(07-05-2010, 09:36 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: gree, an entity can, I would imagine, receive any kind of information from any kind of source provided the right conditions are met. In the L/L group's case, those right conditions included: certain magical protocol, training in channeling, fidelity in service, harmony, trust, and support (along with a host of other contributing factors). These conditions met, they were able to communicate across the boundaries of three succeeding densities. Other information-acquiring methods include crystal-gazing, dreaming, psychic ability, intuitive deduction, out-of-body experiences, transpersonal awareness, and paying the CEO of a company about to fail to let you know when to sell your stocks.
you forgot to include any kind of links any given soul has to the roots of mind, or, whichever complex s/he was with on a soul level, however closely aligned the individual to various energies is, and so on.
as Ra noted, there are as many ways as the entities' imaginations to penetrate the veil.
Quote:If I remember correctly, Ra never said that wanderers have greater access to information than do natives to third density. Can you direct me to where in the Law of One Ra says this?
this piece is not from about Ra. this is my own conclusion, especially drawing on the block above - ie, ways to receive information.
there are infinite ways to receive information, since, the veil is a mechanism that makes it harder for the conscious mind to contact the subconscious.
it doesnt matter how this is penetrated. once its penetrated any kind of thought, information and so on can pass forward.
since the mechanism is as thus, it wouldnt be a prerequisite to be a wanderer to penetrate it actually. any entity having a correct configuration that can have easy access or flow of information in between conscious and the subconscious. any kind of configuration.
however, my conclusion is, and i think rightly so too, because wanderers have bazillions of years in between their belts working on, in and with quite delicate aspects of existence, if they havent particularly limited themselves heavily not to be able to do so, the should have easier time penetrating the veil.
and it is probably so, because from the percentages Ra tells us about the differing ranks of awareness to their situation, wanderers seem to be starting already with some kind of penetration out of the box. had there been no penetration, they would already start with perfect fit within the societal mind as they are born.
it is also highly possible that most of these wanderers go to scientific or spiritual pursuits. the wanderer wave of 200 years Ra spoke about, for providing amenities and advancement (apparently) to mankind so that people could have time to actually spare to themselves and think about stuff tells us a great deal about this. there has been tremendous, phenomenonal technical progress within that era. some of them we already know to be wanderers, benjamin franklin (curiously he is also a scientist), nikola tesla, are 2 of them. i remember albert einstein as being a wanderer too, but i may be wrong, he may have received his information from confederate sources despite being a 3rd density entity himself. however, this kinda would also make him to be functioning precisely similar to wanderers.
actually, the very factor making wanderers such easy thinkers and inventors should be the closer ties to the roots of the mind itself.
Quote:I agree with your basic point here (though I would argue some of the nuances).
So while there are no true boundaries and while the third-density entity may, through will and faith, retrieve the needed understanding to any question, would you contend that the human has the overview that Ra effortlessly possesses by virtue of their position along the evolutionary timeline?
I would say “no”. Though not enlightened myself, and not having met an enlightened entity, I’ve never heard of any teacher in recorded history having espoused a philosophy or cosmology quite like the Law of One (though I’ve crossed paths with virtually every element of the Law of One in other philosophies, excepting the viability of the STS path).
Presupposing that there have been entities who have known and become the One in planet Earth's history (as I believe there have), why has nothing quite like the Law of One been communicated?
well, this last paragraph is a good point, and its also a very important subject.
firstly, we dont have sufficient information to talk about what kind of information atlantean students, egyptian students and south american students received. these are unknowns to us, we only know some about the late work of Ra in egypt with the tarot cards in order to teach the Law of One. this was way after the atlantean episode.
so, it is quite possible that information may have been communicated that straight.
secondly, there is this - it seems that whatever sources are governing this planet lately, have been under the opinion that they should use already existing thought, belief patterns existing on the world in order to teach/learn. ie,
there are already religions , a wanderer incarnates, s/he awakens, and then starts to disseminate information/philosophy within the framework of that religion.
