Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another?

[unity100]

This analogy operates on the premise that there are pre-existing choices available to the entity. That is, when an entity faces a situation, he or she can choose among a limited or unlimited number of pre-fabricated choices.

This runs contrary to my humble understanding which is that the entity creates each choice for herself. It is not that the veil limits what pre-existing choices she can see, but rather the veil limits what choices she will choose to create.

unfortunately this seems to be as such, pre-existing choices existing to entities.

because everything that exists has to affect any other thing that exists, even if not looked from the perspective of a 7d totality. because everything that exists does that, we are always under the influence of infinite numbers of factors, ranging from the gravity of the planet, its magnetic field, to our spouse or our neighbor. add to this the fact that any existing entity also lives as a subset of a certain grouping of mind (societal mind, or greater mind groupings) and inherits various biases and thought patterns, the situation even grows more interactive. moreover, there are energy concerns. there are innumerable fluxes of energy flowing everywhere, innumerable interactions and patterns of energy.

any action/choice that an entity is going to take, has to be feasible under these conditions.

for example, you cant just become a sun in the next second, whereas you were a 3d entity a second before. theoretically it is possible, however, it is possible only in an universe that has the suitable conditions or flows up to that point.

or, in a less extreme example, you cant just become emperor of the world in a negative empire over a day, while living in a world which has democracies the day before.

that is, even leaving out the fact that all kinds of feelings, ideas, even energy format, model of entity is under innumerable effects, and these eventually make the entity inclined or suitable to various choices, and not suitable to others. the entity would even be wanting to make the choice it is going to make, due to the culmination of all these, in addition to what flows from within itself in the first place. that is, of course, leaving out the fact that any entity's energy flows, model, biases already have shaped due to its development, place in the dance up till this point.

so, joe will be inclined, 'wanting' to marry jane over elaine, due to culmination of all of these.

he can choose to marry elaine instead of jane. but, for that, he will need to contrast the natural flow of life up till this point and on. he will have to endure the energy flows, choices, the different format of the flow of the river with that choice.

any choice that is not compliant with the flow of the river of existence in these parts, will be harder to make, in proportion to its incompatibility.

so it is like a flow of string-like colored waters, upwards, this business is, in an analogy.

“The experiences are this distortion”. Ra calls the Law of Free Will the Law of Confusion. Intrinsic to the nature of the faculty of free will is confusion - to utilize free will implies (and inevitably produces) confusion about the nature of the ground of being, about infinity and the nature of the All Self.

This is why, I believe, ultimately, free will ends in surrender. Ultimately, the final choice is to abide in choiceless awareness.

to be honest, the law of confusion, and the law of free will (in the sense this logos and 7 other stars are trying to implement probably, because they are in the same confederation), all hinge on the veil, and heavy veil.

however the irony is that, in this supposed free situation behind the veil, there isnt any free will as intended, just as i have discussed before ; the entity is cut from its own higher self, planetary, galactic, etheric influences, but, this time, its free will is limited by the 3d entities' influence it inhabits the same veiled density, regardless of those entities' total influences compatible with him/her, or not. it is basically taking the power to influence an entity's being and choices from entire creation/existence, and giving it to only the entities dwelling in its own 3d density. a much, much, narrower choice subset.

There is neither creation nor destruction,
Neither destiny nor freewill;
Neither path nor achievement;
This is the final truth

valid only at the point of infinity, even above the point where infinite intelligence (aka creator) exists. nothingness and everythingness. stillness.

Indeed. And all along, deep down within our heart there is only one choice. Not precisely to “become” the Creator – because we already are – but to lose the notion that we are not the Creator, to release the idea that we are these separate, limited, finite beings who are in a physical world, in a density, and subject to the multitude of energy currents which move hither and yon.

my approach was more specific than this. i was talking about the choices an entity could make in its life at any given point.

Here is another angle to view the situation of free will, its limitations and its potential: Right now, we are already self-realized. We always have been. But instead of realizing that we are already realized, already the Creator, we exercise "free will", or confusion. As Ra says in the opening session of the Law of One, we choose this experience as an alternative to experiencing the unity which binds all things together.

again, only valid at the point of infinity.

