03-06-2017, 02:23 PM
(03-06-2017, 01:08 PM)Coordinate_Apotheosis Wrote: Jade, I think everyone here has misunderstood e_s, or perhaps I am just a fool for being a friend with someone with views like his.
You can infer me to be sexist and you can be mad at me for how I am, but no matter what Jade, I respect you for you, and although right now you might not see this, I want to try and show you by first saying. I agree with you, I do not know as deeply as you, but I do have an idea and I want b4 to be available to all people, men and women. That means we all have to be able to share our bias and opinions. I do want more moderation, I just am surprised to see how it is done so quietly but that is the teams discretion. I'm going to repost e_s's post 'for the record' so we can all see what this 3 page argument was over, I'll remove all but one blog link so we can have an idea.
I do believe that blog was very insensitive bit it made some valid points on the societal and psychological aspects to the problem of inequality, the messed up part is that blog speaks of women equality through a very arrogant and sure-of-himself tone that makes everything said sound really really bad.
I've found a few similar pages on the blog SMC posted but I don't see direct assaults.
Jade, if it helps, I won't speak regards my admiration for all things female. I will mend such issues if it means I can make headway with you. Yes my porn streak is not broken but I no longer watch porn 5+ times a day, its down to once or twice every few days apart, I think that's progress without outright denying aspects of myself.
What you are so caught up on as hate speech, you are asking me to say my friend spoke in hatred. I don't think he did in a malevolent way with intent to hurt anyone
I think his post was a sign for help and we were unable to do so.
How would you be of service to e_s if he did as I and asked for help?
I don't view calling someone homophobic hate speech, I don't think sharing strong opinions in word form is hate speech. I think hate speech is spoken with direct assault on an entire demographic. E_s was expressing his distortions, not trying to be assaulting with them.
I don't know what a faux pas is and patterns are always coming and going. Help us men, ladies.
When we share something insulting or derogatory and don't seem to even be aware of it, PLEASE, point kt calmly out to us. We are literally unconscious, unaware, clueless. We need your help, we need your communication. If we've problems please help us.
I wouldn't call.your example neutral, I'd call it ill-informed. It doesn't come off as scathing as much as it sounds unaware of the depth of the demographic being spoken of. Ripe words to show someone needs help.
Please don't yell at us, once aware do you not think we share the shame we push upon women in these ways?
I think my dodging is attempts to avoid escalating conflict, swerving Instead for the route of peace. I have my opinions but I have been around sexist men long enough to understand a woman's frustration with such a man, maybe not directly but I have seen how disgustingly bad a man can treat women. I want to help women deal with this, I want to help men not be like this. This thread is discussing feminine equality so I speak there, do know I think sexism against men is prevalent too. One sex is not so different from the other to have nothing in common in culture, psyche, and society.
If this thread were about the hurtful ways women treat men I could speak extensively on that topic too but its not, so why is everything I'm saying so upsetting?
Is it that I nullify you by speaking of admiration for you? Is it that I seem to be dodgy about certain roads of discussion?
Am I just pissing you off by not agreeing with you?
Maybe you view me to be emotionally manipulative.
Whatever it is, I'm here to help and to understand. I don't think reading opinions on blogs and websites will give me quite the depth I desire to know to be able to empathize with the plight women have to deal with. I'm sorry if this is viewed as others have labeled it. I'm personally trying to use catalyst to acquire wisdom and love to better be of aid in these areas.
IF you want to make this personally about me, you can, just know it looks really bad to me to use personal things I've shared in faith with this community to attack or nulify me when I'm trying to better understand something to help other (men) Not be the ways that help perpetuate sexual inequality.
Jade, you're always welcome here. You're yelling at me and I still stand here with open arms and ears. I want you to feel welcome here.
Just because I don't think or believe in certain ways should not mean you're unwelcome here.
I personally see a good number of female posters here in comparison to male posters compared to many other forums. I want all of us to feel welcome as best we can manage.
I'd like us to examine how we could help someome with opinions such as e_s's by reposting his post with some redactions, and then I'd like to discuss how we can aim a person with such things in mind to a more healthy view of women as equal. The post contains strong views so I ask you to sit with the emotions it evokes, and to find forgiveness. No one needs to be a fighter here, lets all try to keep our compass pointed towards forgiveness.
Some additionals to help with this, e_s's first language is not English, and he lives in or near India I believe. These filters called language and culture should be considered on an online forum during discussions like this.
Further, again, I think we should all read this with a mindset of forgiveness and a desire to learn how to help such opinions to become better and more equally informed.
earth_spirit Wrote:[font=arial, sans-serif]RE: The consequence of turning femanine equality into an ideology
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(Yesterday, 07:37 PM)Nicholas Wrote: Wrote:My critique of the feminist movement, in general, is that it is failing to teach males about their intrinsic femininity.