this was a very, very naive and dangerous method actually, and this is a subject matter in itself that i mentioned before; flowing usable information/energy into any kind of existing thought/belief pattern without fixing the fundamental issues within that pattern only leads to strengthening of that pattern.
a good example of this is, how various wanderers have reinforced various religious hierarchical organizations, giving it more authority and power through the work they have done. their good deeds, miracles were used by these organizations. there was some good done, but, these led to the hierarchy gaining more power. in the end, it took doing the total opposite to free the masses from the controls of these organizations, ironically, by waves of wanderers again. but then again this seems to have created an inertia in itself, which shows itself in our current daily lives, especially in regard to spirituality.
Quote:So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that a) information may be gained and consciously used for destructive ends, b) information may be ignorantly mis-used, resulting in the destruction of self or other, and c) information may be used to polarize negatively.
None of this, in my humble opinion, necessarily means that the human may infringe on the free will of another in the way Ra could by doing the learning for another.
I couldn’t agree more with the notion that there are consequences for everything we do, down to every breath and every beat of the heart. We cannot avoid affecting others. Even if we were to retreat to a cave, never to see another human being, we would energetically be participating in and contributing to the planetary vibration. Thusly, any attempts to avoid affecting the situation would be made in vain. We cannot help but affect the situation. In fact, we hope to affect the situation. The wanderer is present on Earth to do just that, to respond to the call of sorrow and lighten the planetary vibration.
We of course wish to be careful about precisely how we affect others, our environment, and ourselves. Ideally we will affect the creation in alignment with our highest understanding such that only positively oriented service to others is rendered.
tho this would be a very advanced topic in itself, i would say that there is actually no free will.
existence seems to be an endless dance of sentient energies upwards, to even higher frequencies and existences, and unfortunately any action by any entity done in any distant part of existence, not even in this particular universe, affects all others' fates, lives, choices. basically, if existence is an infinite sea, it is impossible for any focus point's vibrations, waves, not to affect the whole picture itself, and all other focal points.
and when i look at the concepts of higher self, parallel universes, and mind/body/spirit complex totality as a higher self of the 6d higher self, all it seems to me that the whole question is which part of the fragmented ultimate totality will shoulder the burden of living what part of the total experience to be lived ; one may be taking the responsibility to live in a negative experience set, one a positive, one may be taking on the path of nonveiled 3, 4 to direct 8 d route etc.
actually i made very broad and contrasting examples to illustrate this - the parallel universe experiences may actually be exactly identical except in a certain aspect of a particular part of their road. and that difference may even look as a non difference to an outside observer, another entity. it basically all depends on how balanced an entity is.
i remember Ra saying the more balanced an entity is, the less is the need to experience parallel possibility nexuses.
so that means, the more balanced a mind/body/spirit complex totality is, the less will be the need to experience parallel universes.
thus, i very much think free will is something that is beyond illusion, in that regard.
Quote:Yet, the only way I can see that the human can possibly breach free will in the way Ra could would be for other humans to attribute supernatural power and authority to that individual. In that case, the individual’s communicated understanding – if not carefully delivered so as to protect free will – might supplant the understanding of those listening.
However, I have yet to encounter an individual of this stature, in my personal interactions or on this forum. So, again, if you have something you would like to share that you feel is of an “advanced” nature, I humbly request that you share it. Or at least provide an example.
