LOO discussion on ATS forum

[Ashim]

Bless all of you at L/L Research and all forum members for your "pioneer" work on the LOO, the ongoing discussion serves to show the many multi-dimensional Truths contained within this great body of Knowledge.

3 days ago, a poster on ATS opened a thread pertaining to the Harvest and Law of One; whilst certainly not of the quality of H_H or the other alleged Family Member his message is very positive. He does not claim membership of any group. He spent much time answering the many mostly intelligent questions posed. Although very true to the LOO at most times he does slip up on a few occasions - there again there will always be distortions when one single person offers his view as to what me be behind the veil. Never the less I found it a good read and am of the opinion that the LOO has gained an even wider audience because of this discussion.

Love & Light
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread535720/pg1

[litllady]

I watched this thread unfold and as always, I find some things that dont resonate...but the majority does and the intent of the poster is positive. I have recently joined the thread myself...not so much disagreeing or agreeing with the Op...but replying to specific comments or questions that I felt I could offer an insight.

I am not one that feels a need to worry about harvest...so this is a something that rubs me wrong...saying that...the idea of spreading others to be aware and showing them there is a difference in service to self and service to others I find important. Just as much as I might not feel a need to focus on certain things...I still respect why others have a need to do so. Everyone's walk is different and we all have something to offer another.

It is one of the more positive lights towards things that the LOO teaches...encouraging to follow what resonates with you. My path right now serves as a lower nature, for it is backtracking the path that I once walked, the one that I see that had misunderstandings, and challenging those that now walk that path. I am LeoVirgo there..the one arguing against the nature of blood sacrifices. Some may see this as useless...but I feel it is very much of my path right now.

[Questioner]

Right from the first message, I have mixed feelings about this thread on ATS.

I liked the disclaimer that discernment is needed, including for the poster's own message.
I disliked the idea that physical senses and the mind are useless in discernment. As we've often discussed here, feelings and ideas can be very important tools of discernment.

The original poster claims expertise through study and meditation. The meditation is a personal experience that can't be replicated by others with any guaranteed results. No sources are cited to help others do their own study. Jargon like "third density" is thrown around without any attempt at explanation, mixed in with beginner-level material. I agree that if only one concept of the Law of One were to be successfully shared, understanding the difference between STS vs. STO may be the most valuable distinction for most people. That understanding can immediately be used to transform relationships, reduce abuses, and appreciate each moment in life, starting immediately. Once that polarity is understood, the idea that polarity also leads to harvestability is then easier to explain.

Therefore, the effect of the message is that the average schlub, who can't figure things out with their senses and mind, has to become dependent on the poster. At least is better than becoming dependent on the ruling elite. That seems to me to be a hidden implication contrary to the material we study here, which presents any type of dependency as a potential STS distortion.

"it is important to open up as many entities as possible to the One Truth." This is wording that implies a position of power rather than helping. One uses a wrench to open up an engine. One lovingly adds water and exposure to sunshine to help a flower open itself up. Which is the better metaphor for a person? I would prefer to say that's it is important to help nurture, support, and co-discover reality with entities that are opening themselves to the truth.

I also see an application for my recent "slide show" about reality and truth. The Law of One says that in reality, there is One Creator. But we are each only able to perceive a portion of that reality. This portion is our truth and if it's accurate, it doesn't conflict with anyone else's truth. But their truths and ours might be more comprehensive in different areas of reality, meaning there is not One Truth.

My definitions here might be idiosyncratic, but I think it's a big tip-off that the poster referred to factual knowledge about One Truth, rather than a deeper personal loving relationship with the One Creator, as what should be most sought. This dependency through hidden information is the entry point to control and manipulation of cult leaders.

Finally, the "knowledge protects because it tells you how to evade the negative domineering forces" theme comes straight from some channeled sources from Florida and France. Because it's a different channel, we can't discuss in more detail here because of the rules of this forum. But there seems to be a consensus here that this other channeling has a mixed positive and negative message that tends to increase fear and to focus on power seized through hidden knowledge, rather than opening to love for all in each moment and sharing knowledge lovingly with all who ask. The ATS poster seems to me to be headed in what I perceive as a downhill direction.

