Why I am a Vegan

[Diana]

So what do you call human worlds that are separate from nature? I see what you are saying and I agree to a degree until I see that the whole identification is illusory. Humans have imagined themselves separate from nature but that doesn't mean we are in any way actually separate. Again, that humans vs nature perspective.

Yes, I believe nature has self-destructive aspects so to me the fact that something destroys doesn't make it separate from nature and if I'm being honest I think approaching it with that philosophy is a dead end because it focuses on the competition which can't be resolved that way.

Also, how can you be sure this apparent separation wasn't instigated by nature itself? Maybe it's just part of the Logos' plan?

That's what bothers me the most about some people who make these arguments (not you necessarily) is it sometimes appears to me that they would try to speak for nature, to express what they think nature is expressing and that's fine as an opinion, but its frustrating then when they try to insist that 'nature is x and y' when they really have no way of knowing.

Again, I admit I just don't follow your sense of natural and unnatural. You could maybe say its a semantic issue but I think it's more of a philosophical difference we have. In your defense though I think more people would understand what you are saying than what I am saying.

Also, I really wanted to requote this...

"So I will say that animals and plants kept for a food source are deprived of the full experience of living possible for their lives, just as a person in a prison is."

See the change? That's how my mind works.

Okay, for my part, let's forget "natural." I agree that it could mean anything. I am not speaking for nature, only observing the world and perceiving. Also, the person in prison is a different scenario than animals kept for food—gosh, I find it very difficult to word things clearly most of the time here. You are wrong about my views being more easily understood. Not even here does this happen let alone in the general world.

What it boils down to for me is compassion. I don't endeavor to infringe upon any free will, be it human, animal, plant, mineral, planet etc. I'm in for challenges because I as a human need to eat something. I make my choices based on the least harm (which if I recollect correctly you don't agree with) according to my awareness. I make choices in everything based on this. Infringing upon the free will of other humans gets more difficult. I try to not do it, but if I come across a man beating a dog I will intervene without hesitation, and screw the man's free will. If I see a woman beating her child in a store I will say something in defense of the child. These are broad comments which would vary in each situation. 

I probably live in a cowardly way because I don't know what to do about many things. I try to let life be on this planet. But it is a blurry proposition. Letting life be for animals is different than letting life be for humans. Humans burn down swaths of forest every year in AZ—controlled burns. Letting life be for animals would be to leave them alone in their environment. Forests do burn naturally occasionally, but the animal life will have some awareness of their environment and act accordingly (that is not to say there would be absolutely no harm then). Letting humans be is to leave them unchallenged to burn as they will for reasons that make no sense (to me, or the reasons are human-egocentric). So there is a conflict. You can't let them both be. Well, you can let everything be, but the end result is humans just get to do what they want and too bad for other life forms. This may be "all is well" in the bigger picture of evolution, but it is not honoring other life forms and therefore this whole 3D existence centers around humans and their free will. Perhaps there is agreement among other species to assist humanity in this way. How pathetic though. That humans would need this kind of agreement that causes so much untold suffering. It reminds me of Christianity and the belief that all things are here for human use. Perhaps this is the way the laws are set up through the densities, but what would be amiss in holding a vision of something greater than that even here? 

As an individual, even though it's set up this way, and there is free will, and all entities are learning lessons etc., I still have choices about what I do within that system. Am I going to burn swaths of forest and cause suffering to the life there because I am afraid that there might possibly be a fire that would reach my house? No. Am I going to stop those who do it? No, but this decision is so much harder. If I had a vote on it, I would vote. Do I want to be an activist and create that vote? No. What I do is live my life in the most compassionate way (for all life) and that I feel is the extent of my influence (and I don't even do it to be an influence; I do it because that is who I am). It's all very challenging to be here, for me anyway, and those who have it figured out—that's great. I still find it very challenging on a daily basis.