Should it be discerned that infringement is taking place, the moderators can simply say, “Unity100, ixnay on the infringementway”
this is a good topic that needs some clearing. i will approach it from some important angles, and i also i will use myself as an example to examine this topic.
firstly a very important practical consideration. observe the case of Jehoshuah (real name of jesus of nazareth as Ra called him) :
if any of you have done research on early christianity or late roman empire history from unbiased sources, or have watched recent documentaries on researches which were done recently, you will probably remember that his teachings and philosophy was quite spiritual and otherworldly in nature, with the total refusal of materialism, even the scorning of bodily incarnation and longing for death to be 'one' again, about extreme sharing, love and quite simply, the similar stuff what we are mainly having in new age literature today. the teachings were very popular with the rich, elite seekers in caanan, levant and asia minor in early days of christianity, with its advanced approach to these subjects.
but then again, it was also very dangerous for roman empire, because it basically threw off every one of its fundamentals into the hearth ; materialism, slavery, elitism, many gods that could easily be managed (despite having many gods and beliefs is not inherently bad) and so on. this is probably one of the most important reasons that early christians were prosecuted very badly, despite most of them belonging to elite classes and being rich.
but, as time went on and the followers remained a slowly increasing number, the early christians increasingly started to cater to the masses, by bringing the concepts to them in 'understandable' and simpler ways. it worked indeed, and the followers increased rapidly. after all, it was much logical to communicate the message in simpler terms, simpler ways the masses could understand.
but, naturally, the simpler 'divide your bread in this way and eat it this way, do something this way and do that that way' kind of messages, have gained traction, instead of the advanced teachings Jehoshuah was giving. with that, it was very easy for the fledgling religious hierarchy under control of the sovereign emperors to clamp down on the various sects, monasteries that still followed the early advanced and rather materially detrimental approach of early christians that still dotted caanan and egypt, while establishing control over the now dominant 'simpler' message.
result, was an even firmer control hierarchy at the hands of elite - this time through both material and religious. it has become a clutch that world couldnt get rid of 1700 years, if you count from 200 AD. 200 ad date is of course approximate, since the traces of hierarchical organization lies in much earlier than that, but the dominance is still a few hundred years further away. but, by this date pretty much it was done for as a momentum as far as i see.
this, is just a simple case example in which how the message of wanderers, even if planned very carefully and even having support of a whole societal complex behind it (remember the case of yahweh and the annunaki business), can easily be cramped by elites and rendered to their own end.
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this gives us our first angle of approach :
it is of utmost importance that any information that has been given by any channel is communicated they exactly are, without trying to cater to existing biases, conditionings, dogmas, political views, habits of existing society or any of its parts, for any reason, so that the message wont get twisted, changed, dumbed down and then rendered to any other end.
think of it as a proper, open and pure communication of blue ray ; just as in the definition of the 5d, communicating and sharing one's self or message regardless of other selves' reaction, freely.
and, in another sense, communicating the utmost, purest message any given entity can muster with its current mind/body/spirit complex situation, chakras, openings and biases.
purest of possible. not dumbed down, not censored, not clogged or barred for any kind of cause or reason.
this is the most important issue of all the angles pertaining to this particular planet and its particular, very quirky and problematic 3d experience nexus. before, it was rather a losing fight, because it was much easier for the established elite segments to suppress and twist any message, lest they had any power. now, there is internet. from now on, it is impossible to clamp down information. unless, the entire planet goes totally naive and plays along the elites.
secondly, ra is advanced information. not only Ra noted this, but also many others dealing and involved in spiritual literature have noted this.
its not philosophical only, delivering obscure and generic, broad stuff that you can fit anything into, like 'your poo is zen'. it straightly, plainly, directly tells what it wants to tell. it talks about creation as it came to be from what Ra has learned, and it talks about paths and non paths, and what was before those paths.
its not 'love thy neighbor' only, like the most of the new age literature or channelings. it doesnt say 'love each other and everything will just pop, and be alright'. there are psychic attacks in it, there are information related to negative sources, there are even information telling how the 4d love, 4d entities are ineffective in the wake of other entities' closed chakras, blockages. it says that 5d entity and on is a co creator, despite noting that the ticket out from 3d is love. either love of all, or love of only self.
it is not spiritual only, talking about the oneness of existence, and how everything is one and whatnot. it gives out directly usable technical information. pyramids, queen's chamber, king's room. a sufficiently balanced entity is being a portable king's room. how to disrupt the violet ray of an entity and try to balance its chakras, unblock blockages, heal it. remember that anything used for healing can be used for breaking. it also gives immense amount of info regarding archetypical mind of this logos.
how much mileage do you think it is left to being able to create lifeforms ? pyramids given, energy information given, archetypical mind of logos given ?
