03-10-2017, 04:29 PM
(03-10-2017, 07:49 AM)SMC Wrote: SMC, won't you provide to us your feelings and opinions on these things? I have already - I don't wish to anymore. It's exhausting.
Your input is greatly desired by me, (well that's all about you - so - get that need of yours met by doing the work to learn without expecting a woman to educate a man about how patriarchy abuses women.
as I also hope Jade will return to this thread and overlook the perceived bigotry ("perceived" ? the bigotry is actual bigotry)
here to try and help teach us how to better see the female as equal to male and vice versa, as I hope of you too.
again - time for you to do the learning yourself. I've given you resources.
I know this thread is inundated with insensitivity, and I realize how hurtful it is be subjected to such things...But between you and Jade, and anyone else who desires equality, and wishes to speak for equality and to teach equality, I pray you will all not hold your tongue.
I don't think we're 'holding our tongue" - I think we've had enough
As it goes...
Pray tell, women of b4, do not suppress yourselves in fear. Good lord! - again - this is not happening - the women feeling fear will have never said a single word on these forums
I will stand with you even if we disagree, because you are as much free, welcome, and respected, as I'd hope anyone would feel towards myself. We are all the creator here, I desperately want to learn from another directly how I can be of service to the manifestation of equality between the sexes. I do not believe I can manage this without the very important and desired input any of you have to offer.
This is not true - and the appeal to our emotions is patently emotionally manipulative.
Tell us dudes how wrong we are, explain it to us, help us uncover our eyes and see! we did that already
We all came to this thread hoping to discuss feminism (debatable) and the most prominent energy about it is equality between women and men.
Please, share with us. We are reaching out to you now, you are - (there is no "we") as the male principle is said to do. Please come back. We will do better, or at the very least. I will do better.
------------------
C_A that you still feel it's appropriate to continue asking for selfless efforts from those so harshly spoken of - in itself says a great deal about how men expect women to always reconcile, arbitrate, mediate, inform, persuade, reason with, placate, educate, their oppressors.
I recognise the sincere good will in your wish for further learning; but after the sickening posts by some to this thread it's insensitive to ask those (effectively) verbally attacked - to continue to give time and energy to this thread - especially given the strong likelihood that we'd have to read further abusive ideas.
It was International Women's Day yesterday - yet not a thread was written here on B4 to acknowledge and to celebrate.
I waited and I watched (and there were dozens of ideas and facts, and initiatives and issues I could have posted about) - but I am so done with the insular and toxic 'echo chamber' that is the forum of B4.
I didn't think it would make any difference - and I just don't need the negativity.
I live as a woman on this planet - so - please do the work in educating yourself C_A
There are organisations/individuals that will help you.
I've lived through 5 decades of misogyny and sexist abuse - I have no energy to keep arguing that it exists and ruins lives
- let alone that I've been so exhausted and dismayed to find it it here on Bring4th - where (years ago) I first came - seeking sanctuary.
SMC
I have studied this on and off since 2011... I have an idea...What I don't have is personal input, I don't talk much to women face to face about these things, or anyone in person anymore...
If that which you have given is truly what you wish to leave, so be it. I just think here, in this 'sanctuary' there is more probability to make a man understand better than elsewhere.
All of your posts have been very sharp and critical of men, you posted a blog link that says things like portraying a woman artistically is objectifying.
I say perceived bigotry to be kind to both the men and women here as both perceive bigotry. I won't call anyone bigots by saying their post was of bigotry.
I'm sure e_s would have something to say on this...
I think its bigoted to call people bigots just like its hateful to call something hateful.
Us and our labels that drive us so...
And what if men have had enough of this too? You find it exhausting to express these things, and you seem to believe you only have room to teach.
I think you could learn something about men by teaching us how YOU, the UNIQUE YOU, wants to be treated, not all women, just you. You're important too, your feelings matter too. I know that feeling of coming to b4 expecting Ra tier love and opinions, only to be met with things I didn't expect. Only in my case, it was simple bluntness that turned me off. For you its ignorant men it seems.
Why do you feel fear, when we are trying to be better so you won't feel such ways?
SMC, do you believe men and women are equal? From the sound of things I feel like you need to know. On here, when we ask you something, you don't need feel obliged, but you seem to feel insulted by our very ignorance.
Could you consider that you mistreat men too as you perceive us to mistreat you?
That when we ask you in love and you scoff at us with critical criticism of us, how do you think that makes us feel? Or me? I want to be helpful and you tell me to pretty much go google it instead.
I have googled it. How am I supposed to understand something if all I have to understand is general biases? You have a key to my understanding and you withhold it. I can't walk through the door of understanding the pain of how you are abused if you won't unlock it for me.
Just tell me how you want to be treated personally, I can't google that of anyone personally. Do you view my want to understand as an insult? Why?
You call me your oppressor. That's cruel. You base every man off of my actions. That's messed up.
You use my naive motions of wanting to better know as a method of degrading everyone women too with such beliefs like the bolded line of reasoning ending in oppressors.
You are very strong about such, but how flexible are you really? You want to be rigid and tell us all that we are the problem as men, as oppressors.
How am I supposed to say that this is ironic?
Men are oppressors, women are manipulators, and what did that do, labeling each demographic as such?
How would you feel if I said I felt your response was bigoted towards men, and I just stopped responding completely? I want to, I don't like being made to feel humiliated, bigoted, abusive, and shamed for just being myself and called an oppressor when I'm trying to understand how to just be a better man towards women. But here's the thing.
I see why you speak so and feel so, and I forgive you for calling me such things and for being so sharp towards me. I forgive you for the perceived bigotry I feel from you that I have.
And I apologize for putting you through such an emotional trauma, I won't ask anything of you again.
Just know you will learn to better respect men as you teach men how to respect women.
I think your views of b4 are interesting, why don't you take motions and action to change this? I'll help you, I'll stand by you and support your motions towards a more educated b4 community.
Why don't you make a thread, and sift through the echoes to the heart of the matter? You won't be alone in your efforts.
Further what can we do to help you, and you should ponder the same towards this community. Everyone here should.
We pride ourselves on feeling informed and higher, of being forgiving and loving. We all need to flex our forgiveness muscles here much more. We can't all always be openhearted but we can help each other to be so and more, is that not why we're here in some deeper sense?
Similarly we all need to flex our openmindedness and be more considerate, especially myself.
I am not arguing that misogyny and sexist abuse don't exist, I'm arguing that you seem to be very tormented in this area and I want you to continue interacting here so that we can help you process that pain and find forgiveness of misogyny and sexism and abuse, so that when you fight it, others don't feel the very energies you're fighting against coming from you.
SMC don't respond if you don't want to, just know I love you for who you are and I hope you can one day find your sanctuary, I deeply do.
In the mean time, I just wish we could agree on something and be friends