The Ivory Tower and the pursuit of knowledge

[Agua del Cielo]

Reedfish,
its not about right or wrong.

I realize this is impossible to convey as a theory or concept, at least very hard.
It has to be experienced.

An example of what i mean (when i say "you" i dont mean only you):

As long as you are ( for whatever teason) identified with the intellectual mind, you will stay "in there" if ever possible.
Whatever we might discuss here then, you would view with the intellect.
If the identification would be so strong you would not be able to imagine consciousness without thought.
You would probably think that you eitherfall asleep or become unconscious.

Now, thats the very purpose of meditation, silent meditation (aiming for stillness).
To still the mind, to loosen that identification and to open yourself for a greater consciousness.

When you, in meditation, experience a state of non-thought, you will without s shadow of doubt experience a few things:
1) awareness or consciousness does NOT rely on thought, not at all
2) thought actually is what makes awareness impossible
3) you will open for your greater consciousness, gradually

If you do silent meditation for some time, its impossible to not agree on this.
But if you do not meditate, if you refuse to let go of the intellectual control, you will just not be able to make this experience.
And, honestly, do you see what this would mean, if it were true?
There would absolutely be no point in discussing this.
As long as you insist on restricting yourself to the intellect, you would just not know, what i am talking about. But there would also be no way to explain it.

I mean whats the very point of debating with someone, as an example, if there is "life afterdeath" or not? You would have to experience it to know and no amount of debating will take you there.

Now, experiencing a greater consciousness in a state of stillness is not that hard, but withoutexperiencing it, any debate is pointless.
Just like vegetarians debating over t-bone steaks.

There is no judgement involved orintended.
If its the path for the moment, perfect!
I was on that road, too, i perfectly understand this.
Its always a matter of "what do i need at this very moment?"

You might perceive this as arrogant, maybe it even is.
But i think clear direct words areneeded here, a diplomatic cautious approach will not help anybody.

Let me say two more things:
I entered this thread because kevn was making a very good and important point.
And i came to support his point, since i felt you were disecting and distorting the important insight he shared.
And many people read thesethreads, not only the members.
So i sometimes feel the need to really support.

Another thing is, instead of endlessly debating if or if not the intellect is a useful tool in seeking, i would prefer to move considerably deeper and rather offerhelp or exchange ideas HOW one can out of this restriction.
But instead the arguments and statements get ever more daring in order to (thats my impression) to defend the defense :/

I dont know if you re familiar with the Quo channelings (they are really worth reading and available here). And i dont wanna instrumentalize quotes to prove my point.
But to them this very information (about the intellect) seems to be very important, they speak about ever and ever again, that its the very hope of the entity when entering the incarnation to realize the intellect is just not a useful tool on the spiritual path.
You might want to check these out!
They also cover many many interesting and (compared with thra material) more "practical life" oriented ideas!