07-12-2010, 09:42 PM
Dear Unity100,
Firstly, let me say that it was inappropriate of me to say that you place “too much emphasis” upon information. The balance for each entity is unique, so who am I to know what is too much for you? Better would it have been for me to say that I would not place so much emphasis on information, and here is why _______.
Now, to your point. I understand where you’re coming from on this, I believe. I find certain schools of thought in the general New Age movement to be a bit too mushy, fluffy, and wish-oriented for me. However, I don’t feel compelled to provide a corrective influence to the entity of New Age or similar thought pattern.
In your thinking, what role does information which is learned from a source external to the self (be it an other-self or a book) play in the evolution of an entity?
Thank you for your honesty. I am instinctively weary of anyone who appoints themselves to the role of teaching others that which the self deems important lessons to be learned by the others. I lived with an individual for a couple of years who took it upon himself to take my spiritual growth into his own hands. So advanced was he in his own self-estimation that he could see the way for me. He subsequently proceeded to engineer situations in order to teach me that which I needed to learn, despite my protests and requests that the activity cease. (To those who know my story, this individual’s name does not begin with a “D”.)
I am not alleging that you are of the same disposition, but I am wondering (and could be very wrong) if there is a similar motivation in your case.
I know that you are aware of the principle of service being possible only to the extent that it is requested. I ask how this figures into your approach in relating to other spiritually oriented entities who you deem to be lacking in wisdom?
I concur that the 200 year plan (if that’s what we’re calling it) was indeed a plan. But we know this because Ra told us. Additionally, the facts of the historical progression corroborate Ra's statements.
However, Ra did not say that a plan was put into effect which laid the groundwork for the coming of the Law of One material. You deduced that such a plan must exist simply on the basis of their being a sequence of events culminating in the Law of One material.
Again, while there very well may have been a plan, (it would be interesting to learn that there were other entities heroically sacrificing before 1981 for the purpose of preparing the way for the Law of One) the sequence all by itself cannot prove the existence of a plan. Would you agree or disagree on that point?
About the veil separating the conscious from the subconscious mind, I would say that the veil creates those divisions. Without the veil, there is no conscious and subconscious, there is just mind.
I don’t understand what you mean by “separate machination” though.
I agree that the entity is not “forfeiting core elements of existence of the entity”. The entity is not losing its identity and all the experience accumulated therein. All that continues to exist, of course, but the wanderer entity loses access to that billions-year-old identity and find themselves in the predicament of the third-density entity.
Here’s a clumsy analogy. The individual soul begins within a one room house in its infant experience, whether that’s in second density or third, or maybe even first, I’m not sure. As experience is gained, new rooms are added to the house of the entity.
The higher density entity, having been around the block a few times, owns a mansion filled with experience and made of thousands of rooms. When the higher density entity incarnates as a third-density wanderer, all of its rooms of experience do not cease to exist, do not go away, they simply become, for the most part, inaccessible. The conscious mind of the wanderer is relegated to, let’s say, a handful of unlit rooms in the front of the house, the doors leading to the remainder of the house (its experience) being shut fairly tightly, though able to be opened in the dreaming and in whatever other method that may successfully pierce the veil (open the door).
The situation for the third-density native and the wanderer is the same. Both are barred access to their whole house, both are kept in a few unlit, narrow rooms. The wanderer’s house is of course much bigger, but, like the third-density native, it is barred entry for all intents and purposes. Would you agree, disagree?
I get what you’re saying, you are saying that all or most entities on planet Earth wanted to achieve what the wanderers achieved, but only the wanderers had access to subconscious information so only the wanderers achieved their goals. It’s a keen observation, but one I'm not sure is entirely true.
What I believe you are seeing is not greater access to the subconscious, but rather a different mission between the two groups. The wanderers have achieved the particular goals you named – and in so doing acted in contrast to native entities – simply because they had a different mission.
Third-density natives may have also achieved similar results of following through with their pre-incarnational programming but the objectives may have been different from those of the wanderers. It’s just two sets of groups following two slightly different game plans.
But there is so much speculation in both of our points of view because neither of us knows to what extent the native population participated in the wanderers’ collective mission of the 1700’s and 1800’s.
So you are saying that humans and wanderers wanted the same thing, but, the humans finding themselves incapable of achieving their objectives, the wanderers had to step in to fulfill the mission?
This raises a very interesting question. Was the 200 year plan something the Harvesters initiated of their own accord and imposed on the Earth-garden as a means of increasing the harvest? Or was the 200 year plan the Confederation’s response to a collective need from humanity?
