Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another?

[unity100]

I concur about wanderers having bazillions of years of experience under their belt, but I don't see how accumulated experience would be available to them such that penetrating the veil would be easier. In the excerpt below, Ra defines the extent to which the forgetting process can be penetrated.

remember that, despite an incarnated wanderer's body is 3d body, its soul and mind are still its own. so basically, in the mind/body/spirit complex, only the body complex changes. since the brain, the tool that focuses mind into the reality changes, it also limits their various manifestational capabilities.

wanderer is still a higher density entity. its mind probably has deeper connections to roots of mind, its spirit is still vibrating with the density of its own in its core.

leave these aside, his/her aspects have been getting in sync with the 'greater' creation for billions of years. or for too long.

but :

65.19 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=65&ss=1#19
The forgetting process can be penetrated to the extent of the Wanderer remembering what it is and why it is upon the planetary sphere. However, it would be an infringement if Wanderers penetrated the forgetting so far as to activate the more dense bodies and thus be able to live, shall we say, in a god-like manner. This would not be proper for those who have chosen to serve.

the critical point you miss here, is the fact that infringement being talked on here is the wanderer being able to activate and manifest higher bodies, and therefore being able to accomplish 'feats' per se.

this seems to be Ra's particular concern. they also note that while in egypt, if they were doing 1 unit of effect with their words, they were doing 10 units of effect with their presence, or something like that, due to their manifestation.

so, it was basically an infringement like this ; 'i dont understand or cant fathom or maybe dont want to accept what is being said, but the entity is manifesting as X (insert higher density manifestation feat here), so, i should accept'.

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so basically its the kind of 'appearing as gods and therefore people having to accept what you say' kind of thing.

So you are saying that the fact that wanderers (at least those named in the Law of One) tend to pursue scientific and/or spiritually oriented paths is evidence of the fact that the wanderer has easier access to subconscious information?

this seems to be the case for the 200 year something wanderer wave Ra talks about. basically either ideas of equality and freedom, and technological advancement were perpetrated in that time period as far as what we know from history. also, the examples of a few wanderers we know by name fits this well. (franklin, jefferson, tesla). the aim, seems to be freeing people from enslavement, and giving them free time to be able to use their mind for things outside of surviving.

What gave you this idea that the prevailing Confederation policy is to use existing terrestrial systems of thought?

mainly history, and what i read in Ra material in regard to history. the plans of yahweh with annunaki, and then the methods they chose to fix the distortion that caused, Jehoshuah's incarnation and message, buddha, examples are many for this.

This may or may not happen in the life pattern of a wanderer. You describe the situation though as if this is part of some larger plan enacted by the Confederation in which multiple wanderers played a pre-coordinated part.

according to history, yes. probably especially with plans like yahweh did. incarnational programming may have been chosen as totally different. my understanding is, until some time recently, whatever sources are quarantining this planet were giving permission only to plans/incarnations that worked within the existing biases of the planet.

In my understanding, Ra divides the function and purpose of the wanderer along these three broad lines:

1) Lightening the planetary vibration through the doubling affect of love and light
2) Serving as “beacon” or “shepherd”
3) Offering the outer gifts of service unique to the individual wanderer

65.12 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=65&ss=1#12

65.11 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=65&ss=1#11

The first and most important two roles of the wanderer indicate not that the wanderer is here to disseminate “information” (though an individual wanderer may certainly do so), but rather to disseminate energy, to open the heart, breathe, and allow the Creator’s love and light through.

notice that these can all be done through existing biases of the society, or, outside those biases.

Are you referring to saints and notable religious figures within Roman Catholic orders? Though certainly corrupt and mixed in polarity, Catholicism I would argue is not without virtue. It being the monolithic institution of its day, devoted (ostensibly, at least) to the worship of and devotion to God, I am not surprised that Creator-oriented wanderers were attracted to work within its structures. Where else could one live as a monk or a nun in a framework which supported the contemplative life?