...
Again, my main critique of feminism in general is that they are failing to teach males how to act. And they can only do that by talking to males, rather than grouping them all up as patriarchal oppressors.
Sorry, but I am compelled to say you could not make a more obnoxious claim if you tried.
It is up to men to know themselves, not rely on women to teach them who they allegedly are.
Teach males how to act... as if men are mere Toddlers who depend on the matriarchy to break their minds. This is already what has been happening for god knows how many generations.
If you want to know where the abuse starts; trace it back to the source. It is unbelievable how many are missing the fact that mothers (aka women) have first access to the minds of Humanity. Women raise boys to become emotionally fragile providers who crave validation from their female peers. They raise girls to become narcissistic, entitled airheads. Fearing competition, they indoctrinate girls (and consequently boys) into becoming ashamed of their own naked flesh.
Women do this because they are too lazy to work and provide legitimate value. Despite being physically weaker, there are nevertheless many ways they can make contributions to society. Instead they take the path of least resistance by emotionally crippling children to make themselves irreplaceable as the exclusive/primary caregiver.
Notwithstanding female imposed confusion, men do not have a motive to hate/oppress women. They are at worst indifferent to female success. They just don't care:
Quote: Wrote:Haters gonna hate. Disappointingly, she finds that most of the negative comments come from women. "They're trying to shame me," Oxford says, "and it's all from women. Men don't care. A lot of women are like: Oh she's not fat, oh she's cute, she's funny, I hate her."
“If girls think you're attractive, you're either stupid or a whore or a dumb whore. They want to see you fall. They want to see you break. That’s every hater's dream."
- Megan Fox
Mothers inflict pain to sell pain relief. Women are their own oppressors. Men are the face of their abuse as clueless boys are indoctrinated into becoming women's macho proxies.
This man explains it better than I ever could.
http://religionconfidencetrick.blogspot.com.tr/2013/11/men-dont-give-birth.html
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On anohter note, I consider both "masculinity" or "femininity" to be at best culturally ephemeral, ambiguous nonsense. Far as I am concerned, the only legitimate usage of masculine or feminine is anatomical. When people use those terms in a subjective and abstract context, they implicitly expect everyone to have a telekinetic link to their brain stem so as to grasp exactly what they mean.
Raw Materials for a Theory of the Young-Girl (Tiqqun) Wrote: Wrote:As substantial identities, "manliness" and "femininity" are no more than convenient tools in the spectacular management of social relations. They are the fetishes necessary for the circulation and consumption of other fetishes.
I don't see hate speech here, I see a very strong bias. What kind of freaks me out is how i recognize these examples like inflicting pain to sell pain relief. That sums up my mother quite well among other examples. Some women do do the things said here. Its like I have to live with men objectifying women, you should recognize that you have to live with women who actually do do these things. Its very ugly and I see why its considered derogatory towards women, but it doesn't change the fact that there is some truth to those views... That women can be just as damaging to men as men can be to women.
So far in this thread we have seen many labels tacked onto each sex by the opposite sex. We seekers are also human, not one of us is better than the rest even if we hold ourselves to 'higher' standards.
Ladies, there are men with such views. You will need to deal with us one day to achieve equality, other men will need to deal with such men in the same way. This all applies in reverse too. There are women who do as e_s said, and one day we'll have to deal with it all too.
Man and woman have much to work on together...Let's attempt to keep this road of teaching each other how to better treat one another equally, a calm one.
Or kill me, either way I'm not giving up on a peaceful way of discussing this extremely relevant issue.
Finally, I am trying to be honest and open without being outright destructive to my own privacy that I reserve myself. If you think I'm holding back or being tricky, please say so and I'll attempt to be more transparent and concise.
I'll also be asking for your honest and hopefully calm input as I begin discussing later today in this thread, some of the things I see others saying as being insulting, but I don't want to approach them as if they were, and instead would like to explain to them why, how, and if we can't come to a different conclusion on some hurtful comments.
I'll be doing the same for e_s's post to try and be an example as a man, of how men can help other men.
ESPECIALLY IN REGARD TO: Male AND Female rights. Not just one side but both.
...wish me luck.
(A snow cone sounds lovely right about now v-v)
well, not sure about the definition of hate speech.
But now Reading e_e's original post, i have to say it's some of the worst stuff i've come across in a while.
i Never would have expected something like this on this forum.
to me it indicates very Deep emotional wounds with not the slightest bit of awareness about it.
and i perfectly understand why people, especially women, feel really attacked by this.