06-18-2016, 03:26 PM
(This post was last modified: 06-18-2016, 03:33 PM by Bring4th_Austin.)
Some of my thoughts independent of the discussion up to this point:
In sessions 51 and 52, Don and Ra have a discussion about the different methods of travel around the universe, the two primary means being by "thought" or using technology, what Ra calls a "slingshot" effect. In that discussion, Don asks which method the Orion group uses, Ra says:
"The fourth-density negative uses the slingshot gravitic light effect, perhaps 80% of its membership being unable to master the disciplines necessary for alternate methods of travel. In fifth-density negative approximately 50% at some point gain the necessary discipline to use thought to accomplish travel. As the sixth density approaches, the negative orientation is thrown into confusion and little travel is attempted. What travel is done is perhaps 73% of light/thought."52.5
I'm not sure exactly how this technology would correlate to what we would understand as physical vehicles that could crash, but it does seem that they do use physical technology. The whole discussion is quite interesting as Don manages to connect the two types of travel to spiritual evolution.
I think it depends on what you mean by "dimension." Ra seems to sometimes use the terms dimension and density interchangeably. But physicists use the term dimension to mean physical dimensions (in 3 dimensions, there is an x, y, z spatial axis, in the 4th there is another, so on and so on). I'm not sure if there is any correlation between this type of dimension and higher densities, but it doesn't make much sense to my mind to have ever increasing spatial axes as we go up in density. But you could say that densities are, in a sense, their own dimensions.
For the second question, this is mostly peculation. Ra seems to describe higher densities having their own set of parameters, from our perspective, completely unique and independent space/time aspects. Starting in 4th density, the disciplines of the personality are beginning to be developed enough to understand how to distinguish between these different planes of experience and also understand the necessity to "hide" for the sake developing 3rd density entities.
Each density being a striving towards the higher, the lessons seem to be to begin to grasp the heart of the next density. Then in the next density, that understanding is refined and the next density is then grasped for. So you could say that each density might have two types of lessons, those which it grasped in the previous density and now refine and those which it must now grasp for moving to the next density. The following would be those things they must begin to grasp:
First: "growth rather than dissolution or random change." 13.17
Second: "self-consciousness or self-awareness." 13.21
Third: "the ways of love." 82.15
Fourth: wisdom, light or "to understand the actions, the movements, and the dance. ... It is a measure of efficiency of perception. It may be measured by light." 47.6
Fifth: unity or to "consciously accept the honor/duty of the Law of One." 16.41
Sixth: To balance the previous two densities' lessons or "to unify wisdom and compassion." 59.3
Seventh: Timelessness, or to see that "there exists only the present" and "awareness of the Creator. In the Creator is all that there is." 16.22 & 23.
It should be noted that Ra said, "To speak of that which sixth-density social memory complexes labor within in order to advance is at best misprision of plain communication for much is lost in transmission of concept from density to density, and the discussion of sixth density is inevitably distorted greatly." So all of that is probably a very poor explanation of what each density entails.
Seems like it.
"However, it is well to perceive that the eighth density functions also as the beginning density or first density, in its latter stages, of the next octave of densities." 28.15
In 27.13, Ra likens the process to a heartbeat, which I see as a cyclical process. In the final experience of our octave, it's likely we return to the Creator, where the concept of "next" or "previous" or even "cycle" hold no sway as it is a timeless state. From our perspective in third density, where we perceive time, we are moving through octaves to the next. We probably cannot even fathom the experience or understanding upon the final merging with the Creator.
"In sixth density, the density of unity, the positive and negative paths must needs take in each other for all now must be seen as love/light and light/love. This is not difficult for the positive polarity, which sends love and light to all other-selves. It is difficult enough for service-to-self polarized entities that at some point the negative polarity is abandoned." 78.25
In a sense, both polarities are abandoned. I don't fully understand this. But it is much easier for the positive polarity to go through this process as their path has already, up to this point, involved the type of grasping for unity that we are confronted with in sixth density, a confrontation which throws off the negative polarity and stops them in their path.
It depends on what you mean by "harm." In my understanding, a negatively oriented entity would not necessarily harm others simply for the sake of it (though if they find enjoyment in it, they wouldn't have qualms with it). However, the discipline of self-service polarization would require an attitude which attempts to find a way for all of creation to be brought under its service through control in some way. Other entities are simply another aspect of creation which much be approached with the attitude that if it is there, there must be some way for it to serve the negative entity. A positive entity might attempt understand the lessons to be learned through catalyst with other-self and attempt to accept that which is experienced, hoping to serve the other and allow both entities their sovereignty of their path. A negative entity would be only concerned about what may be gained from the other-self without consideration of serving it.