Further, it seems to me that you speak of these hierarchical organizations as if they are purely service-to-self in orientation. In my opinion, the churches of all religions have been forces of mixed polarity.

nothing is without virtue. even the most hardened negative society is not without virtue totally. it is questionable that an entity can reach 100% service to self polarity before having to turn about at the early stages of 6d positive even. so, even in the most negative of entities there is trace amounts of virtue.

what matters is, the end result.

in the end, organizations like catholic church has become mechanisms and bastions of control. yes they do charities, they do good deeds. but these strengthen the control of the organization in society.

as long as a societal construct, a machine, something is negative in its structure, it will continue to act negatively in the long run regardless of how much positivity you pour into it.

pouring in too much positivity will probably either break it, or force it to change its structure. then, it wont be the same structure anymore. but, this is a very inefficient method. smothering a negative construct with positivity, instead of observing that the structure is negative, and it needs to be changed from its roots, lest, the energy would go to waste. very unwise.

I would agree in the sense that there is no anything. There is no individual entity, no multiple entities, no space, no time, no Logos, no Third Distortion, no Second Distortion, even no First Distortion.

Of what relevance does this have to the question of infringement, though? We could discuss anything under the sun which could be brought to an abrupt end by saying, “In actuality, that which we are discussing does not exist.”

no, i meant not in that ultimately infinite sense, like, in infinity there exist nothing.

i mean that, all existing entities in this octave and other octaves are part of a huge collective which has a totality somewhere, and therefore choice of each is dependent on the choice of any other, and all others. infinite strings tied together at the top. therefore, the 'free will' is just a baloney. the free will veil and whatnot that is being experimented on by this and a few other logoi in this locale of the galaxy i mean.

I’ll get abstract with you! I tend to see all the manifested, illusory, created material as energy in motion. Everything is moving, bumping into one another, affecting one another. Karma is in motion, past conditioning and tendencies are in motion, thinking is in motion, actions are in motion, galaxies are in motion, incarnation itself is in motion. It’s all a moving, shifting, interacting, infinite sea of holographic portions of the One in motion.

that is a good total approach. the only thing that is missing in it maybe, is the fact that all those in that motion being conscious, and doing choices and affecting each other. rocks, entities, thoughts, everything.

How these moving energies interact is the infinite variety of the Creator watching itself live. Will a rock be worn to nothing by a river? Will a family of birds survive the storm? Will this individual choose love or fear? Will this complicated set of collective ideas and emotions work with or collide with the complicated set of collective ideas and emotions of the neighboring culture?

i would replace 'the creator' with 'we'. and i would take it as 'have we, the birds included in that 'we', decided together that the birds survive the storm ? have we, rock and the river included, decided together that the rock will be worn out by the river ? and so on.

Those moving energies are possessed of free will. In the less conscious entities – those of first and second densities, that free will is, at first, seemingly random, then somewhat directed though unconsciously so, and then free will is seen for the resource that it is and is used and directed by the conscious entity.

i very much think the first and second density entities have a totality in some distant octave. even if not in this one. or, had a totality. even in that case, they have a totality in the totality of the experiential creative culmination of this creation of this octave.

Is this rhetorical or are you asking me something? Either way, I’m not understanding the questions.

it was rhetorical. there is insane amount of information contained in Ra. maybe, they were given to give a chance to atlantean adepts that screwed up last time. just like, how tesla's info enabling the manufacture of ufo weapons is probably another chance given to maldek and atlantis people not to screw up this time.

Why should there be a “should” in there? Why a qualifying criteria?

very simple. would a person who is not willing to risk the possibility of death, or not willing to let go of the firm ground under his/her feet, become a stunt pilot ? would it be logical for that person, saying that s/he would accept no chances of death, or, s/he wants to fly, but also wants to have the firm ground under his/her feet while flying ?

it wouldnt. thus, anyone who is after Ra material should be willing to go openly as far as they can, and not to prevent anyone else who wants to go further, from going further.

Where is “here”? The forums?

yes.

