The Movement from the Experience into the Significator

[ricdaw]

I am enjoying this thread. A lot.

[quote=ricdaw]Emperor looks at the state of the landscape (Card 3 Empress) and the characteristics thrown out of card 10 (wheel) and begins to perceive a pattern; that there is purpose expressed there.

I actually mean more than this when I say responsibility. The Emperor is sovereign over his realm. Therefore, if there is conflict or malcontent or any kind of disharmony, it is his business to sort things out by listening and adjudicating. In terms of the human experience, this is analogous to emotional processing and the restructuring of beliefs. In terms of processing mental catalyst (which includes both contradictory beliefs and unbalanced emotions) it is not enough to simply recognize a pattern.

I associate responsibility with the Emperor because it is only through carefully and consciously taking responsibility for all of your thoughts, beliefs, desires and emotions that the emotional knots in the unconscious mind can be loosened and eventually dissolved. This process lies firmly within the mind, for therapists facilitate this process without ever invoking any spiritual experiences..

I accept and agree that the Emperor has a heavy burden. My bias is mental, so recognizing a pattern is how I personally process emotions and restructure beliefs. Your mileage may vary. You and I are pretty much in agreement (using different words) for Card 4. There is a lot of work in this card (Emperor).

I put a lot of the work of discovery on the poor Emperor.

And I burden him further with the work of acceptance and forgiveness.

LOL. We have the same understandings, but put them in different cards. I put the whole kitten and kaboodle of acceptance and forgiveness in card 11 (Strength). Acceptance and forgiveness are emotional energies associates with Body, not Mind. So I believe acceptance and forgiveness are the essence of Strength. We are in the same column of cards here, so its just a tiny thing. Let me ask, what is your primary meaning for card 11 (Strength)?

But the Hanged Man is (IMO) a juxtaposition to de-emphasize the Body. We humans associate too much with our bodies and can be very limiting. The "lesson" of this card is to free ourself from the body as an end in and of itself. We are not down here for our body. We are in a body to work on spiritual development. It's a relatively simple, albeit life changing kind of concept.

You're right that the body needs some de-emphasis in our society, but at the same time it also needs lots of appreciation and acceptance. The body is inborn with as many biases as the mind. We call them "genes".

I think that Mind is the Maker. So genetic bias is actually a mental creation of a body catalyst. I don't think the ancient Egyptians would undestand the concept of genes. So, to keep the cards focused, I would think that the preincarnative "biases," even thouse expressed in the body, are part of the Hierophant's essential core meaning. Mind builds the body. (Justice talks about the inate intelligence of the body.) Anyway, I guess it doesn't matter which card we put genetic bias into so long as it's there somewhere.

I'm not sure that we are in agreement that humans need to be "freed" from the body as an end in and of itself. The body is to be experienced--as are all things. The purpose of life is not to evolve; the purpose of life is to experience.

Ra said as much, life is for experience. However, I think the tarot is a specific spiritual lesson that life really is to evolve. I don't see a card that says "experience life to its fullest" but actually its opposite. The Devil card is about people "experiencing life" as if it were all that there is. And that card is the starting point for the rest of the deck. As a teaching tool, the tarot, I think, is pretty single minded: we are here to evolve. It actually discourages experience for experience sake (or takes that as a given as being the starting point for the larger lesson).

Evolution is merely the method by which experience occurs. We evolve because we are tired of the same old experiences and want something more satisfying. This is the same reason that children move from one interest to another in the course of their development.

Not in agreement here. We evolve because that's why we exist here at all. The whole reason to be a person in 3D earth is to acquire the polarity to get to 4th, then onward to reunification with the creator. The tarot is a spiritual teaching of soul evolution. It is not a "live life to its fullest" teaching deck. We evolve because it is imperative, not because we are bored. (Though that is one way to get the cart moving.)

So, to me, Sun and Hanged Man are simpler concepts, more like placeholders in the column. That may be my bias. Maybe the concept of reincarnation is the one that hit me hardest. And once I "got" that, the fact that the body is just a temporary vehicle seemed kind of obvious. So Hanged Man has seemed relatively straight forward. The Sun might be very charged for someone who came to tarot from organized religion. The concept that God is okay with what we call "evil" might be a very charged concept The most self-serving dictator is loved too? Really? There is no hell? No eternal punishment for that kind of stuff? So the Sun is a great card to ponder when you read the daily news. These people doing (supposed) bad/evil things are loved as much as the saints!?!

We clearly disagree about the Sun. I do not associate this archetype with the One Infinite Creator. The reason for this is that the OIC is not part of 3rd density experience. All of these archetypes represent something within us, but the OIC as such is not part of that experience--it stands well outside 3rd density as the foundation of all existence. Rather, the divine within is a more resonant interpretation of this card for me.

I don't see a seeker in the Sun. I see the Seeker in the Fool.

