02-23-2009, 03:17 PM
Thanks for a thoughtful response to a rather rambling and speculative post. Well, here's another one...
If free will is a part of the process, which I believe is hinted at, then that would imply some quantitative change as well. Also, those who repeat 3D would go start another complex elsewhere, no? It's just speculation and not very important, true, but I have to wonder what happens to the record of the earthly experiences of those who go on, as it seems to be predicted, towards different places.
I'm certainly looking forward to the telepathy part, and discovering the collective archetypal heritage would also be very cool. My issue here is more the stewing pot of all of our 3D incarnational experiences combined. There is so much I will never be able to fully understand within 3D, and that is fine. I may be a little too attached to the idea of understanding. 4D isn't really supposed to be the realm of understanding either, I hear. But maybe knowing more of the deeper parts of our collective identity will do it.
The identity gained stays with the entity, or stays with the complex? The entitiy of the complex, or the entity of the individual? Sorry for being dense - can't wait for telepathy to take hold.
I am fully aware that the STS/STO discussion is separate from "good/evil", although there may be a correlation. I am also aware that in the end there is no good or evil, it all just is, and maybe not even that. However, I am a human being, and as a dedicated player in this field I must acknowledge that there are actions that are not "wrong" only because we are told so. Anyone with an open heart will react strongly to seeing others getting hurt. Anyone with a truly open heart will actively seek not to hurt others.
Allright, I'll take a blunt example. A child is being thrown live into a fire where the remains of its parents are already smoldering. It'll save a bullet, right? Unfortunately this is not a hypothetical example. What's important here is to separate judging the act from judging the actor. It is not hard to forgive all those involved, seeing how the perpetrator is easily hurting him(/her, less commonly)self more in the long run than the child and its parents are hurt. I can forgive; I can love all those involved, but I cannot understand.
Reading the Ra material resonates with me in that we do not all, through outer workings of karma, reincarnate our way through all potential experiences. For an open-hearted, rather naive entity just wanting to help, it would be pretty easy to slip into the role of the somewhat habitual martyr - murderers and victims don't necessarily trade places. I think it's fairly unusual that they do. From reading the Ra/Quo materials it also seems like the belligerence and brutality of this particular region of 3D took many within the creation somewhat by surprise. It still takes me by surprise, even though I remember getting killed by groups of people on at least three occasions.
The gritty, hands-on acts of genocide are in potential within all of us, and within the whole creation, or none of it would ever have happened. I cannot understand it, but I think it's very important that it be understood. If not here, then elsewhere. My issue here is not so much with the past, as with the future. This is our potential, and I don't really want to see it happening again.
This is one of the great shadows within our present collective. How, as a collective, can we face and balance this shadow? Or am I blowing this out of proportion?
Yes, this exactly is my issue. This 3rd density has been rather dense.
(02-21-2009, 09:59 PM)jeremy6d Wrote: More or less. I go back and forth on whether Ra meant that we were (1) in the process of achieving social memory, or (2) in the process of further developing our existing complex. Either way, it's not too important a distinction, but I do find the idea of social memory as a quantitative change rather than a qualitative one intriguing.
If free will is a part of the process, which I believe is hinted at, then that would imply some quantitative change as well. Also, those who repeat 3D would go start another complex elsewhere, no? It's just speculation and not very important, true, but I have to wonder what happens to the record of the earthly experiences of those who go on, as it seems to be predicted, towards different places.
(02-21-2009, 09:59 PM)jeremy6d Wrote: At a certain level of development, yes. I'm not sure mere telepathy is what is so powerful about social memory, though. Ra also mentions being able to access the roots of the planetary or race mind. We would start to discover our collective archetypal heritage that is now only an undercurrent to our incarnate experiences presently. These are deep parts of our collective identity that fly below our individual radars, and having a conscious experience of them would be deeply powerful, I'd think. Social memory is more than the parts knowing each other; it is the whole knowing itself, and the parts recognizing the identity of the whole and their seamless integration in it.
I'm certainly looking forward to the telepathy part, and discovering the collective archetypal heritage would also be very cool. My issue here is more the stewing pot of all of our 3D incarnational experiences combined. There is so much I will never be able to fully understand within 3D, and that is fine. I may be a little too attached to the idea of understanding. 4D isn't really supposed to be the realm of understanding either, I hear. But maybe knowing more of the deeper parts of our collective identity will do it.
(02-21-2009, 09:59 PM)jeremy6d Wrote: Yeah, this is kind of a vague area. My guess is that those who polarize STS do not necessarily leave the complex. Ra does say or hint at some point that the identity gained by participating in an emergent complex stays with the entity even after 3rd density.
The identity gained stays with the entity, or stays with the complex? The entitiy of the complex, or the entity of the individual? Sorry for being dense - can't wait for telepathy to take hold.
(02-21-2009, 09:59 PM)jeremy6d Wrote: STS, to my mind, *is* distorted STO. It is an experiment in the possibility of disunity. Whenever free will is abrogated, the signs of STS are apparent.
One can infringe on free will with the best of intentions, but doing this is STS in a fundamental way because it places one's own will as a part of the Creation over another part's will. Remember: STS does not equate with "evil"; the judgements we level on actions are just more catalyst to process; they are not themselves the Choice.
I am fully aware that the STS/STO discussion is separate from "good/evil", although there may be a correlation. I am also aware that in the end there is no good or evil, it all just is, and maybe not even that. However, I am a human being, and as a dedicated player in this field I must acknowledge that there are actions that are not "wrong" only because we are told so. Anyone with an open heart will react strongly to seeing others getting hurt. Anyone with a truly open heart will actively seek not to hurt others.
Allright, I'll take a blunt example. A child is being thrown live into a fire where the remains of its parents are already smoldering. It'll save a bullet, right? Unfortunately this is not a hypothetical example. What's important here is to separate judging the act from judging the actor. It is not hard to forgive all those involved, seeing how the perpetrator is easily hurting him(/her, less commonly)self more in the long run than the child and its parents are hurt. I can forgive; I can love all those involved, but I cannot understand.
Reading the Ra material resonates with me in that we do not all, through outer workings of karma, reincarnate our way through all potential experiences. For an open-hearted, rather naive entity just wanting to help, it would be pretty easy to slip into the role of the somewhat habitual martyr - murderers and victims don't necessarily trade places. I think it's fairly unusual that they do. From reading the Ra/Quo materials it also seems like the belligerence and brutality of this particular region of 3D took many within the creation somewhat by surprise. It still takes me by surprise, even though I remember getting killed by groups of people on at least three occasions.
The gritty, hands-on acts of genocide are in potential within all of us, and within the whole creation, or none of it would ever have happened. I cannot understand it, but I think it's very important that it be understood. If not here, then elsewhere. My issue here is not so much with the past, as with the future. This is our potential, and I don't really want to see it happening again.
This is one of the great shadows within our present collective. How, as a collective, can we face and balance this shadow? Or am I blowing this out of proportion?
(02-21-2009, 09:59 PM)jeremy6d Wrote: According to Ra, we take our experiences in third density with us. 3rd density experiences would appear to be very powerful determiners of future evolution through the densities. And there's not so much a forgetting in future densities, according to Ra.
Yes, this exactly is my issue. This 3rd density has been rather dense.