03-12-2017, 12:51 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2017, 01:21 AM by smc.
Edit Reason: small addition
)
while men on this thread - and in the world - day to day - do not listen - and instead continue to speak from positions of supposed authority on the oppressions of people NOT of their gender - nothing will fundamentally change - at least not for those men's perspectives.
NB: it would be a very rare and short lived thread for a white person to presume to tell black people about their experiences, feelings and historical oppression
I have no specific anger with this thread or any people - my wounding or pain or experiences are not up for examination, but I am not angry in my interactions here.
I have no "wall" up either - I am simply being expedient. I'm conserving my energy. I'm getting on with my life. I have no time to give my hard earned knowledge to those who will take it apart bit by bit and disrespect my lived experiences.
Members here have through their words and behaviours shown me a long while ago that they will argue for the stimulation of it - writing from a viewpoint of intellectual detachment or in the case of C_A from a well intentioned but constantly self referring perspective.
Without moderation from others (Jade has done way more than her share) without B4 admin/mods reinforcing that this is a forum of equality for genders/sexualities and races - members here are constantly being bogged down in having to explain and justify their identities and identity discriminations to the dominant white male egregore and anti-feminist or non-active feminist woman members.
There's no diversity in the daily regular posters to B4 and so few members of the 7,000 members enrolled ever contribute because people join and then become silent - because of (for example) - homophobia; advocacy for toxic, poorly made 'designer' drugs; disapproval of controlled, well researched, psychiatric drug therapy; sexism; victim blaming in the guise of "you created your experience of abuse"; and many other inflammatory ideas.
Lately - the mods have left Jade to fend for herself - with occasional comments from Garry - but the guidelines for what is consensus reality for B4 human rights standards are in word only - and not adequately enforced.
Catalyst is all well and good in one regard - but Bring4th mods/admin have the opportunity (imo responsibility) to set loving standards BY EXAMPLE - clearly they created positive - STO guidelines and want them to be applied in interactions - but what is the point in them being written if they are not guiding principles IN ACTION. ?
Not that I should need to say - but Feminism is also about caring for men's negative experiences from patriarchy also. What men need to understand is that the majority of feminists do care about men's oppressions under patriarchy - it's just that with women so disadvantaged we need to prioritise our issues FIRST. The system of patriarchy is tilted in your favour guys - stop criticising women's efforts to liberate themselves - focussing on the flaws is nitpicking, petty, resentful - and selfish! It only show how much you don't understand !
I've been very moved by some of the personal disclosures on this thread recently, and want to express to those sharing such personal and horrible experiences/issues/feelings - that patriarchy caused those abuses - and that I also care very much for men and their pain and their feelings. My entire experience of feminism - life long is that those experiences are also important issues of feminism.
(My parents, 83 and 94 brought me up feminist - my father is a lifelong supporter of equality for women. He became a 'house husband' so my mother could work and study for a university degree - she ended up with a Doctorate in Education - because he worked full time then came home and cooked the meals, and he and his 2 daughters cleaned our family home while she studied and worked full time. )
BTW: - I don't see matriarchy as a solution either - balance of all representations of fe/male is the healthiest.
When you focus on the 'worst' representations of a movement for equal rights and start nit picking ask yourself why you do that?
You wouldn't be okay if a woman started a thread nitpicking all the horrors of dysfunctional male behaviour and insinuate it represents all men?
Stop generalising - don't do this to feminism.
And if anyone wants an amazingly good TV show to watch - to better understand feminism as a response to the daily difficulties for women watch:
"Call The Midwife" BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0118t80
It may be not your 'cup of tea' but if you want a perspective on your parents and grandparents (at least from 'typical life' in England in the 1950's) watch it - I do - because it's my mothers LIVED EXPERIENCE - and it shows the climate in which feminism really found it's further progression. It shows the hardships for ordinary families and the incredible difficulty of being a woman not that long ago.
Things have only recently changed... until recent decades a woman had to give birth and mother a child after pregnancy from a brief sexual encounter and the man could walk away forever if he wished! She might even have died giving birth - and he could be already with another young women getting her pregnant...
Last comment -> for all the philosophical back and forth on B4 - hows about we live our lives being as kind and helpful and loving as possible to people in our daily lives?
Hows about men here stop asking us to explain and justify but become new and improved people in your daily lives wherever you can?
Be good to yourselves so you will be peaceful at heart and be able to be good to others.
Stop being aggressive, stop watching porn - stop justifying a President who is de-funding planned parenthood and abortion - stop playing violent video games - go and do some volunteer work - go and be a role model to young children, your siblings, your girlfriends and wives, your mothers, your fathers...