At the point where this attitude becomes harvestable, it's likely that this involves control in many different ways. It may not be violent as we understand it. There may not be physical harm. It may even seem to be a happy situation. But there is an attempt at control rather than acceptance, concern for the self rather than both selves. And I would say that in many situations, this would probably be harmful to the entity being controlled in some way. But there are situations where explicit harm may not be happen, such as in establishing a hierarchical elite-based organization where all are aware and compliant with the hierarchy.
I would say that they are attempting to help in the spiritual evolution of those who call for service-to-self information.
Questioner: Then we have crusaders from Orion coming to this planet for mind control purposes. How do they do this?
Ra: As all, they follow the Law of One observing free will. Contact is made with those who call. Those then upon the planetary sphere act much as do you to disseminate the attitudes and philosophy of their particular understanding of the Law of One which is service to self. These become the elite. Through these, the attempt begins to create a condition whereby the remainder of the planetary entities are enslaved by their own free will.8.14
Those who wish to pursue the service-to-self path would likely become the "elite," who probably would still be under the control of the higher entities. But then their attitude towards those who are not seeking service to self is different, seeking "enslavement," causing them to serve the elite in some way without really evolving upon their own spiritual path.
There is also the case of Orion attempting to detune and interrupt channels offering positive information. Jim recently said in a discussion on the podcast something that I had not considered: that this is because those who successfuly find their path in service to others will mean less entities to enslave. The entities on the positive path may become aware of their process of evolution and more self-aware of the ways in which they may be enslaved.
But the key here is your word "intentionally." It's highly unlikely that the Orion group has the desire that others not on their path develop spiritually. But their actions can be a great catalyst for such evolution. What they do could be seen as help in a roundabout way.
I don't know if it is relevant, but Ra does say that "The seeming contradictions of determinism and free will melt when it is accepted that there is such a thing as true simultaneity." (70.11)
Peaking at your understanding of scientific determinism, I would say that yes, it is at-odds with Ra's teachings. The type of determinism you describe relies on the idea that the mind is a complete result of the physical mechanics of the brain. This is not what Ra describes, and there are aspects of our mind that are beyond the physical aspects. Certainly our physical bodies and reality have effects on our behavior and attitudes, but individuals certainly have free will independent of the mechanical cause and effect described by this type of determinism, according to Ra.
The idea that free will is more primal than physical mechanics is something at least somewhat considered in the scientific community though: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/do-s...-free-will
The idea of a "personality" is probably a muddy one, but it's likely somewhat of a mix between the two. Ra says:
"In your terms there is a great loss of mind complex due to the fact that much of the activity of a mental nature of which you are aware during the experience of this space/time continuum is as much of a surface illusion as is the chemical body complex.
In other terms nothing whatever of importance is lost; the character or, shall we say, pure distillation of emotions and biases or distortions and wisdoms, if you will, becoming obvious for the first time, shall we say; these pure emotions and wisdoms and bias/distortions being, for the most part, either ignored or underestimated during physical life experience." 30.4
So a lot of our experience of our "selves" seems to be an illusion, but the "heart" or "essence" of ourselves, the distillations and biases, remain. It's probably just the surface aspects which fall away. So it depends on what someone considers a "personality," and how much of these more transient aspects are considered significant to the personality.
Whether an entity would be extremely positively oriented or extremely negatively oriented, I think these would be a result of previous bias. The pre-incarnative planning may involve programming certain catalyst, events, or circumstances to attempt to move that bias in one direction or another, but it will be the biases brought into the incarnation that hold sway over how the entity may respond to that. It's like a sort of momentum.
But it's a momentum that can be overturned by free will at any time. Ra described wanderers who incarnated on Venus while they were in third density who ended up polarizing negatively despite their plans going into the incarnation. I speculate that their spiritual power was a large bias they carried into the incarnation, but thanks to the free will in response to the circumstances they were in, the spiritual power ended up getting pointed in the other direction. I don't know how often this happens.
Typically, if an entity has chosen the positive or negative path, the life circumstances will attempt to refine that path. This may sometimes involve programming seeming "negative" biases for positive lessons. For instance, a person may program a tendency towards self-anger in order to utilize this catalyst and balance it to self-compassion, thus offering that distilled bias to the overall soul.
"Each entity will receive the opportunity that each needs. This information source-beingness does not have uses in the life-experience complex of each of those among your peoples who seek. Thus the advertisement is general and not designed to indicate the searching out of any particular material, but only to suggest the noumenal aspect of the illusion." 8.1
"We, ourselves, do not feel an urgency for this information to be widely disseminated. It is enough that we have made it available to three, four, or five. This is extremely ample reward, for if one of these obtains fourth-density understanding due to this catalyst then we shall have fulfilled the Law of One in the distortion of service.
