Dual-Activated Entities

[Lavazza]

I am poaching the following snippet from the "2012: Earth becomes STO 4D and waits for us... :-)" thread:

Over time, it seems likely that those who need to change planets will complete their purpose here and die more quickly than those that do not. Combine this with the fact that newly born children will be exclusively those evolving to positive 4D on this planet, and the resulting harmony of kindred souls will eventually make even the 3D experience of Earth, in the far coming years, almost paradise compared to today.

Well written post, 3D, thank you! Your comment about children reminded me of the concept of the dual-activated entities that will bridge the transition from 3D to 4D. It might be fun to explore this concept more. I'm still confused about how this works, who it applies to, and what sort of time lines we're looking at.

(note: I am working from the presumption that the shift from 3rd to 4th density is gradual. I know there is some debate about this, but I would ask that we set aside that debate while we discuss here, and rather work with the gradualist model)

My rough speculation is that anyone who happens to be alive during the transition will probably need to be dual activated to some degree. Said transition is said by those of Ra and Quo to be between 100 and 700 years. I think most can agree that this time period starts somewhere between 2011-2013. This is effectively the end of 3rd density. After this point the choice of polarity is closed, and the change to 4th density starts.

Since we are all alive and will see the end of 3rd density, we should in theory be "dual-booted" to accept 3rd density with some degree of 4th density. For if 3rd density is over, how else would we, a third density species, get on? Perhaps we could speculate that as we go further along the 100-700 year time line, people being born will be more and more suited to 4th density and less and less suited to third density, to coincide the the change of vibration. So that I personally am less wired for 4th density than a new born is, even if only slightly so?

Could it also be that we'll see a temporary spike in human mortality rates as those who are not wired for 4th density to any degree (100% 3rd density wiring) make their exit prior to the 2011-2013 time period?

Depending on the actual number of years the transition will take will depend on how noticeable each subsequent generation will be, I think it reasonable to say. I.e. a 300 year transition will yield more noticeable results than a 600 year transition. What about a very short transition... Perhaps 100 years. Each person being born would naturally display more and more 4th densitiness © than the person before him/her.

What do we know of 4th density to indicate what features or abilities this person would have? Increased telepathy and empathy certainly. Any physical traits? If I understand correctly, the upgrade to 4th density vibrations means an increase in atomic vibratory rate in science. Certainly that must change physical traits such as body chemical balances, etc.

I hope to have opened a large enough hole on this subject to encourage many different aspects of discussion. I look forward to hearing them!

Love and 4th density light,
Lavazza

[3D Sunset]

Hi Lavazza,

A lot to talk about here. I'd like to take in bite size pieces, if that's okay.

My rough speculation is that anyone who happens to be alive during the transition will probably need to be dual activated to some degree. Said transition is said by those of Ra and Quo to be between 100 and 700 years. I think most can agree that this time period starts somewhere between 2011-2013. This is effectively the end of 3rd density. After this point the choice of polarity is closed, and the change to 4th density starts.

Hmmm. What you say here could get us caught up the instantaneous / gradual debate, but I won't take the bait... I think of the time around 2012 as being like the sunset of 3D (hence my username). But just as the sky doesn't get dark immediately after the sun sinks below the horizon, so too will the 3D light not blink out immediately, it will attenuate over time. During this twilight, which will last several hundred years, I think that both dual activated 3D/4D bodies as well as single activated 3D bodies will continue to live and thrive. I do tend to believe that only dual activated bodies will incarnate after that time, and through the increased intensity of 4D light, an evolutionary spark will happen that will transform, through genetic "mutations" (for lack of a better term) 3D bodies into 4D bodies in a fairly short time (1-2 generations).

So, I disagree with part of your premise. I don't think that everyone who's alive now, or even in 20-50 years is or will be dual activated. As I mentioned in my previous post that you quoted, I think that everyone is here with a specific agenda, and they will not leave until the agenda is given an opportunity to play out in the form of preplanned catalysts. From this perspective 2012 will simply be another day, just as Jesus' birth and death were just "other days" to those alive at the time. Only in retrospect have we assigned enough significance to them to start counting our years from then. (By the way, I do think that over time, the year 2012 will become regarded as year 0).

As to dual activation, you are certainly of the right age (as are many at this web site, myself not included) to have a dual activated body, but I wouldn't presuppose it of anyone. By the same token, your children are quite likely dual activated, and that I presume is an important reason that you chose each other as family members, and probably an important reason that you found this site and this community in which to learn/teach and teach/learn (in preparation for doing much more so with your family).

I'll save some thoughts on what it may mean to be dual activated for my next post. Thanks for stating the thread. I've attempted similar discussion in the past (on this and DC website), but haven't had much traction so far. Given that there are at least two of us interested in the topic though, at least we can have a dialog.

Love and light,

3D Sunset

[Lavazza]

Hi Lavazza,

A lot to talk about here. I'd like to take in bite size pieces, if that's okay.

Certainly!