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that gives our second angle of approach ; ra material is not for those who are not needing, not seeking, or not wanting to take the responsibility of it. if an entity is reading Ra books, s/he should already have done the metaphorical 'death and rebirth' choice in his/her mind, dedicating himself or herself to seeking that kind of information. leave aside being here.
actually, being here may be more secure for an entity because there are other people who actually can remedy some of the impact of the information in the books because they may have lived the same experiences before. while alone, its you and the books. and whatever kind of link opens to the subconscious, or any other kind of channel that can do anything, in whichever way its possible.
unfortunately, there seem to be many people who have not done this death and rebirth choice. for many, it seems to be a kind of hobby, a way to feel some needed energies, a curiosity, or an extension of the existing love-subject-only spiritual literature/channelings. there is nothing wrong in that, except that there are times in which they are unfortunately attempting to prevent the teach/learning of advanced information because they want their biases to be accepted as paramount, or want them to be included, or want them to be the basis, or want them in anywhere in the framework.
they are wanting their views to be accepted, instead of their own selves be accepted. and, they are expecting others to change their views to suit with their own biases. it is not only wrong, its also spiritually unwise - anything they prevent successfully from being shared, knowingly or unknowingly, will become an inertia for them to fix. directly or indirectly. with all its consequences.
this goes in conjunction with the first angle, and they reinforce the other.
in actuality, anyone is responsible with any choice they make. as per the law of attraction and law of responsibility, if someone is here, s/he is responsible with his/her choices. and all their consequences. s/he is responsible himself/herself if what s/he reads in Ra text or here engages in any kind of paranormal experience that may not be so desirable for himself/herself, responsible for being able and advanced enough to be able to discern any truth that resonates to him/her, than anything that does not, or any kind of phoney information or condescending, patronizing, patriarchical or paternal sounding, belovingly coercing kind of views/communique, or those who reinforce existing societal biases by bundling them with love or knowledge - actually any kind of minimum requirement and dedication for going on an advanced journey.
it is not the responsibility of anyone else, in regard to this second point.
tho, actually, these merry wanderers probably already have sufficient protection from whatever sources that are aiding them in their journey, and therefore will be protected from any kind of extreme results, unless they are actually sufficiently advanced inside to be held responsible and to do things by knowing them. so, this would reduce the second angle to the biases/conditionings preventing advanced seekers from seeking issue.
third, there is the spiritual 'legality' issue.
if we take Ra's material, any entity that has incarnated through the veil and penetrated the veil is free to do anything with it. it doesnt become an infringement, if one does it by incarnating, and penetrating the veil. else, the activities of all wanderers in the 200 year long wanderer wave, and all the activities past and present of the 65 million + wanderers incarnated circa 1980 (and probably on, more and more) would be infringement. and, the very fact that the Ra material being published in godknowshowmany countries, would be also infringing beyond imagination.
(continued)
thusly, anything that happens here, regardless of who does it, and how they do it, is legitimate in the understanding/plan of this locale, apparently. orions got past the veil through an open portal, that came up randomly. wanderers penetrated the veil and gave out messages. some adepts remembered atlantean trainings and exploited them. or used them for good. (cayce readings)
therefore apparently there are no issues in regard to this, as long as the person had went through incarnation process and went past the veil by any means.
four, 'infringement' in my standards
my standards are too high, and maybe infringement is the wrong word here. or maybe, this logos's standards are too low. i think that any choice made affects everyone else, any information shared changes a lot of things, not only in the short run, but in the long run, towards eternity. there is no escaping that, no forgiveness no karma, no other kind of thing. cause results in effect and effect is another cause.
thus, the channeling ll group did with Ra, ra giving them information in a non infringing manner (in regard to this locale's standards), all those bartholomews, carlos castenadas, silver birches, edgar cayces, this that, all those material, all the channelings that have been done and all the information has been given out for any reason, changed the continuum. technology given, tesla's inventions, internet, the transistor, anything.
there is no dodging that. there is no evading the effects and results of any action.
