2nd LOO Question: Creation

[unity100]

Do we enough so in detail so as to address them, other than imagine them in sweeping vagaries and generalities versus even far more broader generalities heaped upon these? Thus we are reduced to speculations at best, and in the dark no less. 3D is difficult enough to discuss. All other densities are beyond our grasp, given we have our hands more than enough full within our own 3rd Density in this lifetime.

we do know a lot about many things, because, things tie to each other. and patterns repeat everywhere. if one just takes time and thinks on the small details that are found in the texts, s/he can see that the tiny information pieces here and there, seemingly insignificant, are actually parts and consequences of a larger reality framework.

by combining the concepts in book iv, like mind, body, spirit, and significator, and significator becoming only an individual entity by declaration of the significator being a complex, and looking at the increasing fusion of entities starting from positive 4, and going to (probably) apex in the 8th, and then going back from 3, the quite 'individual' density back towards 1st, where individualization again fades away, we can realize and articulate a lot.

at least, we can recognize wide, general, repeating patterns.

there is also the non-path of negative, separation. it keeps increasing the amount of separation, individualization trend that comes up to 3rd density, takes it further on, but from early 6d, it cant go forward. that probably implies, full separation, full individualization, is not possible.

Although the generality of 1D of the previous Octave is 8D of the next, how in the world may you deduce from this that one Octave is even remotely similar to another? It may be.

the above block. this octave, builds on the last octave's culmination. in last octave, mover/moved polarity was discovered and refined. this octave uses that polarity, and investigates positive/negative.

this means, the earlier octave, cant be impossibly different from our octave, even if phenomenonally different. also, this :

http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.ph...7#pid20387

the concept of 'reality paths'.

Allow me to demonstrate a better logic from the Ra quotes if I may. If Ra dared not plumb the depths of the next Octave, how then might we plumb the depths of the previous? You assume by your logic that everything may be piecemealed and stacked together very nicely in a hierarchical structure stretching logic to such an extent that it fast becomes illogical.

this is not logic that you are proposing. that is mysticism, and dogma. first, there is no 'dare' in this, if you think about it, you ponder about it. its not a courage challenge. you discover as much as you ponder, and learn. second, ra actually did dare 'plumb' the depths of the next octave, they just plumbed the depths of earlier octave. in Ra text, there are a few mentions about the earlier octave and its traits, and the next octave. and about entities which 'bring light' from the next octave. and, how going from octave to octave of this creation happens. that means, they have teachers, who in turn have their teachers, and the knowledge/understanding is passed on as much as situation allows.

By your logic, Ra will graduate one fine day from mid 6D into 7D, this after some 2 billion more years from now, and then spend presumably many more billions+ years in 7D until finally graduating into 8D which is indeed as you state the equivalent of 1D of the next octave.

this part is not 'my logic' this is what we learn about octaves in Ra material. each octave is a heartbeat, and a creation. all merge towards the end of each octave, and then a new octave begins. ra's mention of their teachers back during their 3d experience 'having started their journey back to creator' and hence don's questioning about them being meaningless, implies a lot of things itself alone.

first, there is a concept of 'journey back to creator'. it doesnt happen in an instant, it is a journey that starts. since, from other mentions of 7d being a density that opens to infinity, and the entities leave all identity and individualization towards end of 7d, we can understand that these two mentions signify the same process ;

there is a process of unification back to undifferentiated (in our octave's terms at least) infinite intelligence that takes an infinite amount of time towards the end of 7d.

and yes, since their teachers took that journey, and Ra is now nearing 7d, ra will also go through the same processes, as what they tell us, teach us, and what we can understand from the other information, makes clear. and, in addition, so we all will do at one point.

The next Octave may be constituted of an entire different array of wonder having absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this wonder in any manner whatsoever. I imagine the same may be said even within an octave of 3D to simple 4D. How then may one assume one octave to another bears any similarity to eachother?

cannot. first, we know that infinite intelligence created all existence in a hierarchical, organized manner, as per the subject that is discussed that starts with don asking 'what is the first thing in creation' and on.

that means, not only in this octave, but also in other octaves, everywhere, progress is staged, hierarchical, and organized.

if we add to this, the fact that this octave's manifestation is the harvest of last octave's information, and not only that, but we also now find the mover/moved polarity present in almost everything, and in a seemingly balanced fashion unlike our current subject 'positive/negative', it means that we are manifesting this octave with the harvest and knowledge of what we learned from the last octave.

so will be the next, with the harvest of this. and so it will go on.

