our medical system treats symptoms

[Monica]

You've merely found and identified with a source which has associated the term treatment with doing something to another to FIX them. Thus the concept stuck, like a robotic patterning.

Is that not what the entire medical establishment is all about? How is it not?

I find it amusing that you accuse me of robotic programming; me, who seeks and thinks outside the box, and has traversed a long journey of healing which you know nothing about; while you defend the mainstream, which depends totally on robotic programming to survive.

I don't see any evidence of thinking outside of the box, whatsoever.

Being willing to try new things...new healing methods that have not gotten a stamp of approval by the PTB...that is thinking outside the box.

Anyone who has ever sought out any alternative treatments, on their own, and made decisions about them despite disapproval from their doctors or families...has thought outside the box. The box, of course, being the conventional, approved medical establishment.

Indeed you are and have been hand-waving and parroting what that subculture apprehends, using the same terminology and themes. Mere regurgitation is hardly a pioneering effort.

Ya know, I could easily get offended by your comments, but instead I am laughing at your audacity. Indeed, that is quite ballsy, to tell someone they are merely 'parroting' when you know nothing of their experiences or journey...to tell them they are regurgitating the party line of a subculture, when they were doing those things before the subculture even existed. Yes, indeed, A for Audacity, zen!

You seem to have your mind made up that alternative therapies are bogus and anyone pursuing them is brainwashed. (Please correct me if I'm misinterpreting you.)

Ok, you're wrong.

Virtually without fail, any time anyone mentions anything alternative, you're the one saying it's bogus and you're the one defending the mainstream story that is fed to the public. So my opinion is based on observation. But of course, I won't do what you do and presume to know your motivations. So ok, then if I am wrong, I am happy to learn I'm wrong! I will endeavor to keep that in mind in the future...I will make a point to remember that you really are interested in the other point of view, even though I can't tell by what you say. No problem!

I can only conclude that you've never actually gotten to know people who've been healed via alternative therapies, because if you had, you'd know that many of them have been seeking for a great many years, and have tried a great many things, and view each one as another piece of the puzzle, with emotional and spiritual components playing a very important role. The idea that such a one would trust a single source, as though authoritative like the mainstream medical system, is laughable.

Indeed, you easily amuse yourself, being caught up in your own mind battle.

Pssst...hey zen...have you ever tried being nice? You might surprise yourself and actually like it.

As I said before, anecdotal evidence of effectiveness does not create a reliable choice. And of course, that is all you have to offer.

Actually, I'm not offering anything at all in the context of this conversation. This is just an internet forum. What I offer in my everyday life reaps results. To the people getting those results, that's all that matters. What you think about what I do doesn't matter. What they think is what matters.

Please explain to me how you view the term treatment.

Addressing the trouble. Some treatments will be more effective than others, for various reasons.

Yes, the 'trouble' from an allopathic perspective is localized, whereas the 'trouble' from a holistic perspective is systemic. That's it in a nutshell.

I have no interest in further discussion with you, zen, because once again you are teetering on the edge of insult and I'm really not interested in that. We clearly live in different worlds. Have a good day!

PS. Looking in the mirror, I realize that I was wrong to conclude that you've never encountered someone who had been healed using holistic modalities. It definitely seems that way to me, as I observe your attitude towards alternative healing, but I was wrong to state such as a 'conclusion' rather than just asking you. For that, I apologize.

If, however, my conclusion was accurate, and you haven't encountered such people in person, then I invite you to read some of their stories, for your own enjoyment and expansion. These are REAL people. I am one of them and I've met many others. Stories abound that may seem miraculous, but make perfect sense when viewed from within the holistic paradigm.

Here's a good one to start with:
http://www.drday.com/

I'm happy to hear that you are open-minded after all! That's reassuring, being that Dr. Day has been mercilessly ridiculed by the mainstream medical establishment she used to work for. A less open-minded person might just believe the folks at quackwatch.com without actually reading her story and deciding for themselves.

Here is another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6z3WD1oP5Y

I know Bill personally. He's a friend of mine.

Anecdotal, you say? That is a term used by the medical establishment to discredit the real stories of real people.