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this is another angle ;
there is no 'free will' or anything like that. all that matters is which cause-effect chain one wants to take on the responsibility of, and in what manner. this is the extent of free will.
therefore, anything is an 'infringement' in my standards.
positions of anyone aiding or participating in these discussions here, channelings there, doing any kind of work
as per the above angle, everything will have consequences. anyone participating or aiding or providing for such discussions as we do here, or publishing Ra material, or recommending it to anyone, or participating any kind of work anywhere should be fully ready to accept all its consequences.
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the ideal would be not to have this veil, the seeds (entities) of any given logos grow up in 3d under the influxes of their own logos that they came out from, with strong connection to their own higher selves, therefore seeing their own biases, preferences deep down inside themselves and navigating their route as thus, efficiently and effectively. there should have been no extra interference like any kind of measures, wanderers incarnating, 'plans' implemented to do anything, spread any kind of message, philosophy or anything else.
the practical reality is, a veil was put into place to prevent 'infringement' from any kind of influx (and ironically very own higher self of the entity too), however it then came up such that the veil was turned into a bullet ridden bucket with all the 'plans' that were allowed to be implemented by various external and well meaning sources, as well as rape by ill intending sources, also wanderers coming in and incarnating and doing A LOT of things. ironically in the end the situation have become such that, the veil became a mechanism that prevents connection with an entity's own higher self very effectively, but, allows all kinds of other influxes and influences due to the above events. unintended, unexpected, but the practical consequence. this is maybe a much bigger infringement on any kind of free will, than a nonveiled situation was.
five - the imminency
time is up. the game is afoot. it is over... there is 1.5 years approx. to the full alignment of the planet to 4d vibrations in 2011 winter solstice, according to what quo says. even if we didnt take quo for this, the time Ra talked about as 'approximately 30 years' is almost up. give, take 1-2 years at most. even if we didnt know that, we have a lot of people waking up, or being woken up, as you can see in the society, and very specifically, from the stories people share in this forum, every other day.
this means that, 4d energy, which is something that causes thoughts to become things, the opening stages of magical, will be flowing in probably unhampered.
it is not certain that, what will happen to the veil. some expect it to pop and go away immediately just like that, but that is highly unlikely. if one remembers what Ra said about how entities who are not used to facing their own selves may go mad when facing the 4d energy, and also the fact that sudden lifting of the veil would be very tolling for any entity that is on this planet regardless of their density (4,5,6 or above) due to the sudden change, and considering there are 7 billion entities on this planet, it comes out clear that it would be a gamble to pop the veil open just like that.
very probably, the veil will go away gradually, and especially according to the will and desire of the entities who can make it go away for themselves. it will be easier to penetrate the veil as time goes on, for those who want it to happen. this will give time for the 3d entities who cant face themselves yet the time to live out and die, and 4d and over entities the gradual opening so that they wont meet a sudden shock due to whatever reason.
but, in either cases, there is STILL going to be problems. many problems if veil suddenly pops out, and gradual, constant problems if it slowly goes away. the entities incarnated will have to deal with this. especially the ones who are into spiritual studies, awakening, and had done some mileage on their work. the nature of problems/issues any entity can face, is total guesswork and unique probably to many groups or people or settings. however, it is highly possible that they will face these problems. the least of problems we can easily guess is the dormant, dominant biases, conditionings of the current societal mind, and the orange tint of the planetary consciousness. whatever is causing that orange tint ...
so, it is very important that anyone who can, should study advanced information earnestly, so that they can not only be stable and in the know when the time comes, and also can help others.
this is the final angle i cant think of as of now. its probably important because of the peculiar and uncommon backstory of this planet's experience.