The focus of virtually all entities on this planet is upon a movie being projected onto a screen, as in the standard movie theatre. This movie is the Movie of Creation – it contains every entity in the universe as principle characters along with all the infinite dynamics possible in the manifested universe, everything from the First Distortion onward. It is the manifest universe. ...........

this analogy is in the similar position ; it is only valid at the point of infinity, from the point of infinity. from infinity's perspective, nothing is happening. yet, nothing is infinity, until they actually become infinity. infinite intelligence is exploring the concept of being multiples. anything that is not infinity, therefore, is finite, is multiple. it doesnt matter if there is actually nothing called 'finite'. in the form it can exist, it exists, and it is called finite. anything that is not the infinity, is finite. and will not be infinity again, until they become infinity. they becoming infinity, merging with it in a 'future' point in time, however that may be, does not make them infinite. or their 'real selves' infinite. it is a referral to a future time point, and has reality only at that future time point. or state. in any state that is not that particular state, the entity will remain finite.

Ahem, you don’t say…

Unity100 wrote: “ra material has been a thorough plan it seems. firstly, it was done after a wave of spiritual energy influx (probably due to the wanderers again) 1960s. secondly, apparently (as we understand from past life mentions of the ll group from what Ra says) not only ll group but other wanderers also were incarnated to facilitate this plan, and not only once too. (for preparations). ra wandered about a lot of other groups and this group met the conditions.” [From Post #19 in this thread.]

It’s possible that I could have misread this paragraph, but “ra material has been a thorough plan it seems”, reads pretty clearly that you believed the transmitting of the Ra material was accomplished only after previously coordinated action for the purpose of preparing the way.

you havent misread, but you mistook the concept.

there are two level of plans ;

first, the potential wanderer wave of the 60s, for whatever aim it was done.

second, there is the thorough, long ongoing plan about Ra material it seems; we know that the ll group have had previous incarnations, in preparation to this incarnation and this work, through book v. we also know that Ra says they have gone through various groups, for possible contact facilitation. now, if, ll group of three was preparing for such a work for various incarnations, it is possible that there were more groups doing the same.

so, there are two (and actually probably many more) sizes and intents of plan ongoing probably, supporting and getting traction from each other.

Well put, Unity100. Sometimes when I think of what conditions were like in Venus’ third density, I think of hippies. Except I imagine them less recreational-drug-oriented and more philosophically - perhaps even magically - oriented.

I think hanging on the side of Venus millions of years ago was a sign that read, “If Venus is a rockin, don’t come a knockin.” If ya know what I mean. (Nudge nudge.)

curious angle really. if we remember that majority of 6d wanderers were from Ra, as told by Ra in 1980s, and reflect on hippie thing, it gives a parallel with Ra's experience and what they told us so far.

I ran a key word search on “subconscious” and didn’t find anything helpful. A search for “unconscious” yielded ambiguous results that, frankly, I think can be read either way. This one however seems to indicate that the veil created the subconscious (or unconscious) mind.

still doesnt differ much - for any grouping of mind subsets to be possible due to effect of the veil, there has to be various properties that the veil will cause to separate. so, when veil comes, conscious properties stay in conscious part, subconscious parts stay behind the veil. the veil affects different property-holding parts of the mind differently in this case, causing the separation.

It just doesn’t make sense to me that there could be a portion of the mind less conscious prior to the veil, something which would be called sub or unconscious. All the content of the mind was available to the “conscious” mind before the veil. The mind was an indivisible unity as far as I understand these things.

it can be also a issue of potentiation/activity. the more active part of mind is conscious, the less active, potential parts of the mind, is subconscious. before the veil, more active elements within the mind would manifest more, whereas less active elements would manifest less, despite being readily reachable.

By the way, have you ever considered the human diaphragm – situated between the third and the fourth chakras – as a physical analog for the veil?

maybe. or maybe not. may be, in the sense that 3d is more rigid, in multiple-existence format, (more than 1 entity being present concept is emphasized) and in 4d due to more empathy, the differentiation becomes blurry, and societal memory complexes can be created. in that sense, it seems so.

Yes, yes, I understood you to have said that wanderers have greater veil-piercing ability, greater capacity to tap into the subconscious or spirit complex. The basic supporting reason you provided for your theory was this:

had it been possible for 3d entities to be able to penetrate the veil in that manner, and accomplish those tasks through incarnational programming, no wanderer would be required to do those tasks.

You are saying that the wanderers accomplished what the natives could not. There is an assumption in there that both groups wanted the same thing. You say wanderers succeeded, natives did not. In your thinking, had the third-density entities been able to penetrate the veil, they could have done for themselves what the wanderers did. But they couldn’t, you say, so the wanderers stepped in.

