corner, the monster headbutts into you. in the above situations, those people you are giving examples of, did the right things, at the right time, in the right way. they knew what they were against, they didnt just sit it out by being optimistic, and just hoping, and just underestimating the desires and capability of those they were against. instead, they have moved consciously, totally aware of the situation, and didnt leave anything to chance. this even includes the founding fathers you speak of, extensively petitioning and procuring the support of a country, france, which had a monarchy much more strict and autocratic than britain, in all respects. had french navy not been sitting just to the west of the colonies and fighting british navy at every opportunity and halting them, things would turn out to be different.
money = power when normal people dont stand up for their own interests, and, the private interests you underestimate are much more aware about this than you, or any of those normal people. this is precisely why the parent corporations of a few media studios in united states totally own news distribution in united states http://pineight.com/mw/index.php?title=MPAA_news
have you heard about acta before ? i guess not. but maybe, being active on the internet, you had. however, majority of masses in america, STILL has no idea about the existence of acta, leave aside what it means for their own daily lives, despite their government is the one trying to push it onto entire world, including their own citizens.
the sole reason being the news channels never mentioning existence of it. its as simple as that.
and the sole reason why copying their daughter's birthday video to cd wont become a copyright infringement or a no-no in a few months, is that, the people in europe did not do the same - they did not wait and hope, or just expect the 'normal people' to stand up to private interests, but moved to protect themselves. a small contingent of aware people from sweden and a number of other small countries have alerted entire european parliament to what the usa was trying to do so effectively that, the parliament have passed a resolution effectively killing acta in essence, from the very points which the private interests were going to grope entire world from. the vote was adopted with 630 over 660 parliamentarians or something, a whopping majority, indicative of strong message. that being said, usa is STILL trying to push it, and trying to get whatever it can, even if it is a few small stuff at the expense of people's freedoms.
the above didnt happen by just sitting and expecting 'normal people to stand up'. normal people cant stand up to something they dont know that exists. normal people cant stand up to something, they have been conditioned to not to stand up to. that had only happened because people who were aware of the situation, a small minority, have worked to protect others. it didnt happen by just sitting and expecting 'everything is going to be alright'.
none of the freedoms you are enjoying today were acquired just like that and protected, just like that, by hoping and expecting. doing as such, is just deferring responsibility of protecting the good things into the hands of some 'other' people. its as simple as that.
at this state, european union have saved the world. because, usa's plan was to push it to any country other than russia, china, and then through the combined pressure, push it to them too. with eu blocking it off for close to a billion people, the treaty now is as good as dead. so basically, eu have taken over defending and protecting freedoms and liberties of people, including the american public, who are STILL unaware of what is happening, even as of now.
had people been more sensitive, and took more responsibility, maybe more in usa would be aware of what was going on too.
Gandhi had no money, and he was able to gain independence because his movement came at a time when entire western world was sick of wars, nationalism and imperialism. british and french have lost 300,000 a day in assaults on western front very often in world war i, the total cost of the war was too high and its results were too low. for the first time, a war touched almost every home, and it made people question the causes, justifications of such nationalism and imperialism. the support was so low that british government had itself in a harder position trying to justify what british troops were doing in russia, fighting against russians to bring back tsar into power http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_inte..._Civil_War, for example. Similarly, they have partitioned anatolia, from old ottoman empire, but were not able to send troops to even enforce the occupation against the turks rebelling, and instead 'encouraged' greece to launch an occupation into anatolia, so that they would fight the turk independence movement. same goes for france. france was trying to enforce occupation of se anatolia with mere 300 or so soldiers.
in this climate, sympathy for the independence causes of the dominions, the minority rights were incomparably higher than it had been in the victorian era. gandhi, after starting his campaign in india, had received considerable support from british public, which could easily be seen from the way he was received in times when he visited britain after that point.
moreover, the press/media, which was an everyday element, bringing news of the world into every household, was contributing greatly to the support he was receiving in western countries.
