Why I am not a vegan

[Monica]

No it's not a moot point. You already said that animals are our equal other-selves, so by logic I can assume that you want to imprison/punish anyone who kills them in order to mete out justice.

Then you assume wrong. I'm not even thinking about legality at all. All of my views have been from the perspective of spirituality, not legality.

The idea of imprisoning meat-eaters is absurd. Not because animals are worth less than humans, but because meat-eating is so ingrained in society.

Therefore it is moot.

So anyone who has any convictions or ideals is fundamentalist and rigid? If I think human slavery is wrong, does that make me fundamentalist and rigid?

No.

Why not? What is the difference?

Do you have any convictions about anything?

Yes

Are you 'rigid, fundamentalist and self-righteous' for having those convictions?

There is a difference between righteousness and self-righteousness. People who believe that their religion is the one true religion are self-righteous.

Agreed. But that doesn't apply here at all.

Righteousness is what is right. Self-righteous is being moralistic and intolerant of the behavior of others.

Then are you saying we should be tolerant of murderers and rapists? And never try to raise awareness about human murder and rape? (since that would be 'moralizing'.)

So what's wrong with that? Would you feel the same way about someone who had 'strict, rigid adherence' to the idea that murder or rape was wrong?

Moot point, of course not.

Why do you say 'of course not'? Isn't that a double standard? Why is it ok for you to 'moralize' about your convictions that murder and rape are wrong, but it's 'self-righteous, arrogant and judgmental' if vegans do the same?

As I said, righteousness and self-righteousness are not the same thing. An example of self -righteousness in my opinion is when I discussed my chickens and you went on about people with backyard chickens "kill" them when they stop laying eggs. I couldn't even respond to that because it made me angry number one, and it was judgmental/self-righteous, imo, number two. Honestly, I was appalled then, but didn't say anything.

You aren't answering my questions. Why is me pointing out the obvious (that backyard chickens are typically sold for meat) 'judgmental/self-righteous'? Is it not a fact that backyard chickens are sold for meat?

This a judgment from someone who is vegan who thinks raising chickens is bad/ wrong? Not sure what you think, but I got the impression you are not an advocate of backyard chickens.

What difference does that make? I told you that I actually support people who raise backyard chickens. I buy their eggs at the farmer's market. So it appears that you have made some assumptions here. If you got angry when I asked whether those chickens get sold for meat, that isn't may fault. It was an honest question.

However, from my point of view, it is a very righteous thing to do. It's a great way to get people to think about the issues. I tell them about my chickens and why I have them and then they are very quiet . Hopefully being thoughtful about the issues.

It isn't a black-and-white issue. I don't like that they are sold for meat. But we have to feed our dogs and cats, so for now I continue to support people like you. For you to twist that into me supposedly 'judging' you and being 'self-righteous' and then getting angry, are all your own perceptions/projections, not mine.

Besides these posts, what exactly are you doing to address the meat industry? I'd be interested to know of the activism you are doing.

I am in the alternative health business so I talk with many people on a daily basis. I bring up the issue only if/when it seems appropriate, usually in the context of health. Raising awareness one person at a time. I have participated in rallies in the past, but I no longer think those are effective. I support organizations who do billboards. (I don't support anyone doing any kind of vandalism.) Right now, I am spearheading a project to pay people to watch a 4-minute slaughterhouse video. This has been been done by others and has proven to be the most effective strategy ever, to raise awareness. People won't usually watch the videos on their own, but they'll do it for pay. We set up a table in public places and offer the pay-per-view to passersby. I think it's a brilliant idea!

The reason I participate in these discussion here on B4 is because I feel it's very important. If otherwise 'spiritual' people continue to be blind to this issue, then what hope is there for the rest of the world?