We encourage a dispassionate attempt to share information without concern for numbers or quick growth among others. That you attempt to make this information available is, in your term, your service. The attempt, if it reaches one, reaches all." 17.2
"The audience brought about by Orion-type publicity [referring to UFO flaps] is not seeded by seniority of vibration to a great extent. The audiences receiving teach/learnings without stimulus from publicity will be more greatly oriented towards illumination. Therefore, forget you the counting." 48.5
I don't think attempting to convince people of its validity would necessarily be helpful, and may be detrimental, unless there are specific inquiries and someone is genuinely interested. Spreading awareness with as little convincing as possible would probably be helpful, increasing the chances that someone who would find the information useful would find it. But it's a tricky situation. How can one spread awareness without influence of perception? It's tough.
Quote:1. Are the Orion group's UFOs physical vehicles, like spacecraft, or thought-form "illusions" that aren't physical? As in, could an Orion group UFO crash and have its physical parts scattered about?
In sessions 51 and 52, Don and Ra have a discussion about the different methods of travel around the universe, the two primary means being by "thought" or using technology, what Ra calls a "slingshot" effect. In that discussion, Don asks which method the Orion group uses, Ra says:
"The fourth-density negative uses the slingshot gravitic light effect, perhaps 80% of its membership being unable to master the disciplines necessary for alternate methods of travel. In fifth-density negative approximately 50% at some point gain the necessary discipline to use thought to accomplish travel. As the sixth density approaches, the negative orientation is thrown into confusion and little travel is attempted. What travel is done is perhaps 73% of light/thought."52.5
I'm not sure exactly how this technology would correlate to what we would understand as physical vehicles that could crash, but it does seem that they do use physical technology. The whole discussion is quite interesting as Don manages to connect the two types of travel to spiritual evolution.
Quote:2. Do higher-density beings exist within higher dimensions? This also goes along with the question of: what is the reason behind higher-density beings being able to hide themselves or make themselves visible to us 3rd-density beings? (Could you explain that a bit?)
I think it depends on what you mean by "dimension." Ra seems to sometimes use the terms dimension and density interchangeably. But physicists use the term dimension to mean physical dimensions (in 3 dimensions, there is an x, y, z spatial axis, in the 4th there is another, so on and so on). I'm not sure if there is any correlation between this type of dimension and higher densities, but it doesn't make much sense to my mind to have ever increasing spatial axes as we go up in density. But you could say that densities are, in a sense, their own dimensions.
For the second question, this is mostly peculation. Ra seems to describe higher densities having their own set of parameters, from our perspective, completely unique and independent space/time aspects. Starting in 4th density, the disciplines of the personality are beginning to be developed enough to understand how to distinguish between these different planes of experience and also understand the necessity to "hide" for the sake developing 3rd density entities.
Quote:3. What are the specific goals/lessons to be learned of each individual density?
Each density being a striving towards the higher, the lessons seem to be to begin to grasp the heart of the next density. Then in the next density, that understanding is refined and the next density is then grasped for. So you could say that each density might have two types of lessons, those which it grasped in the previous density and now refine and those which it must now grasp for moving to the next density. The following would be those things they must begin to grasp:
First: "growth rather than dissolution or random change." 13.17
Second: "self-consciousness or self-awareness." 13.21
Third: "the ways of love." 82.15
Fourth: wisdom, light or "to understand the actions, the movements, and the dance. ... It is a measure of efficiency of perception. It may be measured by light." 47.6
Fifth: unity or to "consciously accept the honor/duty of the Law of One." 16.41
Sixth: To balance the previous two densities' lessons or "to unify wisdom and compassion." 59.3
Seventh: Timelessness, or to see that "there exists only the present" and "awareness of the Creator. In the Creator is all that there is." 16.22 & 23.
It should be noted that Ra said, "To speak of that which sixth-density social memory complexes labor within in order to advance is at best misprision of plain communication for much is lost in transmission of concept from density to density, and the discussion of sixth density is inevitably distorted greatly." So all of that is probably a very poor explanation of what each density entails.
Quote:4. Ra mentions that there are 1-8 densities and that these make up an "octave" of densities. Does this mean there are higher "octaves" of densities with even further spiritual growth? I thought I read that in the 8th density you reunite/become the creator, so is this incorrect or does this mean each "octave" of densities is like a cycle of breaking down into many-ness from the initial creator then coming back together as the creator and/or becoming the creator. Does this mean that the creator multiplies or just repeats the cycle endlessly?
