Why I am not a vegan

[Monica]

How do you know what its perspective is?  For all you know it's perfectly content to withdraw into nonphysical and reincarnate in a frisky new body.  That's what some channelers have said.  An animal is devoid of social conditioning (for the most part).  I'd wager is has quite a different perspective than a yellow ray social human.  Appearances are often deceiving.

So frantically struggling to escape and wailing in pain mean nothing?

Most channelers, like most other people, eat meat. They have their own biases and are in denial just like other people, and it distorts their channeling.

Then why the need to supplement B12, which specifically comes from meat?

That question was answered at the beginning of this thread. B12 doesn't come from meat; it comes from the bacteria in meat. Humans can synthesize B12 just like animals can, if they eat dirty produce.

And you say the science says we don't need animal products?

That's right. The science is quite clear on that.

Because I'm pretty sure science says the exact opposite of that.  B12 analogs, like those in spirulina have never been proven to be effective in the human body.

Science says we need B12, Not that we need meat. As I said, B12 can be synthesized by the human gut, given some bacteria. Most people don't want to eat dirty produce, so they prefer to take a supplement. Also, there is a form of edible algae containing real B12, as an option.

The relevance was that just because conditions seem miserable to you, doesn't mean they are actually miserable to the occupants.  A percentage could be miserable, and a percentage could be quite content.  Those who want less, need less to be happy.  Again, appearances can be deceiving.

Apparently you have never watched any slaughterhouse videos. Please watch these and then tell me that ANY of those animals are content.

Bacon in 60 Seconds

Meet Your Meat

Earthlings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrhM_NUATl4
Humans have been using livestock almost since their inception.  If that is their ordinary behavior, then that behavior is quite natural.  You're drawing an arbitrary line in the sand between what you believe is natural and what you believe is artificial.
[/quote]

Humans hunted wild animals because they had to for survival. We no longer need to eat or use animals to survive. The modern meat/dairy industry artificially inseminates animals (literally rapes them), injects them with hormones, and crowds them into unnatural conditions, in huge, windowless warehouses where animals go their entire lives without ever seeing the sun or feeling grass beneath their feet.

That's what I mean by artificial.

Not to mention, we're presumably evolving. So just because the caveman did it, doesn't mean we should still do it.

I'm sorry, but this just doesn't cut it for me.  I don't put anyone on a pedestal either, but I have yet to see one well known channeler who has ever received the "it is more spiritual to not eat meat" edict from their spiritual guides.  You would think it would be a pretty easy message for their guides to convey at some point, especially considering all the other issues people are advised on.

Easy? On the contrary. It's probably the hardest message to get through of all!

Just look at how much resistance and defensiveness people show when their meat-eating is questioned. Look at all the meat threads on this forum and you'll see what I mean. Meat is a VERY touchy subject! Channels are human too. They are touchy and defensive about it too, just like other people. When a channel has such a strong bias, it creates a blind spot that their guides cannot get through. That is how the channeled message gets distorted.

They aren't yellow ray activated.  Not self aware to any significant extent (some are more so obviously, but usually not those used for consumption).  

No social conditioning.  Less of a veil than humans.  They don't even think the same way.  They don't dread the future, and regret the past, they live in the moment.  Not ego driven.

Of course, there are exceptions.  A pet will begin to take on more and more 3rd density characteristics.  Afterall, that's the whole point of incarnating in a body that will play that role with a human.

You are simply wrong, on all those counts. This isn't my opinion, but fact, proven by scientific studies (not to mention simple observation).

Pigs, cows, chickens, turkeys, and even rats - rats! have demonstrated not only self-awareness, but even empathy for others. Pigs solve puzzles faster than human toddlers, and are considered smarter than dogs by scientific research. Rats have saved other rats before eating or saving themselves. Cows have social groups and best friends, and have gone back to free other cows, after figuring out how to free themselves. Wild animals have saved other wild animals, even picked up human trash and put it in the trash can, not once but repeatedly. Be sure to click on the link about scientists proving that animals are self-aware and have a consciousness and rich emotions just like humans. There is a TON of clear, irrefutable evidence that animals are VERY self-aware!

Here, see for yourself:

Bring4th Studies > Strictly Law of One Material v > Ra's Statements About 2D Entities

This also includes what Ra says about 2D entities, which I think is kinda important, so I encourage you to read the whole thread before continuing this conversation (so I don't have to repeat myself...thanks). Be sure to read the linked threads in Post #1, which show the video of the bear saving the bird, the swans feeding the goldfish, the dog trying to save the fish, the bird picking up trash, and many more. More and more keep getting recorded...so many I can't even keep up with them. And, it links to some of the scientific studies as well, though there are many more buried in these meat threads.

So why do you personally think these animals incarnate in these bodies that will inevitably be slaughtered and used for food?  I recall Ra saying that the orange ray body may live without the inhabitation of the mind and spirit complexes, so why isn't that the case do you think?  Or is that the case with many animals?

I've speculated about this extensively in the older meat threads, and again in this thread, over the past few days. You might want to scroll through this thread and catch up.

...