10 octaves earlier would probably be a lot more different than ours. 10 octaves later too. but, if an octave could be made a measurement of difference, we could easily say that, our octave and immediate octave before, and after, would probably be closest to each other in resemblance.

Creation must begin somewhere. Those creations may likewise end as gracefully. Perhaps it begins anew in each new Octave, rather than it necessarily perceived as an ever continuing continuum in a series of evolutions from one to the other? Were this supposition so, it would be an infinitely longer evolution stuck in the creation created simply by virtue of self imposed and rigid constraints simply for having created it, rather than as a more efficient one through the experiments by the Logoi as stated in the LOO by Ra that the Logoi experiment. It stands to reason that they do so in new Octaves. We mustn't with our finite minds constrain Infinity afterall?

creation doesnt need to begin anywhere. infinite creations already exist, as per infinity requirements. the part of infinity which exists, also has to be infinite inside itself. therefore, with the part of infinity that 'doesnt exist', it can constitute infinity.

what you call 'logoi' are just individualized (as much as it can be) portions of infinite intelligence, probably manifesting local existences according to their character/biases. they are not infinite intelligence, the manifestation that is 1 level below infinity. the latter part of your post is 'unintelligible to me'.

Again, the logic is superb in some ways. But just as before it requires a jump across an abyss to make it so. 1D and 2D are not self aware. 2D acts as herd mentality completely incapable of distinguishing itself apart from the herd or its other-selves, whereas 1D is simply in a state of is-ness comprised and devoid of even being aware of its other selves in 1D in any manner whatsoever, versus 4D and above becoming aware jointly of itself as themselves as cosmic consciousness in becoming. Awareness is the distinguishing factor here which is the entire point of spiritual evolution. You may be assuming coincidence is similarity, if not perhaps reading into things which may otherwise not be there. You further seem to suggest that we in 3D are least evolved of all densities given it is the density we are most individuated in, whereas 1D and 2D are more like 4D-7D? Once again the logic contradicts itself as to the hierarchy you argue for, otherwise I might as likely argue 3D is the most special of all for being individuated unlike all other densities. Viewing it through the lens of consciousness makes abundantly more sense as the hierarchy of increasing awareness than is to view it through the lens of individuation, being together in 1D, then coming apart in 2D and 3D, then together again in 4D - 8D, all as a result of the train that began the logic due to 1D being 8D in the next Octave.

there is no jump over the abyss. what is called 'self' is an individualization of coherent intelligent infinity, probably through use of something that is probably a longer discussion topic itself.

the 1d, 2d, all manifestations are also aware, and aware of their own selves, however, they do not manifest and act as an 'individual', they dont think of themselves as such. the same pattern starts from 4th density and on, as entities increasingly meld with each other again, to the point of 60 million entities in Ra referring to themselves as 'i am Ra' in total, instead of 'we are'. that means, the differences and invididuality of them each are being meld into a 'group consciousness' as you name it.

the most 'individualized' entity would probably be the early 6d entity, which has gone and tried the path of extreme separation, and hence individualization. which fails in the end, and the entity goes back to merge with the rest of infinite intelligence, from wherever it will.

consciousness is not related to individualization. advancedness is not related to individualization. hierarchy therefore, is not related to individualization.
8d's difference (of this octave) from 1d of this octave is, 8d spirit collectives vibrate in a much higher frequency than 1d spirits, and therefore, know of their own nature more. in that, there is a hierarchy. in that, a 3d vibration is higher in hierarchy of advancement than 1d vibration. however, there is no relevance to individualization in this hierarchy.

individualization is apparently something that is used to discover and experience possibilities, make the nature of the spirit (probably infinite intelligence, ie existence) come out in more detail and examine them. when any kind of particular focus is discovered enough by its focus holder, the focus is left behind towards end of 7d, all identity, 'individualization' is left behind, and the energy melds back into infinity.