Stop arguing here on B4 in an echo chamber of self congratulatory metaphysical intellectualism - go volunteer with war veterans, or their widows, or in cancer wards, or take a meal to an impoverished neighbour - go plant flowers and vegetables, live in daily peace and kindness - spread love
be kind
heal yourselves
share daily practical kindness and harmony
be a new human
NB: it would be a very rare and short lived thread for a white person to presume to tell black people about their experiences, feelings and historical oppression
I have no specific anger with this thread or any people - my wounding or pain or experiences are not up for examination, but I am not angry in my interactions here.
I have no "wall" up either - I am simply being expedient. I'm conserving my energy. I'm getting on with my life. I have no time to give my hard earned knowledge to those who will take it apart bit by bit and disrespect my lived experiences.
Members here have through their words and behaviours shown me a long while ago that they will argue for the stimulation of it - writing from a viewpoint of intellectual detachment or in the case of C_A from a well intentioned but constantly self referring perspective.
Without moderation from others (Jade has done way more than her share) without B4 admin/mods reinforcing that this is a forum of equality for genders/sexualities and races - members here are constantly being bogged down in having to explain and justify their identities and identity discriminations to the dominant white male egregore and anti-feminist or non-active feminist woman members.
There's no diversity in the daily regular posters to B4 and so few members of the 7,000 members enrolled ever contribute because people join and then become silent - because of (for example) - homophobia; advocacy for toxic, poorly made 'designer' drugs; disapproval of controlled, well researched, psychiatric drug therapy; sexism; victim blaming in the guise of "you created your experience of abuse"; and many other inflammatory ideas.
Lately - the mods have left Jade to fend for herself - with occasional comments from Garry - but the guidelines for what is consensus reality for B4 human rights standards are in word only - and not adequately enforced.
Catalyst is all well and good in one regard - but Bring4th mods/admin have the opportunity (imo responsibility) to set loving standards BY EXAMPLE - clearly they created positive - STO guidelines and want them to be applied in interactions - but what is the point in them being written if they are not guiding principles IN ACTION. ?
Not that I should need to say - but Feminism is also about caring for men's negative experiences from patriarchy also. What men need to understand is that the majority of feminists do care about men's oppressions under patriarchy - it's just that with women so disadvantaged we need to prioritise our issues FIRST. The system of patriarchy is tilted in your favour guys - stop criticising women's efforts to liberate themselves - focussing on the flaws is nitpicking, petty, resentful - and selfish! It only show how much you don't understand !
I've been very moved by some of the personal disclosures on this thread recently, and want to express to those sharing such personal and horrible experiences/issues/feelings - that patriarchy caused those abuses - and that I also care very much for men and their pain and their feelings. My entire experience of feminism - life long is that those experiences are also important issues of feminism.
(My parents, 83 and 94 brought me up feminist - my father is a lifelong supporter of equality for women. He became a 'house husband' so my mother could work and study for a university degree - she ended up with a Doctorate in Education - because he worked full time then came home and cooked the meals, and he and his 2 daughters cleaned our family home while she studied and worked full time. )
BTW: - I don't see matriarchy as a solution either - balance of all representations of fe/male is the healthiest.
When you focus on the 'worst' representations of a movement for equal rights and start nit picking ask yourself why you do that?
You wouldn't be okay if a woman started a thread nitpicking all the horrors of dysfunctional male behaviour and insinuate it represents all men?
Stop generalising - don't do this to feminism.
And if anyone wants an amazingly good TV show to watch - to better understand feminism as a response to the daily difficulties for women watch:
"Call The Midwife" BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0118t80
It may be not your 'cup of tea' but if you want a perspective on your parents and grandparents (at least from 'typical life' in England in the 1950's) watch it - I do - because it's my mothers LIVED EXPERIENCE - and it shows the climate in which feminism really found it's further progression. It shows the hardships for ordinary families and the incredible difficulty of being a woman not that long ago.
Things have only recently changed... until recent decades a woman had to give birth and mother a child after pregnancy from a brief sexual encounter and the man could walk away forever if he wished! She might even have died giving birth - and he could be already with another young women getting her pregnant...
Last comment -> for all the philosophical back and forth on B4 - hows about we live our lives being as kind and helpful and loving as possible to people in our daily lives?
Hows about men here stop asking us to explain and justify but become new and improved people in your daily lives wherever you can?
Be good to yourselves so you will be peaceful at heart and be able to be good to others.
Stop being aggressive, stop watching porn - stop justifying a President who is de-funding planned parenthood and abortion - stop playing violent video games - go and do some volunteer work - go and be a role model to young children, your siblings, your girlfriends and wives, your mothers, your fathers...
Stop arguing here on B4 in an echo chamber of self congratulatory metaphysical intellectualism - go volunteer with war veterans, or their widows, or in cancer wards, or take a meal to an impoverished neighbour - go plant flowers and vegetables, live in daily peace and kindness - spread love
be kind
heal yourselves
share daily practical kindness and harmony
be a new human