(10-01-2015, 10:34 PM)anagogy Wrote: Interesting that out of ALL the points you constantly recycle in these vegi-vaur debates, this just happens to be the one you refuse to recycle. Perhaps, you know, because it is an argument you can't win?
No, not at all. No one can ever win an argument with a vegan. Not possible. Nothing to do with me personally; could be any vegan...this is just a general statement. There simply isn't any justification for knowingly, unnecessarily supporting suffering. All of the arguments are in favor of self: self's desire for taste, etc. You can philosophize all day long about why you think animals 'should' suffer, but there is never any justification for participating in that suffering.
To directly address your statement is beyond the scope of this discussion. If you want to start another thread about whether we can affect others, how much we influence them, whether suffering will always exist, and whether a certain % of beings choose to suffer just for the sake of suffering, and reducing suffering is all pointless because they'll all just reincarnate somewhere else anyway, then go for it.
The short answer is that I disagree with you. I think those are all attempts at justification for causing suffering, and don't have any substance whatsoever, especially in light of what we know about the holographic nature of the universe, and in light of how science and mathematics have shown that each of us is the Event Horizon.
No, I don't see them as separate entities who are going to choose suffering anyway. They are other-selves.
When you start your new thread, perhaps you might wish to explore what Oneness really means.
(10-01-2015, 10:34 PM)anagogy Wrote: I find it funny that people will profess to subscribe to the LoA/YCYOR concept right up until the point that there is a negative circumstance they might have to take responsibility for, or a negative implication they might have to accept, and then there is a whole bunch of excuses like "well it wasn't working then, obviously". People are oh so willing to take credit, and accept the positive circumstances, and implications, but never for the negative.
I have no idea what you're talking about, in regards to this discussion.
(10-01-2015, 10:34 PM)anagogy Wrote: You say that like it is some sort of retort to my point, but victims being in vibrational proximity to victimizers isn't exactly breaking news. That's a pretty basic implication and tenet of the law of attraction.
You said we didn't influence animals, or something to that effect, then said we can only influence those with whom we are in 'vibrational proximity.' Well if both of your statements are true, then you were proving my point, because obviously the victimizer is in 'vibrational proximity' to the victim, so obviously the victimizer affects the victim.
(10-01-2015, 10:34 PM)anagogy Wrote: See, you say that but don't seem to understand that your very attention to the subject is increasing the momentum of it
Not as much as the people eating meat.
(10-01-2015, 10:34 PM)anagogy Wrote: (.i.e. you are participating and supporting it by your mere attention to it). Anything you push against becomes stronger. You activate it in your vibrational field, and then focus on getting others involved, and all the while thinking you're beating this demon down, and the exact opposite is happening. It's a lot like the old aphorism: "hate of war won't bring peace, only love of peace will bring peace."
Except...that's Not what's happening. Vegan activism is paying off. Meat consumption is down 12.2% in the US. Awareness must be raised. The activists succeeded in making slavery illegal, did they not?
(10-01-2015, 10:34 PM)anagogy Wrote: We've all been victims and victimizers. In your judgment of the wrongness of meat eaters, I wouldn't be at all surprised if you become the biggest carnivore of all in your next life.
Ah, more of the "But you're JUDGING" BS. As though having a conviction about something being wrong is the worst possible offense! Never mind that I've never personally judged anyone here, ever, but have only held my ground about the inherently STS nature of their actions. If anyone feels judged, that is their own guilt, coming from within.
But regardless of whether it's judging or not, No matter how you slice it, judging someone for causing suffering is never as bad as actually causing the suffering.
(10-01-2015, 10:34 PM)anagogy Wrote: As the Ra quote you so conveniently completely ignored implied: people often mistake a finely tuned compassion that sees all things as love for indifference.
I'd say it's the opposite. Someone with a 'finely tuned compassion' wouldn't be knowingly contributing to suffering. No way.
Seeing all things as love doesn't mean engaging in STS actions with zero regard for the consequences of those actions.
(10-01-2015, 10:34 PM)anagogy Wrote: Monica, perhaps you are not here to "fix" the problem by controlling conditions to the point where things are agreeable to you. As I've said repeatedly, we didn't come to fix a broken world. Perhaps you are here to accept things as they are. I see a lot of people trying to reject things as they are (which necessitates the control -- "Yee haw, gotta stop them evil meat-eaters--whoo doggy!").
I won't be participating in that so don't even go there. This isn't about me. It's about the victims...the sentient beings who suffered so that all the meat-eaters here can have their bacon and hamburgers.
They didn't sacrifice themselves. They didn't do it willingly. They were forced. You can dance around it all day and into the next century, but the fact remains that eating meat contributes to unnecessary suffering. Apparently most of the people here don't care that they may be contributing to keeping this planet stuck in 3D.
Such strong attachment to...a temporary sensation in their mouth, gone in a few minutes. It's mind-blowing, really.
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