I am leaning towards the latter, considering that:
1) Service can only be offered to the extent it is requested. Therefore the Confederation could only offer this plan as means of serving the request of Earth citizens.
2) All happens as a result of free will. The native population must have desired that which the wanderers delivered, because the Confederation can only operate within the free will parameters of the third-density population.
I grok what you’re saying. You make a valid point that in order to step outside the boundaries of what is considered possible, it is helpful (perhaps necessary?) to have some awareness of there being other possibilities not yet manifested.
This ties into why the Confederation advertises mystery – to wake entities up to the possibility of there being more to – or more than – the illusion.
However, there must be other avenues for new or novel configurations of thought to emerge within a given system. The resolutions, “There has got to be a better way to do this.” –or- “There must be a solution to this problem.” are surely enough to motivate a journey of discovery through trial and error and inspiration which leads to the discovery of that which is novel. In other words, it is not necessary to have pre-existing knowledge stashed deep in the mind about other possibilities from previous experience, though that would certainly help.
As most things are.
Would you agree that faith and will are two sides of the same coin? Actually, what do you think about faith?
They are certainly varying degrees of involvement in any pursuit, the spiritual included. I may be reading you incorrectly, but it seems that you do not accept the divine rightness of entities pursuing spirituality with less passion than you feel you possess.
The point I was trying to make was that just because the information is present in the Ra Material does not mean that it is central to spiritual evolution.
It is a salient point you make that a lot of “transient” information is marked as such. (Btw, “transient” was the word I meant when I said “technical”.) But I believe that Ra marked only the most superfluous material as transient. There are still other details which, while endlessly fascinating, are not, in my opinion, worth spending too much time considering on the journey towards knowing and becoming the One.
To the question, “Why is this particular information in the Ra Material”, there are only two answers which will be true in every case. 1) Don Elkins wanted to know about it. 2) Ra felt that it would not infringe upon the free will of the group to share it.
In neither case is the information shared necessarily significant, even if not marked as “transient”.
As this thread has evolved into a discussion between us, I will continue in that vein and ask this: What is it that you as an incarnate entity hope to achieve? Do you have a defined goal? What is it that you seek? And by what method or methods do you hope to achieve this objective?
Light/Love to you,
GLB
Quote:Unity100 wrote: i place emphasis on information, because, it seems to be ignored in modern new age literature and thought. entities are given the impression that 'if you just love/believe, everything will just fall into place'. yeah, it might, if higher principles take the responsibility and put them into place on behalf. but, there is a certain point at which each child needs to grow up and start shouldering responsibilities.
Firstly, let me say that it was inappropriate of me to say that you place “too much emphasis” upon information. The balance for each entity is unique, so who am I to know what is too much for you? Better would it have been for me to say that I would not place so much emphasis on information, and here is why _______.
Now, to your point. I understand where you’re coming from on this, I believe. I find certain schools of thought in the general New Age movement to be a bit too mushy, fluffy, and wish-oriented for me. However, I don’t feel compelled to provide a corrective influence to the entity of New Age or similar thought pattern.
In your thinking, what role does information which is learned from a source external to the self (be it an other-self or a book) play in the evolution of an entity?
Quote:Unity100 wrote: but then again, most of the entities on this planet do not need to worry about this for some time, it seems. my aim is poking the eye of those who need to do, but havent yet.
Thank you for your honesty. I am instinctively weary of anyone who appoints themselves to the role of teaching others that which the self deems important lessons to be learned by the others. I lived with an individual for a couple of years who took it upon himself to take my spiritual growth into his own hands. So advanced was he in his own self-estimation that he could see the way for me. He subsequently proceeded to engineer situations in order to teach me that which I needed to learn, despite my protests and requests that the activity cease. (To those who know my story, this individual’s name does not begin with a “D”.)
I am not alleging that you are of the same disposition, but I am wondering (and could be very wrong) if there is a similar motivation in your case.
I know that you are aware of the principle of service being possible only to the extent that it is requested. I ask how this figures into your approach in relating to other spiritually oriented entities who you deem to be lacking in wisdom?
Quote:Unity100 wrote: but some plans, we can easily make out before being told to. the 200 year long plan for example. it may not have been a precisely timed plan, but it is evident that it was a grand plan that had certain goals.
I concur that the 200 year plan (if that’s what we’re calling it) was indeed a plan. But we know this because Ra told us. Additionally, the facts of the historical progression corroborate Ra's statements.