had it been in the period of boer war or earlier, gandhi would have probably been killed by british governorial forces on the spot. just like how british army committed the first organized genocide of the century on their own kin (boers) in concentration camps.
so, gandhi was there with the right method, at the right time. had he been incarnated earlier, like mid 18th century, or, god forbid, earlier, he would have been easily killed. even if he wasnt killed, his effort would not be successful.
the founding fathers of the u.s., who are actually followers of the ideals of age of enlightenment mainly perpetuated by french thinkers and writers in 18th century, had mounted a fully armed rebellion, at a time when their oppressor was weak due to a long 6 year war with its arch enemy. and even in that case, the people who were desirous of the freedom on the ideals you speak of, were few compared to the mass of the population. so much that even at the start of the resistance, it was about taxes, and majority of people had no ideas about country without a king. people like thomas paine, whom the very people he woke up the freedom, were the ones who advocated the idea, even though ironically being effectively excommunicated from their own country by their countrymen, because of increasing regressionism and conservatism. u.s. revolution ended up the way it did, is due to a small minority among the rebels acting smart and moving towards a certain ideal. some of which were already revealed to us as wanderers, by the way.
.....................
the monster becomes unstoppable, when you fail to see it around the corner. because, by the time you reach the corner, the monster headbutts into you. in the above situations, those people you are giving examples of, did the right things, at the right time, in the right way. they knew what they were against, they didnt just sit it out by being optimistic, and just hoping, and just underestimating the desires and capability of those they were against. instead, they have moved consciously, totally aware of the situation, and didnt leave anything to chance. this even includes the founding fathers you speak of, extensively petitioning and procuring the support of a country, france, which had a monarchy much more strict and autocratic than britain, in all respects. had french navy not been sitting just to the west of the colonies and fighting british navy at every opportunity and halting them, things would turn out to be different.
money = power when normal people dont stand up for their own interests, and, the private interests you underestimate are much more aware about this than you, or any of those normal people. this is precisely why the parent corporations of a few media studios in united states totally own news distribution in united states http://pineight.com/mw/index.php?title=MPAA_news
have you heard about acta before ? i guess not. but maybe, being active on the internet, you had. however, majority of masses in america, STILL has no idea about the existence of acta, leave aside what it means for their own daily lives, despite their government is the one trying to push it onto entire world, including their own citizens.
the sole reason being the news channels never mentioning existence of it. its as simple as that.
and the sole reason why copying their daughter's birthday video to cd wont become a copyright infringement or a no-no in a few months, is that, the people in europe did not do the same - they did not wait and hope, or just expect the 'normal people' to stand up to private interests, but moved to protect themselves. a small contingent of aware people from sweden and a number of other small countries have alerted entire european parliament to what the usa was trying to do so effectively that, the parliament have passed a resolution effectively killing acta in essence, from the very points which the private interests were going to grope entire world from. the vote was adopted with 630 over 660 parliamentarians or something, a whopping majority, indicative of strong message. that being said, usa is STILL trying to push it, and trying to get whatever it can, even if it is a few small stuff at the expense of people's freedoms.
the above didnt happen by just sitting and expecting 'normal people to stand up'. normal people cant stand up to something they dont know that exists. normal people cant stand up to something, they have been conditioned to not to stand up to. that had only happened because people who were aware of the situation, a small minority, have worked to protect others. it didnt happen by just sitting and expecting 'everything is going to be alright'.
none of the freedoms you are enjoying today were acquired just like that and protected, just like that, by hoping and expecting. doing as such, is just deferring responsibility of protecting the good things into the hands of some 'other' people. its as simple as that.
at this state, european union have saved the world. because, usa's plan was to push it to any country other than russia, china, and then through the combined pressure, push it to them too. with eu blocking it off for close to a billion people, the treaty now is as good as dead. so basically, eu have taken over defending and protecting freedoms and liberties of people, including the american public, who are STILL unaware of what is happening, even as of now.
had people been more sensitive, and took more responsibility, maybe more in usa would be aware of what was going on too.