You are assuming common purpose and common objective between the two groups. I am saying that it is not necessarily so. Perhaps what the wanderers accomplished was not a result of piercing the veil in ways that the natives could not, but rather was a result of succeeding in their own, different mission.

See what I am saying?

.................

Please give me a high-five for that, because I think I just rocked.

i see what you are saying, however, purpose is a different discussion and facet of this issue.

if we say the purpose was not 3d entities', but, the local governing principles', or logoses', then it means that the logos has fulfilled that purpose through the 6d wanderers. if 3d was an alternative, logos or the governing principles, guardians would prefer that, because it would be more compliant and natural in regard to this locale's understanding. (veil quarantines free will and such).

if we say the purpose of the 3d entities was also the accomplishment of this, it again means that 6d wanderers were needed to fulfill this, because, 3d entities were not able to do it themselves.

actually this discussion is a bit unnecessary, when approached from technical reasons ;

an entity which have stayed in a nonveiled state longer, would have more experience, stronger feeling of how the merging of conscious and subconscious would feel. ie, it would have greater acclimatization, greater time, in a state of nonveiled existence. there would be more links in between conscious parts of the mind and unconscious, and the experiences or feelings that link these.

a 3d entity however, would have just realized that it is itself a separate entity, and other separate entities exist, and because it is just out of 2d, it wont have such experiences or feelings associated in its mind, be it conscious, be it conscious part, with a nonveiled situation.

it is highly possible that the entity would very shortly go into a veiled state after becoming 3d, in places that employ the veil. so it is even highly possible that the entity would 'understand' and know 3d as the veiled situation, it will know the meaning of being in there, is as veiled.

I love your examples, especially the one you used earlier in the thread of the individual espousing the Ra Material in the middle of a village. You posed the question (paraphrased), “And what are you doing there in the middle of that village?” You’ve got a funny bone in you.

you have no idea ...

All humor aside, the 18th and 19th century wanderer may have been doing indigo-ray work, but I’m not sure that simply fulfilling ones pre-incarnational programming necessarily means working through indigo.

As I understand the nature and mechanism of this programming, it is like an invisible hand leading the incarnate entity to people and circumstances and providing inspiration in order that the entity might fulfill its self-chosen mission. When the entity meets face-to-face with another with whom he is to do work, that stirring impulse within that says, “follow this lead” is not, to my knowledge, doing conscious indigo ray work. It’s trusting and following the promptings from within the self.

continued inventive scientific activity would require consistent employment of indigo. in the manner you describe above, probably any 3d entity can experience indigo ray influence for an instant. but, continual invention, creative work, is not an instantaneous matter. you need to express, manifest the muse, once you get the muse.

That sounds most reasonable to me. Confederation acknowledges yearning/request and formulates a creative way to deliver that which is being asked for.

however it also may be a technical necessity to implement. imagine a world/society in which conditions for evolution are hampered and stopped. entities continue cycles doing nothing, not evolving. moving with conditioned intellectual biases rather than making choices with their mind according to their desires, yearnings, feelings. 3d entities, always trying to survive, trying to exist like an early 2d entity, without having the means to actually engage in 3d activity.

such a situation goes beyond the concerns of free will. it is a mishap that needs to be fixed.

Though of course it must be a cakewalk from the perspective of third-density.

maybe harder. since, the consciousness, and spiritual mass of the entity(ies) would have grown much larger, and hence the results of their earlier choices, actions, would have grown much bigger up till that point.

I understand what you are stating here, and I assure you that I am not trying to be challenging for the sake of being challenging, but I would like to know if there are any specific sections within the Law of One material that gave you this impression? Also, would you define the “pursuit which is cleanly said to be intended for seekers of higher passion”, please? Do you mean the higher work of the adept to which Ra refers at various points? Or do you mean Law of One material study in general?

anything ?

imagine going into a lucid dream while sleeping, and seeing atlantis after reading passages about atlantis at night, and seeing sons of belial, and sons of one in various settings. with the accompanying feelings ... or, reading the psychic attack parts, and then subconsciously getting hooked, and drawing such an influence/attack on yourself.

Whereas I tend to gloss over information regarding Yahweh’s genetic experiments, you seem to give weight and intense consideration to such data. Personally, I do not feel that information of that nature helps me know who I am any more deeply, or helps engender self-acceptance, or helps me transcend the personality shell into my (our) greater identity.

To me, such information stays within the realm of creation. Though principles of evolution may be able to be derived from this information, by and large I consider it to belong to an illusory dance. It’s almost on the level of a soap opera – who did what to whom and why, find out next week!