Seems like it.
"However, it is well to perceive that the eighth density functions also as the beginning density or first density, in its latter stages, of the next octave of densities." 28.15
In 27.13, Ra likens the process to a heartbeat, which I see as a cyclical process. In the final experience of our octave, it's likely we return to the Creator, where the concept of "next" or "previous" or even "cycle" hold no sway as it is a timeless state. From our perspective in third density, where we perceive time, we are moving through octaves to the next. We probably cannot even fathom the experience or understanding upon the final merging with the Creator.
Quote:5. At what density is it impossible to proceed as a service-to-self entity? Or is it possible to fully procede down the path towards intelligent infinity as either service-to-self or service-to-others?
"In sixth density, the density of unity, the positive and negative paths must needs take in each other for all now must be seen as love/light and light/love. This is not difficult for the positive polarity, which sends love and light to all other-selves. It is difficult enough for service-to-self polarized entities that at some point the negative polarity is abandoned." 78.25
In a sense, both polarities are abandoned. I don't fully understand this. But it is much easier for the positive polarity to go through this process as their path has already, up to this point, involved the type of grasping for unity that we are confronted with in sixth density, a confrontation which throws off the negative polarity and stops them in their path.
Quote:6. Does service-to-self require intentionally harming other people to please yourself, or does it just require not helping other people? For example: I'm the kind of person that is selfish in the sense that I focus on my wants/needs above others, but I don't intentionally harm other people and I wouldn't harm others to satisfy myself. I just wouldn't help others if it doesn't satisfy me. Would that make me service-to-self oriented? Or more neutrally-oriented which ultimate doesn't help our collective spiritual progress?
It depends on what you mean by "harm." In my understanding, a negatively oriented entity would not necessarily harm others simply for the sake of it (though if they find enjoyment in it, they wouldn't have qualms with it). However, the discipline of self-service polarization would require an attitude which attempts to find a way for all of creation to be brought under its service through control in some way. Other entities are simply another aspect of creation which much be approached with the attitude that if it is there, there must be some way for it to serve the negative entity. A positive entity might attempt understand the lessons to be learned through catalyst with other-self and attempt to accept that which is experienced, hoping to serve the other and allow both entities their sovereignty of their path. A negative entity would be only concerned about what may be gained from the other-self without consideration of serving it.
At the point where this attitude becomes harvestable, it's likely that this involves control in many different ways. It may not be violent as we understand it. There may not be physical harm. It may even seem to be a happy situation. But there is an attempt at control rather than acceptance, concern for the self rather than both selves. And I would say that in many situations, this would probably be harmful to the entity being controlled in some way. But there are situations where explicit harm may not be happen, such as in establishing a hierarchical elite-based organization where all are aware and compliant with the hierarchy.
Quote:7. Is the Orion group intentionally attempting to help us in our spiritual evolution (through reinforcing/encouraging negative polarization) or are they only attempting to help themselves? Whereas the Confederation is intentionally trying to help us, which ultimately helps their spiritual evolution also, correct?
I would say that they are attempting to help in the spiritual evolution of those who call for service-to-self information.
Questioner: Then we have crusaders from Orion coming to this planet for mind control purposes. How do they do this?
Ra: As all, they follow the Law of One observing free will. Contact is made with those who call. Those then upon the planetary sphere act much as do you to disseminate the attitudes and philosophy of their particular understanding of the Law of One which is service to self. These become the elite. Through these, the attempt begins to create a condition whereby the remainder of the planetary entities are enslaved by their own free will.8.14
Those who wish to pursue the service-to-self path would likely become the "elite," who probably would still be under the control of the higher entities. But then their attitude towards those who are not seeking service to self is different, seeking "enslavement," causing them to serve the elite in some way without really evolving upon their own spiritual path.
There is also the case of Orion attempting to detune and interrupt channels offering positive information. Jim recently said in a discussion on the podcast something that I had not considered: that this is because those who successfuly find their path in service to others will mean less entities to enslave. The entities on the positive path may become aware of their process of evolution and more self-aware of the ways in which they may be enslaved.
But the key here is your word "intentionally." It's highly unlikely that the Orion group has the desire that others not on their path develop spiritually. But their actions can be a great catalyst for such evolution. What they do could be seen as help in a roundabout way.
Quote:8. Does scientific determinism conflict with the Free Will found within the Law of One? Or is it that our souls/entities truly do have free will in higher densities/between incarnations but our human bodies/catalysts truly don't have free will? So it's just an illusion of free will during our human incarnations?