Skimming the first few messages of the discussion are just what I expected: those who already know the material talk around it, and those who don't know it already are baffled. Positions are dug in and defensiveness ensues. There is always an opportunity for the light to shine through with graciousness. I suspect that in that other thread, there might not be many people who use that opportunity.

I think my own spiritual evolution is better served by focusing on this forum, and some other sources that seem much more positive in my own life. If the ATS material is a blessing to you, please don't let my own hesitations keep you from whatever nurtures your own life. However, I'll sit this one out.

ATS often reminds me of something brilliantly put by the comic XKCD:

[ayadew]

To teach in a forum filled with conspiracy theorists is an excellent exercise in acceptance, patience and allowance due to it's brutal vanity.
If one wishes to teach positive then it's my approach to skip all technicalities and definitely not talk about Harvest and such really far-out concepts.

XKCD is brilliant

Great post Questioner!

[Questioner]

To teach in a forum filled with conspiracy theorists is an excellent exercise in acceptance, patience and allowance due to it's brutal vanity.

Well put. Kind of like the thrilling challenge of off-road driving, compared to a smooth cruise down the highway.

I get plenty of brutal vanity for free from people I encounter without using the Internet. For a delightful contrast, I prefer to use the Internet to connect with lovingly patient individuals who like a philosophy of kindness. As they say in the car ads, "your mileage may vary!"

[ayadew]

Hah, there's plently of yellow ray blockage to be found on the internet for sure (shown in an excellent way by the XKCD picture).
Let your light shine through it all

[litllady]

I can understand why some would not participate in ATS forums. I for one joined ATS in my time of moving away from Divine Cosmos. Boy...what a change of atmospheres! But I did admire the freedom of voice at ATS which has kept me there and I join in discussions there regularly. Some of it is for my own rant and rave...but most of it is to challenge another to think (at least that is my intent).

Sometimes, a person might not see the deer till they crash. Sometimes, a person can be the deer, jump out in time for them to see the 'frozen eyes' and leave the scene fast enough for the person to avoid the crash. Does that make any sense? lol

Sometimes, a offering of self is a good thing, if the person can handle it. People will try to knock ya down, but discussions are good for some people. I laughed at Questioner's picture of the person at the computer who 'thinks someone is wrong'. But isnt discussion sharing a thought, philosophizing to a degree. If your able to offer a personal understanding of something....who is to say that out of the hundred people that will read it, that something you have said might not resonate with one person out of that hundred. Plus...how is to say that someone cant offer me something when I place my thoughts out there to be challenged.

I have certain places I go for the smooth ride...but I also like to join the rat race too. Each to their own.

I guess it is in a sense everyone coming to claim they 'know' something another does not....but challenging each other is not a bad thing, IMPO.


litllady

[blargg]

thanks for bringing this thread to my attention everyone. i check ATS frequently and never spotted Universal Light's thread. I enjoyed reading through it.

[Ashim]

I felt that Universal Light / Michael followed his heart and did very well. There will always be distortion on the part of the messenger caused unintentionally due to the limitations of his Knowledge.
It was the overall heartfelt nature of the questions he was asked, along with his sincere, if somewhat flawed responses, that prompted me to join the ATS forum.
Many ATS members are searching for Universal Truths, so why not offer this type of encounter?
Several posters found contradictions and new challenges to their established belief systems or accepted doctrine. Were they participating in order to validate their own views and be "right", or were they opening themselves to the Vibration, sensing in a way the Law of One behind the rhetoric?
I hope to see Michael here soon.


L&L

[Questioner]

I honor that for some people, the ATS forum can be an inspiring opportunity to have very condensed exposure to a wide variety of concepts, personalities, attitudes and catalyst. Please don't let my own preference to look elsewhere keep anyone else from what promotes their own spiritual evolution.

If any interaction brings delight, meaning, healing, sharpening of your own mental clarity, or any other blessing to you, I wish to honor and celebrate those experiences and outcomes within the marvelous diversity of creation.

Some people thrive on spicy foods that make me queasy. Meanwhile, speaking only for myself, I'll have another bite of comfort food until my tummy is more settled. I'll wave as you head back to the expanded buffet and, perhaps, nibble at an offered little bite of your exciting discovery, glad I don't have to eat the whole thing myself.