To use my analogy of the movie, such information belongs to the images projected onto the movie screen. Meanwhile, the screen itself, the infinite one, remains unchanged, present, real, and permanent.

I do not however disparage your study. On the contrary, I applaud how thoroughly you have considered this information and how well you have weaved it into a worldview tapestry of your own making. You bring fresh (if controversial) insight and novel theories to Law of One discussion.

When reading your words I wonder at times how you keep missing the heart of the Law of One, but I acknowledge that you have synthesized and integrated a great deal of the outer information available within the Ra Material with your non-Ra Material knowledge base into a perspective which is truly all your own. (This is a compliment.)

what is existence ? what are you ? you are not infinity, according to the logic that was in above blocks in this topic. then what are you ?

if we take what we are told, it means you are a finite entity, a subset of infinity, learning the manyness, and through that learning, yourself, as part of infinite intelligence.

with that, you are living various things, experiencing various things, and therefore learning with your mind, and evolving. that goes for your space/time part, and your time/space, unmanifested part. they are both parts of the existing 'illusion', which illusion is actually the reality as the reality can ever possibly be.

you are striving to learn yourself, and you are going towards infinity. but, doesnt that mean that, after a certain point, you will need to learn THE infinity, because, you are going towards it, and increasingly becoming infinity ?

it does. its actually more than that, because the rules and situations inside your own microcosm is not different from the outer macrocosm, they both have the same underlying basic principles. your outer greater identity, will eventually identify with infinity. therefore, in any given point, you will need to learn more things about what you considered as 'outer' before, because, those outer things, are becoming part of your own identity too, as your spiritual mass increasingly goes toward infinity as the densities go by.

but even much more simpler than that, there are two things :

first, catalyst is catalyst. one can take lessons from any catalyst, if s/he is sensitive enough, and pays enough attention, and uses his/her mind.

what yahweh had done is probably (and it seems so) an unhealthy attachment to the 2d-3d entities they were guarding over during a certain period of their existence. and they have done various lapses of judgment in regard to wisdom while dealing with those entities, just like overcompassionate parents. ironically, the entities they seem to be having this compassion for, seem to have strong orange activity (my way or the high way), possessiveness, assertiveness, not too much different from spoiled kids that are possessing their extremely loving but unwise parents. and just like how overly spoiled, tolerated kids can annoy neighbors, interfere with their lives, and even sometimes wreck neighborhoods, these entities are also distorting this experience of 7 billion souls, approx 5 bil and more not from their own planet, in this earth experience.

in everything there is a lesson, and even in a planet wrecking incident there is a lesson. BUT, the first lesson there in this boondogle that is to be learned, would be not to raise overspoiled kids, and then allow them to wreck the neighborhood.

when you look at it this way, it doesnt seem so far fetched, and so far out of one's own house, does it ? the only difference here is, this example shows us such lack of wisdom, overcompassion and possession can happen in stellar levels, much further in scale than being in only family-wide levels. the person who wakes up to that fact would immediately conclude that, such lack of wisdom could happen even in galactic levels, given the necessary circumstances.

second, this is not a lesson that is specific to these circumstances. it can happen anywhere, anyplace. any entity reading these lines today, or not reading them, may be going to be a part of a society, or principle that is overseeing/supporting some evolution or some mechanic of universe somewhere, with its responsibility. this is even more so important for wanderers.

third, and maybe least, many entities are trying to do service on this planet. wanderers foremost. knowing, understanding the patterns of thought and biases, their causes would be a much more efficient way to do any service, since most of the patterns that are affecting this planet seems to be stemming from this particular historical issue.

I disagree with you here and there but I respect the process by which you've reached your conclusions. Though I (as I perceive myself) am no enlightened master, I do believe that many of your conclusions will be transformed when you discover and experience the Law of One within yourself - that is, when you find that all is already perfect and there is only peace and oneness. Furthermore, when this happens, I believe that you will give less weight to much of the information that currently possesses your thinking mind. Then again, I am just a bozo here...

again, all is not perfect until you reach infinity. infinity isnt even perfect, because the term 'perfect' has no meaning there. there is only stillness, precise and exact balance.

moreover, manifestation of existence (even the existence of universe stays way belong this level, as a subset of it) doesnt happen with just thinking and saying 'we are one and perfect'. planets need to turn, souls need to be harvested, fates need to be planned, infinite amounts of activities need to be done and manifested for even that nonexistent perfectness to happen. and those who do not know, cannot do it.