There isnt that much freedom it seems...and INFINITY

[Monica]

I've avoided these questions because I'm uncomfortable answering such absolute questions. The short answer, of course, is "I don't know." But my opinion, for what it's worth, is that yes, illusion is a distortion. It's the distortion that the logoi offer to the Creator when they build what Ra calls illusory systems of natural laws in order for the Creator to know itself.

What I'm getting at here is that, my understanding of infinity is without distortion. Undifferentiated.

Thus, if we are currently existing in an illusion, which is a distortion, we are currently not infinity, given the premise that infinity is undistorted.

As we evolve, we remove the distortion. I contend that this is why Ra meant by You are infinity...Ra was referring to our ultimate destination, not our current state.

I think unity100 is comparing our current state to our ultimate destination. Our current state isn't infinity, though our ultimate destination is.

?

Indeed, my whole argument has been that we are not separate from infinity (in contrast to what I understood to be unity100's position that we are finite and separate from infinity).

I recall unity100 stating that we are finite, but did he also say we are separate from infinity? I would say that we are both finite and infinite. We are actually infinite, within a limit, which is finite...in our current state.

We can be finite without being separate. On the other hand, if we perceive ourselves as separate, then are we separate?

I think of illusion as an exquisitely-wrought mask for infinity. It's the carefully-crafted gift that our logos is offering to the Creator so that it may know itself.

That 'mask' too is a part of infinity.

And yet, how can anything not be part of infinity? Illusion too is part of infinity.

Yes, of course, except that I might refer to it more as a mask for infinity.

If infinity is ALL, then the mask is part of infinity.

But what is the 'mask' ...the illusion? We have discussed why it exists, but do we know what it is?

How are these seeming paradoxes reconciled? How can we be infinity and yet distortions of infinity?

Ra said that the understandings they have to share begin and end in mystery. So I think it's OK if we don't resolve the paradox. But Ra also said that in their density the paradoxes are resolved and that some of us have wandered from their density, so I think it's worth the effort to attempt to resolve the paradox, remembering, of course, that we are not currently in a density of understanding.

Agreed.

My attempt to resolve the paradox is to think of you, me, and everyone and everything else as, at the same time, the entirety of the One Creator (each of us individually, that is, not just collectively), but carefully disguised to seem to be separate, finite, and independent entities so that we may make choices, learn, grow, and come to know ourselves as our true self (the Creator).

I'm interested in exploring what constitutes the disguise.

I cannot speak for unity100, but that's not how I interpreted his words. I thought unity100 was saying that, while we can access infinity holographically within ourselves, we are still distortions of infinity and thus not infinity alone, without any qualifiers.

Well, I think that may be what he's saying now that you've joined the thread, but earlier, in response to my posting of Ra's holographic quote, he disagreed that we contained infinity.

I may have missed something...but what I remember is that a distinction was being made between infinity within a limit (as in an infinite line, which is infinite within the confines of being a line) and infinity, which has no limits, no definitions, no distortions. But maybe that's what I said...I'm not sure anymore who said what! I will let unity100 speak for himself.

In other words, when I read Ra's words saying You are infinity, I interpret that to mean that we can access infinity within. But it's infinity within a limit, which is only possible if we understand that we're holographic.

With respect, I think that's, to some extent, a misinterpretation. They're definitely saying that we can access infinity, but their plain words, to me at least, are also saying that we are infinity without limit. The limits that we perceive are a function of our limited viewpoint, which we have chosen. "1.5 ... This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things."

At the heart of who we are, yes. But we're not aware of our full identity in our current illusion, so the end result is that we dwell in distortion and are thus finite, in our current state.

So this is because of illusion...Regardless of the reason, the result is still the same.

I am reminded of Christians debating a passage in the Bible. Entire religious denominations have been formed over disagreement about a single word. I contend that we must consider Ra's words in their full context, and add other words to the equation.

Taken alone, the words You are infinity would appear to mean as you indicate, but what I'm proposing is that we consider those words along with other words, to flesh out their meaning. I'm proposing that these words were intended to describe our true state, without distortion, not our current, distorted, finite state.