I definitely agree about the benefit of fellow seekers. Though the spiritual quest is ultimately a solo one, friends along the journey are invaluable and, in actuality, accelerate and catalyze the journey.

i dont think spiritual quest is a solo one. not with the 3 aides everyone gets incarnated with, the mandatory societal complex in 4 and 6th densities, and becoming a totality in 7th. actually, i very much think that all this 'i made it', or 'i succeeded' or 'i did it on my own' things are all baloney. nothing happens without aid or supervision from everything. one cant even stay alive. considering how there are many principles governing functioning of bodies and there are being probably principles/entities governing and watching the function of these principles.

But what you are saying sounds as if you are issuing a complaint. Do I understand you correctly? If so, do you have a specific target for this complaint? Are you saying that this is happening on the forums?

it happens everywhere and this forum is no exception. the situation in this forum is much better due to care from participants and caretakers though.

Maybe you’re right about the consequences which such actions have for others, maybe you’re wrong. But why so concerned? Isn’t the self our domain and jurisdiction? Work on the self, I say, work on the self and let others be as they are, so long as they are not infringing, or, in the case of the forums, violating the guidelines.

i believe there is 'us'. the failure of someone else, is failure of self, and the failure of self, is the failure of everyone else. though we cant grab entities by the throat and make them succeed, we should maintain some level of concern for everyone, actually everything.

Unity100 wrote: in actuality, anyone is responsible with any choice they make. as per the law of attraction and law of responsibility, if someone is here, s/he is responsible with his/her choices. and all their consequences. s/he is responsible himself/herself if what s/he reads in Ra text or here engages in any kind of paranormal experience that may not be so desirable for himself/herself, responsible for being able and advanced enough to be able to discern any truth that resonates to him/her, than anything that does not, or any kind of phoney information or condescending, patronizing, patriarchical or paternal sounding, belovingly coercing kind of views/communique, or those who reinforce existing societal biases by bundling them with love or knowledge - actually any kind of minimum requirement and dedication for going on an advanced journey.

tho, actually, these merry wanderers probably already have sufficient protection from whatever sources that are aiding them in their journey, and therefore will be protected from any kind of extreme results, unless they are actually sufficiently advanced inside to be held responsible and to do things by knowing them. so, this would reduce the second angle to the biases/conditionings preventing advanced seekers from seeking issue.

I’m not quite getting what you’re saying in these two paragraphs. Seriously, I’ve reread them a few times and just as it seems meaning begins to dawn on my feeble brain, it dissipates. Could you rephrase and sum up these two paragraphs? I apologize but but I’m just not getting it.

i tried to mean various things about the law of responsibility. anything that these entities who are going around in Ra material like a hobby can encounter. from psychic attacks to metaphysical occurrences, this and that. any potential consequence, some of which can have quite an impact.

Haha!! Finally! I’ve read many interesting thoughts from you in this post, but nothing which directly spoke to my question which you were ostensibly responding to.

the post was not complete at the point you made this post. i noted that already at the end of my post.

SO, your conclusion and response to my question is that the veiled third-density entity is not in the same position as Ra in terms of being able to infringe on others by sharing information.

apparently, no, as long as you dont manifest a light body and start flying around.

but then again, the time is already up, energies are picking up, and that part of the show is ending, and therefore, i very much think that even these wont be an infringement in near future.

i also think that Ra is way too sensitive, and the understanding of this locale's logoi is way too contradictory in regard to this free will business :

you create a veil in order to provide a 'free will' by severing connections to higher selves and aetheral influences, but, then you have to negate that veil by various means that actually channel immense energy and information to the planetary sphere so that the experiential nexus, so that the experience can actually go on without getting destroyed by destruction of the planet. you first give some supposed free will, only to take that supposed free will back with measures that are needed to prevent total destruction of the experience.

ironically, the main group or groups that are doing that fixing, are the group or groups which were found to be 'having problems' in 6d, because they were aided by external sources during their 3d experience and had a speedy 3d experience. we are sure of the name of one of these, they are Ra. (65+million wanderers info in Ra material, and their origin). i suspect group that aided the atlanteans had also a similar aid in their 3d experience.

this is one of the reasons i conclude the failure of this veil plan.

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i didnt merge the two posts, because these two posts are replies to blocks in posts of people that have been posted in times way too different than each other.