I don't know if it is relevant, but Ra does say that "The seeming contradictions of determinism and free will melt when it is accepted that there is such a thing as true simultaneity." (70.11)
Peaking at your understanding of scientific determinism, I would say that yes, it is at-odds with Ra's teachings. The type of determinism you describe relies on the idea that the mind is a complete result of the physical mechanics of the brain. This is not what Ra describes, and there are aspects of our mind that are beyond the physical aspects. Certainly our physical bodies and reality have effects on our behavior and attitudes, but individuals certainly have free will independent of the mechanical cause and effect described by this type of determinism, according to Ra.
The idea that free will is more primal than physical mechanics is something at least somewhat considered in the scientific community though: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/do-s...-free-will
Quote:9. Is the "soul" incarnated in a person reflected in the person's personality? Or, I mean, could a soul be incarnated into an extremely positively oriented human and then in the next incarnation be incarnated into an extremelt negatively oriented human? Or, is it the souls that are oriented as such and not the individual human personalities?
The idea of a "personality" is probably a muddy one, but it's likely somewhat of a mix between the two. Ra says:
"In your terms there is a great loss of mind complex due to the fact that much of the activity of a mental nature of which you are aware during the experience of this space/time continuum is as much of a surface illusion as is the chemical body complex.
In other terms nothing whatever of importance is lost; the character or, shall we say, pure distillation of emotions and biases or distortions and wisdoms, if you will, becoming obvious for the first time, shall we say; these pure emotions and wisdoms and bias/distortions being, for the most part, either ignored or underestimated during physical life experience." 30.4
So a lot of our experience of our "selves" seems to be an illusion, but the "heart" or "essence" of ourselves, the distillations and biases, remain. It's probably just the surface aspects which fall away. So it depends on what someone considers a "personality," and how much of these more transient aspects are considered significant to the personality.
Whether an entity would be extremely positively oriented or extremely negatively oriented, I think these would be a result of previous bias. The pre-incarnative planning may involve programming certain catalyst, events, or circumstances to attempt to move that bias in one direction or another, but it will be the biases brought into the incarnation that hold sway over how the entity may respond to that. It's like a sort of momentum.
But it's a momentum that can be overturned by free will at any time. Ra described wanderers who incarnated on Venus while they were in third density who ended up polarizing negatively despite their plans going into the incarnation. I speculate that their spiritual power was a large bias they carried into the incarnation, but thanks to the free will in response to the circumstances they were in, the spiritual power ended up getting pointed in the other direction. I don't know how often this happens.
Typically, if an entity has chosen the positive or negative path, the life circumstances will attempt to refine that path. This may sometimes involve programming seeming "negative" biases for positive lessons. For instance, a person may program a tendency towards self-anger in order to utilize this catalyst and balance it to self-compassion, thus offering that distilled bias to the overall soul.
Quote:10. Let's say I became a celebrity and had a platform to "preach" or encourage millions of people to read the Law of One, and/or tried to convince people of its validity through logic. Would that be counter-intuitive to the purpose of the Ra Material? Is it better to keep it out of the mainstream so that the people who are meant to find it, and want to find it, find it? And so those who aren't meant to find it don't misinterpret? I wouldn't be proving the Law of One as absolute verifiable truth in this position, just spreading awareness of its existence to the general public.
"Each entity will receive the opportunity that each needs. This information source-beingness does not have uses in the life-experience complex of each of those among your peoples who seek. Thus the advertisement is general and not designed to indicate the searching out of any particular material, but only to suggest the noumenal aspect of the illusion." 8.1
"We, ourselves, do not feel an urgency for this information to be widely disseminated. It is enough that we have made it available to three, four, or five. This is extremely ample reward, for if one of these obtains fourth-density understanding due to this catalyst then we shall have fulfilled the Law of One in the distortion of service.
We encourage a dispassionate attempt to share information without concern for numbers or quick growth among others. That you attempt to make this information available is, in your term, your service. The attempt, if it reaches one, reaches all." 17.2
"The audience brought about by Orion-type publicity [referring to UFO flaps] is not seeded by seniority of vibration to a great extent. The audiences receiving teach/learnings without stimulus from publicity will be more greatly oriented towards illumination. Therefore, forget you the counting." 48.5
I don't think attempting to convince people of its validity would necessarily be helpful, and may be detrimental, unless there are specific inquiries and someone is genuinely interested. Spreading awareness with as little convincing as possible would probably be helpful, increasing the chances that someone who would find the information useful would find it. But it's a tricky situation. How can one spread awareness without influence of perception? It's tough.
_____________________________
The only frontier that has ever existed is the self.
The only frontier that has ever existed is the self.
![[+]](https://www.bring4th.org/forums/images/collapse_collapsed.png)