However, Ra did not say that a plan was put into effect which laid the groundwork for the coming of the Law of One material. You deduced that such a plan must exist simply on the basis of their being a sequence of events culminating in the Law of One material.
Again, while there very well may have been a plan, (it would be interesting to learn that there were other entities heroically sacrificing before 1981 for the purpose of preparing the way for the Law of One) the sequence all by itself cannot prove the existence of a plan. Would you agree or disagree on that point?
Quote:Unity100 wrote: veil, as far as i know, is a mechanism that separates conscious mind from subconscious. this is its mechanism. there isnt a separate machination. if we consider the fact that Ra has been saying all that is experienced is experienced in mind ...
About the veil separating the conscious from the subconscious mind, I would say that the veil creates those divisions. Without the veil, there is no conscious and subconscious, there is just mind.
I don’t understand what you mean by “separate machination” though.
Quote:Unity100 wrote: only 3d body is put into activation instead of a higher d body, and veil is put in between conscious and subconscious mind. else, the entity wouldnt be able to return to its original density upon death. forgetting and contact to subconscious in a heavy body creates the sacrifice. not forfeiting core elements of existence of the entity.
I agree that the entity is not “forfeiting core elements of existence of the entity”. The entity is not losing its identity and all the experience accumulated therein. All that continues to exist, of course, but the wanderer entity loses access to that billions-year-old identity and find themselves in the predicament of the third-density entity.
Here’s a clumsy analogy. The individual soul begins within a one room house in its infant experience, whether that’s in second density or third, or maybe even first, I’m not sure. As experience is gained, new rooms are added to the house of the entity.
The higher density entity, having been around the block a few times, owns a mansion filled with experience and made of thousands of rooms. When the higher density entity incarnates as a third-density wanderer, all of its rooms of experience do not cease to exist, do not go away, they simply become, for the most part, inaccessible. The conscious mind of the wanderer is relegated to, let’s say, a handful of unlit rooms in the front of the house, the doors leading to the remainder of the house (its experience) being shut fairly tightly, though able to be opened in the dreaming and in whatever other method that may successfully pierce the veil (open the door).
The situation for the third-density native and the wanderer is the same. Both are barred access to their whole house, both are kept in a few unlit, narrow rooms. The wanderer’s house is of course much bigger, but, like the third-density native, it is barred entry for all intents and purposes. Would you agree, disagree?
Quote:Quote:GLB previously wrote: Your basic assertion is this: wanderers incarnated in waves in the 1700’s with the general mission of offering a philosophy which upholds the freedom of the individual. The basic reason behind this mission was to free entities from the drudgery of their day in order that they might have time and opportunity to contemplate spiritual evolution.
I agree. But if I understand you correctly, you are saying that the fact that these wanderers came and fulfilled their function (however imperfectly) means that wanderers have greater access to their subconscious minds. Right?
Unity100 responded: it is evident that they do. first, had they not have such an access, they would function perfectly identical to the earth native entities, acting along with the societal mind and its conditionings. it would require ability to go past the veil to remember core ideals and concepts of higher densities, or, concepts that are left out/held out of the societal mind. or, at least, some ability to get in sync with such ideas through any means and receive them. be it intuition, be it connection to roots of mind, be it some kind of channeling, muse, inspiration. doesnt matter. the fact is, they were able to go through the veil. else, they would just be 'rather successful' participants of the society, while acting in lockstep with it.
I get what you’re saying, you are saying that all or most entities on planet Earth wanted to achieve what the wanderers achieved, but only the wanderers had access to subconscious information so only the wanderers achieved their goals. It’s a keen observation, but one I'm not sure is entirely true.
What I believe you are seeing is not greater access to the subconscious, but rather a different mission between the two groups. The wanderers have achieved the particular goals you named – and in so doing acted in contrast to native entities – simply because they had a different mission.
Third-density natives may have also achieved similar results of following through with their pre-incarnational programming but the objectives may have been different from those of the wanderers. It’s just two sets of groups following two slightly different game plans.
But there is so much speculation in both of our points of view because neither of us knows to what extent the native population participated in the wanderers’ collective mission of the 1700’s and 1800’s.
Quote:Quote: GLB previously wrote: If so, I am disagreeing on the basis that what you are witnessing is the wanderer following through with pre-incarnational programming in the course of their incarnation. Third-density natives do the same thing every day. In partnership with their higher selves they, prior to incarnation, made choices about their own missions they wanted to fulfill on planet Earth while incarnate, missions that may be coordinated with a larger plan of similar-minded souls. When and if they do follow through with that pre-incarnational programming, it does not necessarily mean that they have access to the subconscious that others do not have in potential.