As we evolve, eventually our grasp of infinity also evolves, and maybe instead of infinity in 2 directions it is infinity in multiple directions. But as long as we have an individual awareness as an entity, I don't see how it could be said that we are the SAME as infinity. I think Ra was trying to convey a very important point that infinity is contained in us and yes, we are the Creator. But we are still us, too. We are individuals as well. That fact isn't negated. Thus, the only reconciliation to this paradox that I can see, is that Ra meant we are infinity within the limit of our self.

I suggested another reconciliation to the paradox earlier in this post. My suggestion could certainly be wrong, but I do think it's consistent with everything Ra said.

I appreciate your suggestion, but it doesn't quite work for me...without answering the question about illusion. Illusion seems to be like the missing mass in physics...conveniently filling in the gaps but no one seems to know what it is.

I understand that we don't have an answer for it.

The difference is that we're not undistorted. That is the clue.

As I understand it, we are simultaneously distorted and undistorted. Our basic reality is the undifferentiated unity, but we amuse ourselves by distorting that unity in various ways at this time.

Agreed. The reason I am in agreement with unity100 that our current state is being expressed as finite, is that this is the perspective we are operating from.

We may indeed possess both states, but unless we are accessing the infinite state, I don't see how we can really answer the question from that state.

I maintain that we can adopt the Creator's viewpoint, if we're lucky and disciplined. As I understand it, that's what opening violet ray is -- experiencing the mystical unity that underpins all things.

Perhaps so. Or perhaps it is yet another layer of illusion. Not even Ra has plumbed the mystery.

If we do access the Creator's viewpoint, and can speak from that viewpoint, then we could speak with certainty about that which we can now only speculate.

Of course we are the One Infinite Creator. But we're also ourselves. We have identities. We contain the whole without being the whole. I invite you to watch Nassim Haramein's lectures, which explain this visually and mathematically.

Is there a particular lecture you'd recommend starting with?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPgII_4ciFU

It's a 45-part lecture. Every moment is enthralling, all the way up the perhaps the last part which deals with speculation about the religious artifacts. But all the scientific and mathematical stuff is mind-blowing and in alignment with the Law of One. You really can't skip any, as it builds upon previous concepts.

That's right, because every piece contains a holographic pattern of the whole. Ra said this.

The key here is that we contain the pattern of infinity...the pattern of the Creator.

They said "any portion, no matter how small, of any density or illusory pattern contains, as in an holographic picture, the One Creator which is infinity." Each portion contains infinity, not just the pattern of infinity.

Ra didn't say each portion contains infinity.

Ra said each portion of any pattern contains infinity.

There is a qualifier there.

We are all one, and one is all. There is no conflict between these concepts. We all contain one another and all of Creation. All is contained in us. But we are not at any given time aware of and expressing All.

I certainly agree that we are not, at most times, aware of and expressing All, but my understanding is that we can, at times, become aware of and express All. It won't be something that we can put into words when we come back from that state, but we can reach it. "34.3 The entity which reaches intelligent infinity most often will perceive this experience as one of unspeakable profundity."

Sure. But from which perspective are we discussing? We are not in just a single state at all times.

Actually, unity100 distinguished the One Infinite Creator from infinity: "infinite creator is not infinity," "what you call as 'creator', even itself, is an entity/concept within the infinity. the reason it is able to experience, explore, is this. it is because it isnt infinite, by being intelligent, differentiated from infinity."

And I think unity100 is correct on this point. I misspoke. To correct my statement: I would say the One Infinite Creator is less distorted than we are, so closer to infinity.

This is what I think Ra was referring to. Ra was trying to encourage us to focus on the pattern of infinity within, because that is how we evolve. The infinity is there, if we look for it. But as long as we're having this conversation, that is a clue that some limits are still in place.

No doubt; the point I'm trying to make is that the limits are illusory and self-imposed. The most common process of removing the limits seems to be to evolve through the densities and then rejoin the Creator in seventh density. But Ra tells us that experiences of mystical unity are possible here and now, too.

Whether they are illusory and self-imposed does not change the fact that they exist. And as long as they exist, we dwell in a state of finiteness most of the time, except for when we access the infinite, if indeed we do access the infinite and not just another layer of illusion which appears to us to be infinite from our finite vantage point.

I don't know what I'm talking about either , and I can't tell you how enjoyable it is to discuss this in a non-confrontational manner with a fellow bozo.

Ha, agreed!