By this logic, 3D entities lagging without graduation for the ump-teenth time in millions of years + of their sojourn, and who as a result of non-graduation are dispatched all about the galaxy to other suitable 3D planets due to not graduating to planets going 4D, is all as a result of bad planing on the part of the LOGOS (???) rather than inefficient utilization of experience of catalyst on the 3D entities part, which is the whole purpose for the plan of the Logos to begin with. Although Ra never utilized the term laggards, inefficient use of experience is tantamount to the same thing in terms of the speed at which some polarize and others do not choosing instead to sleep on.

first, remember book iv, and remember that the archetypes of mind are not always the same in each logos. each logos differentiates it.

if, archetypes of mind can be different from logos to logos (to the point of Ra being unable to function well in other galaxies as wanderers due to difference in archetypes), it means that 'utilization of experience of catalyst' will also be different from logos to logos, not only for 3d, but for all densities in the locale that utilizes that particular logos's archetype of mind.

refer to the graduates during light veil (ra for example), refer to the VERY few graduates, 1 planet destroyed (around 2 billion souls unable to complete 3d), 1 planet rendered unable to support 3d life (number of souls unknown), and 1 planet heavily damaged, and constantly on the brink of possible destruction as of now. and yet, even with all the effort spent by (curiously) wanderers who graduated at the time of light veil, still harvest is told to be going to be small, by Ra, from among 7 billion entities incarnated on this planet. not counting those who are not incarnated, and who have come and passed through this planet.

this, pretty much lays the blame on the archetypes employed by this logos, rather than 'inefficient use of catalyst' by 'lazy laggards'.

but that there are basic core principles which you either extrapolate into new directions, or simply interpret in other ways. I am open to exploring more of what you see as a means of exercising and stretching my own constraints, but would ask always for specific references, given we are hopefully engaging in the study of the LOO exclusively. We are, aren't we?

searching for threads started by me, you will find my replies to a lot of what you ask above. noone can keep reiterating and reposting pages long of posts, everytime someone who have joined the discussion at a later time, asks.

This would be so by your explanation for all densities...with the exception of 3D presumably?

all densities, and possible existences.

the 3d of this logos seems to have a lot of issues with energy flow from above and below getting hampered due to the extreme veiling it chose, apparently.

I stand corrected. 2D is by your interpretation also included as furthest removed from the evolved state of 1D as a result of it being closest to 8D, notwithstanding that 8D is in an entire different Octave which we know absolutely nothing of.

this is a wrong approach. existence is continuous, tied together. that is why the later parts of the 8d of last octave, we see in front of our eyes as of now. and how we can also on occasion, see, the early parts of the 1d of next octave, as 'light' or other manifestations, depending on psychic phenomenon/experience.

I get that 1D is 8D. But that oh so fine "discreet" distinction from one Octave to another on the scale of a Piano may be as non-discreet as from one Piano to another Piano, if not one instrument to another so as to make it "discreate", as in annihilating what we know, from one CREATION to another by virtue of crossing that oh-so-fine and discreet 7D to 8D which is 1D....in the NEXT Octave.

a creation is not annihilated during passage of octaves, you are forgetting the concept of time.

7d is a point at which the experience from multiple parallel existences of an individual (individual here being the mind/body/spirit complex totality) are merged into one totality, from all the individual parts/fragments of that totality that exist in different universes. it means, while the totality exists in 7d, a number of individual 3d entities also exist in various parallel universes, (inversely proportional to balance to the totality it seems, since Ra says the finer the balance, the need to experience parallel universes/existences lessens).

just like how a 6d higher self, is the future of a 3d individual, yet they exist at the same time, and 6d entity can aid and help its past 3d existence ...

this, implies that, this creation, octave, will still be here, in time, in infinity, in existence, when we all merge into one to pass to the next octave.

then, what is that passes from octave to octave ? focus points of consciousness , infinite intelligence ?

that is a larger topic in itself probably.

I believe I do. I believe I must. I believe I do not know. It seems there exists the progression of evolution of consciousness such that it infinitlely continues in ascension. If I was 1D and 2D, and now am 3D, or have wandered from 6D so that I may progress to 8D and infinite Octaves beyond that, I may wander back to become a Galactic Logos by this reckoning, or choose to ever ascend upwards instead by never being a Logos. It is interesting that you even asked in as much as it is you that proposes all is infinitely possible in infinity.

manifesting as logos may be a feature/stage of 8d, like an atom of early 1d.