03-05-2017, 12:39 PM
(03-05-2017, 10:59 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Okay, let me attempt to clarify. I'm not against people finding other people attractive, or complimenting them, or even receiving compliments. The reason my own boundary was crossed was because we are talking about sexism, and someone tried to placate me by telling me how much they appreciate the "female form". Now, "appreciating the female form" is a colloquialism that has a specific meaning, usually referring to finding the physical form of women attractive. This isn't the first time any of us have heard it. The fact that he mentioned this after referencing his porn addiction solidifies that he meant this in a sexual way. In the context of this conversation, it really highlighted how much this is a problem - reducing a woman's value to her sexuality/appearance.
Jade, I honestly think you are surmising this out of an expectation, which no one could blame you for. But it is not a fact. It may be likely, but not necessarily true. You simply can't know from words on a page what another person's intent was, especially when there may be emotional content built up.
(03-05-2017, 10:59 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: (For an obvious example, take a look at Hollywood - actresses "age out" but Patrick Stewart is still a sex symbol) Saying things like this also continues to emphasize gender roles.
I agree with this in a big way. Hollywood is poison regarding this issue. It's ONE of the reasons I say to unplug from the media. Even when one is unplugged and aligned with higher concepts than "you have to be 20 and perfect (whatever that is at the moment, eg. boy body with breast implants, nose job, chalk-white teeth, etc.)" it's still an insidious cultural pressure.
(03-05-2017, 10:59 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I think anyone who is struggling with empathizing with this concept should consider what it means to court the maiden - to understand that the typical "default state" of the maiden is in her prostituted form - the exploited - and to the virginal maiden who desires a different approach, anything that smells of exploitation is repulsive. Sure, appreciate the female form all you want - but I can tell you there aren't many women who would be flattered to hear such a thing from someone who basically in the same breathe admits to feelings of misogyny.
It's unfortunate that the comment came in the context of this conversation, which may have made it easily misunderstood. A couple of thoughts:
1. As an artist myself, I understand appreciation of the female form very much. The reason you don't see as many male nudes is not because painted nudes are seen as sexual in nature (for the most part; I couldn't be absolute on this); it's because the female form with its curves and shape is much more interesting and delightful to paint/draw (ask any artist). Perhaps some may think sexual thoughts when they see a painted nude, but you can't blame a person for the amount of testosterone in their system.
2. Because of all the misogyny and sexism still in place in human society, even innocent and sincere comments are suspect.
However, this discussion is important, and the triggers are a vital element in exposing the underbelly of this conflict, based on human history, culminating now, at this time of great change. I would only suggest that we back off blame, and maybe reference comments without pointing the finger. Unfortunately, honesty with self is a huge challenge with humans, as far as I can tell. But bringing this subject out into the open here, in itself, has value.