Unity100 responded: now, if it had been so, there would be no need to have a wanderer do those incarnations and perform these tasks. 3d entities would be able to plan their incarnations in the same manner, and just incarnate and make the objective a reality. this would be even better in that 3d entities would change their own reality. all it would need would be a positively oriented 3d entity who decided to fulfill that mission.
but, apparently such a thing was not enough.
So you are saying that humans and wanderers wanted the same thing, but, the humans finding themselves incapable of achieving their objectives, the wanderers had to step in to fulfill the mission?
This raises a very interesting question. Was the 200 year plan something the Harvesters initiated of their own accord and imposed on the Earth-garden as a means of increasing the harvest? Or was the 200 year plan the Confederation’s response to a collective need from humanity?
I am leaning towards the latter, considering that:
1) Service can only be offered to the extent it is requested. Therefore the Confederation could only offer this plan as means of serving the request of Earth citizens.
2) All happens as a result of free will. The native population must have desired that which the wanderers delivered, because the Confederation can only operate within the free will parameters of the third-density population.
Quote:Unity100 wrote[b]: that depends. being outside the social bias, would require being able to realize that understandings and behaviors outside that social bias exist. either intuitively, or consciously, or through any other means. this could also be possible for a 3d entity, somewhat remembering that different biases, or views can exist due to their past lives, or any kind of connection to subconscious. but then again, this is also a manifestation of going through the veil.
I grok what you’re saying. You make a valid point that in order to step outside the boundaries of what is considered possible, it is helpful (perhaps necessary?) to have some awareness of there being other possibilities not yet manifested.
This ties into why the Confederation advertises mystery – to wake entities up to the possibility of there being more to – or more than – the illusion.
However, there must be other avenues for new or novel configurations of thought to emerge within a given system. The resolutions, “There has got to be a better way to do this.” –or- “There must be a solution to this problem.” are surely enough to motivate a journey of discovery through trial and error and inspiration which leads to the discovery of that which is novel. In other words, it is not necessary to have pre-existing knowledge stashed deep in the mind about other possibilities from previous experience, though that would certainly help.
Quote:[b]Unity100 wrote: it is a larger topic actually.
As most things are.
Quote:Unity100 wrote: actually what i mean was more determination than faith. intention, determination, will.
Would you agree that faith and will are two sides of the same coin? Actually, what do you think about faith?
Quote:Unity100 wrote: cant say students. they were probably having it as a hobby. actually most of the people i saw who were interested in new age literature were like that, leave aside Ra material. a smaller majority were involved in it as an escape.
They are certainly varying degrees of involvement in any pursuit, the spiritual included. I may be reading you incorrectly, but it seems that you do not accept the divine rightness of entities pursuing spirituality with less passion than you feel you possess.
Quote:Quote: ]GLB previously wrote: By the way, there’s something that I read of yours earlier which mentioned that since certain information is in the Ra Material, then it must be knowable and worthwhile and we should consider it.
I would contend that, while the heart of the message is always present in what Ra has to say, and that even in the most technical excerpt there is something to be gleaned, there is information that is frankly not very useful to the mystical quest for unity. Its presence does not connote its significance, it only denotes the fact that Don Elkins wanted to ask about it.
Unity100 responded: it can easily be said that don elkins wanted to ask about any particular thing, because that was something which was wanted to be asked about, for the mystical quest to unity.
'transient' information is already dubbed as transient in answers, by the way.
The point I was trying to make was that just because the information is present in the Ra Material does not mean that it is central to spiritual evolution.
It is a salient point you make that a lot of “transient” information is marked as such. (Btw, “transient” was the word I meant when I said “technical”.) But I believe that Ra marked only the most superfluous material as transient. There are still other details which, while endlessly fascinating, are not, in my opinion, worth spending too much time considering on the journey towards knowing and becoming the One.
To the question, “Why is this particular information in the Ra Material”, there are only two answers which will be true in every case. 1) Don Elkins wanted to know about it. 2) Ra felt that it would not infringe upon the free will of the group to share it.
In neither case is the information shared necessarily significant, even if not marked as “transient”.
As this thread has evolved into a discussion between us, I will continue in that vein and ask this: What is it that you as an incarnate entity hope to achieve? Do you have a defined goal? What is it that you seek? And by what method or methods do you hope to achieve this objective?
Light/Love to you,
GLB
Explanation by the tongue makes most things clear, but love unexplained is clearer. - Rumi