[Peregrinus]

I see a number of things here.
1) The one that began this thread on ATS did so as if the knowledge he had was secret, thus fuelling the desire of those types that seek "inside" information. Whether it will impact upon them or not... for Ra stated that those that wish to seek shall seek, and the rest should be left in their bliss, having no desire as of yet to move to a higher vibrational frequency.
2) I have as of late taken on a more spiritual position in this plane, and I find it disturbing that one would be looked up to for information such as the Ra Materials. I think I find it disturbing because people look to me as one with knowledge... this is a catalyst for me to evaluate the way I interact with others. I wish no pedestal, no pulpit, so the question is... how to shepherd the flock without such tools... and if they need shepherding, or want it...

Thank you Ashim.

[Questioner]

how to shepherd the flock without such tools... and if they need shepherding, or want it...

According to Jesus: Call. If they come, they're your flock. If they don't, they're not.

John 10:

...the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. .... I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. .... And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd....But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

:idea: How many tools are mentioned in this passage? How many clever rhetorical techniques to list the benefits so that the sheep would be open to an advertisement about the latest offer? No need for an informercial: "Jesus here for the Heavenly Father. Do you have stains in your soul you just can't get out?" No, all he had to do was call, and they answered, for they already knew his voice.

Or as Ra put it,

normally if one entity desires another enough to call it, the entity will have the corresponding desire to be called.

and

However, if it be your desire to share our communications with others we have the distortion towards a perception that this would be most helpful in regularizing and crystallizing your own patterns of vibration upon the levels of experience which you call the life. If one is illuminated, are not all illuminated? Therefore, we are oriented towards speaking for you in whatever supply of speakingness you may desire.

(I added the emphasis)

Supply whatever supply of speakingness brings joy for Peregrinus. If the speakingness is also an attempt to do some sheep-calling and no sheep show up, try something else. Either they prefer someone else's voice they recognize as their shepherd, or they would like a different supply of speakingness.

[Peregrinus]

Thank you for your insights Questioner. They are very much appreciated.

I already have those that have come to my voice... but I have been weighing whether it is my place to shepherd or not. I do not enjoy being put on a pedestal or being looked up to in any sense. To be clear, I strongly object to it, for I am no more than anyone else...

[Aaron]

Thank you for your insights Questioner. They are very much appreciated.

I already have those that have come to my voice... but I have been weighing whether it is my place to shepherd or not. I do not enjoy being put on a pedestal or being looked up to in any sense. To be clear, I strongly object to it, for I am no more than anyone else...

Remind yourself that whoever you are offering wisdom to, you are just helping them realize what they already know. All wisdom is already potentially known by all; it just doesn't flow through all in our current state. Everyone already knows the Law of One by heart, they just don't remember it yet!

In that sense, you are just a speaker of an important message, not the author of that message. Together, all of us speakers create an awesome surround sound system of Truth! haha

[Questioner]

I do not enjoy being put on a pedestal or being looked up to in any sense. To be clear, I strongly object to it, for I am no more than anyone else...

I think Aaron's right on track. 7.1 (7th density of One Creator) in surround, eh? I love the metaphor! This is well covered by Ra:

Ra: I am Ra. You may consider that question for yourself. We interpret the Law of One, but not to the extent of advice.

Ra: I am Ra. The title of the book is acceptable. The authorship by vibratory sound complex Ra is, in our distortion of understanding, incomplete. We are messengers.

In the same way, it is appropriate for you, and for me, to let those who seek our perspective know this: "I'm happy to help share ideas and questions that might inspire you to find your own answers. I'm not here to tell you what to do, but to be a catalyst to remind you about your own free will. Instead of a shepherd who tells you where to go, I'd rather be your friend you walks beside you."

The I Ching has much to say about this as well. For example, here's a paraphrase of hexagram 4:

There's no shame in being young and naive. The lad asks me to help him peek out from under his blindfold. At the first opportunity to share a spiritual insight at his request, I do so. If he troubles me with the same question repeated three times (more, without paying attention to the previous answers), he's a troublemaker and I don't have to provide further information on demand. The harvest is accelerated when I place my bet on divine revelation's guidance.