Good point. Perhaps my terms are too loose here. To me, the Sun is the pure, harmonic, sacred experience of the spirit in its fullness. In those moments when we grasp that there is nothing to do and nowhere to go, that we are always and ever embraced by the infinite love of the divine acting through the all-wise, all-loving inner Logos, in those very moments, we are resonating with archetype 19. The Sun is the inner temple where we sometimes find ourselves, but would like to always be.

What you describe here I associate with the final card (Universe). It is about the reintegration of self with the creator.

So the spiritual seeker is seeking to find the temple and to learn to carry it wherever it should find itself. The Fool seems to me to be a seeker in search of an adventure. But the spiritual self, depicted by the Sun, is the part of the self that has a gravity; it pulls us in, whether we are conscious of it or not. In response to this pull, we seek in a spiritual sense. We rarely know what we seek or how close to us it really is, hence "Few there are which are successful in grasping the light of the sun."

What you describe here I also associate with the final card (Universe). The Great Way cards are the exhortation cards, they are the cards that "pull" us.

Sometimes good things happen (white dog) but they lead to an easy life and the dark pyramid is not explored (or noticed). A person is lead into complacency and does not strive in that lifetime to "see." Sometimes bad things happen (dark dog) and the catalyst of that leads to seeing the white pyramid, and seeing that spirit brought you that unpleasant dog on purpose.

What you are describing here is either bodily or mental catalyst--probably mental, since your associations match the black and white servants of the Hierophant. Bodily catalyst is either comfortable or uncomfortable and mental is either preferred or not. The spirit does not interpret "good" things or "bad" things in these senses. It may be hidden to itself, as in the case of the Matrix, #15, but that which is hidden is only viewed as "bad" by those who are spiritually asleep.

I think the tarot is a deck of key lessons for the spiritually asleep. The spiritually awake don't need the cards. I assume that the intent of the cards is to reach the spiritually asleep, and thus use the good dog/bad dog interpretation.

The Lightning experience (#16) usually brings with it catalyst for body and mind (discomfort and "bad" things happening), but these are peripheral. The center of the Lightning's action is to reveal the terrain of the Matrix. The Lightning opens the spiritual eye to greater truths, whether they are truths about the universe or truths about the self. This sudden awakening changes everything. People who have these experiences normally find within themselves a brand new motivation, something deeper, more fulfilling, more spiritual. If you haven't experienced this yourself, then surely you know someone who has. Something happens (perhaps an NDE or and OBE) and a person just can't go on living the standard life. She is compelled to do something meaningful.

Beautiful sentiment. I have had the Lightening experience.

To the extent that the Seeker sees all catalyst (both white and dark dogs) as revealing important life lessons, a person can remain balanced and progress quickly between those two towers to the greater truth beyond/between them.

This suggests that there ought to be more archetypes to identify what lies "beyond/between." My interpretation of these Pyramids is that they represent the Great Work, one STO, the other STS.

Nevertheless, while seeing life lessons in the experience is important, it is still only a mental experience. The spiritual experience is a much different animal. Once the mind is sufficiently balanced, then the work of the spirit begins. But this work is predicated on the assumption that you've already cultivated habits of mindfulness, acceptance, forgiveness, a synthetic interpretation of reality, AND the wisdom and temperance necessary for bodily balance.

So what is left? Why the Great Work, of course.

I agree with you about the Great Work, but that's what cards 7, 14 and 21 express/explicate. The Moon wasn't intended to carry that much water. The Moon is an early lesson for spirit. The advanced lesson you talk about are at 7,14 and 21.

What is this? That depends upon the person. The spirit is only comfortable in a spontaneous environment: you must allow the spirit to move through your mind and your body into manifestation. Artists are often able to tap into this experience easily. In the process of releasing the bonds of material attachment, what remains is the undeniable pull of the deep inner drive, which I call the vocation or the calling. It is only in undertaking this work that each of us is capable of serving in our greatest capacity...but it is frightening. It requires complete faith, utter abandon, a willingness to forgo all security and certainty, under the assumption that the spirit is leading us aright. The willingness do engage in this experiment, which most people around you will think is completely absurd, is the catalyst of the spirit.

True this. But the concept is from cards 7 and 14, not the Moon.

The Moon is all about becoming aware of the shadow's hidden agenda. You can easily see the consequences of not doing so: every false guru or self-important yoga teacher is an example of a person who attempted to walk in the faith of the spirit, but failed to discern between heart and shadow.

I can see that the Moon could express a warning about false gurus. That is consistent with the card. But I still don't understand your intent or meaning of the word "shadow." It implies a psychological characteristic that is not part of the tarot lexicon. The tarot speaks to veiling, not to any active attempt by the universe, or an inner psychological demon, to deceive.

...I did not intend to go on so long. I hope that clarifies what I am attempting to describe here.

Not too long at all! Good conversation!