Hmmm. What you say here could get us caught up the instantaneous / gradual debate, but I won't take the bait... I think of the time around 2012 as being like the sunset of 3D (hence my username). But just as the sky doesn't get dark immediately after the sun sinks below the horizon, so too will the 3D light not blink out immediately, it will attenuate over time. During this twilight, which will last several hundred years, I think that both dual activated 3D/4D bodies as well as single activated 3D bodies will continue to live and thrive. I do tend to believe that only dual activated bodies will incarnate after that time, and through the increased intensity of 4D light, an evolutionary spark will happen that will transform, through genetic "mutations" (for lack of a better term) 3D bodies into 4D bodies in a fairly short time (1-2 generations).

Hmmm, hmmm. Lets consider your sunset analogy a bit more though. Lets imagine that there are actually two suns to make our analogy closer to density changes. Suppose that these two suns are in a position such that when we see one set, another rises, so that we are never without light regardless of what time of day we are at. The 3rd/4th density transition could be said to encompass that span of time where one sun (3rd d.) begins to set and the other sun (4th d.) begins to rise. At some discrete or specific point, the 4th d. sun will be close enough to rising to begin spilling photos in to our atmosphere and provide illumination. At that exact same time, the light from the 3rd d. sun will begin to lessen as it gets closer to the horizon. Note that at that exact time, the 3rd d. sun is still completely in the sky and the 4th d. sun is not visibly discernible at all. That specific point is, I believe, Dec 21st. 2012. (or to avoid debate, lets say the 2011-2013 range).

Now then, the question is, what do we do with 4th density sunlight, even if it's just a few photons to start with? Your argument is basically that 100% 3rd density wired bodies don't use it at all, and eventually that entity just passes out of the world as the sub-logos shifts it's population to 3rd/4th d. activated bodies. But, lets look at this from another perspective, and ask this question: What do we do with the ever increasing lack of 3rd density light? Or to step outside the analogy, what does the 3rd density entity do as the 3rd density vibrations become less and less? Can it even happen? I would suspect that at any given instant of life, the design would be such that all entities have 100% light to work with at all times, be it 100% 3rd density, or 99.9% 3rd d. and 0.1% 4th d. It seems more elegant to always be working with the same level of vibration, regardless if it is completely one type of vibration or a composite of two.

I think there may be weight to my idea that if you are in the presence of any 4th d. light whatsoever, you must be wired to work with it in some capacity, rather than ignoring it, for otherwise you would be living with less and less light then you had when you were younger.

And, what evidence is there that you are not dual-activated?

Certainly we will see more dual-activation as time goes on, I just suspect that this process started a while earlier then you think. Possibly the last 100% 3rd density entities are on their way out of the picture now, in these last couple of years. Of course this all happens in the background and nobody is consciously aware of it, and is agreed to well in advance of incarnation, so no freewill violation takes place.

So, I disagree with part of your premise. I don't think that everyone who's alive now, or even in 20-50 years is or will be dual activated. As I mentioned in my previous post that you quoted, I think that everyone is here with a specific agenda, and they will not leave until the agenda is given an opportunity to play out in the form of preplanned catalysts. From this perspective 2012 will simply be another day, just as Jesus' birth and death were just "other days" to those alive at the time. Only in retrospect have we assigned enough significance to them to start counting our years from then. (By the way, I do think that over time, the year 2012 will become regarded as year 0).

I agree. Basically I expect 2012 to be a non-event for those expecting all the various disaster scenarios to play out. And I agree, significance will very likely come about in retrospect years and years later.

As to dual activation, you are certainly of the right age (as are many at this web site, myself not included) to have a dual activated body, but I wouldn't presuppose it of anyone. By the same token, your children are quite likely dual activated, and that I presume is an important reason that you chose each other as family members, and probably an important reason that you found this site and this community in which to learn/teach and teach/learn (in preparation for doing much more so with your family).

But how does one come to such a conclusion? Has Ra spoken to a certain period where dual-activation begins? Our age difference is not so great that I think we would have a different activation status, and certainly our commonality that we'll both live to see 2012 and beyond makes a case (in my opinion!) that we are both dual-activated, as is anyone whose pre-incarnative plan was to live up to 2012 and/or afterward.

I'll save some thoughts on what it may mean to be dual activated for my next post. Thanks for stating the thread. I've attempted similar discussion in the past (on this and DC website), but haven't had much traction so far. Given that there are at least two of us interested in the topic though, at least we can have a dialog.

At the least, yes. I've been a bit dismayed these last few weeks as activity on the forum has dropped for some reason. Of course that's meant an increase in my production at work...

[3D Sunset]

Now then, the question is, what do we do with 4th density sunlight, even if it's just a few photons to start with? Your argument is basically that 100% 3rd density wired bodies don't use it at all, and eventually that entity just passes out of the world as the sub-logos shifts it's population to 3rd/4th d. activated bodies.

Actually no, I do think that 3D bodies can use 4D light in some crude ways, and Ra discusses how the nature of 4D vibrational light is already leading to thoughts becoming things in 3D (recall how anger can become cancer in our thought/form discussion earlier). But the extent to which a 3D m/b/s can use 4D vibrational light is similar to the efficiency in energy production of burning hydrogen compared to that of fusing two hydrogen atoms together. I do feel that a 3D m/b/s must have some 3D light to continue to thrive, but as I said, as the 3D sun sets, there will be ample, but waning, twilight to keep those that have reason to remain viable for some time to come.

I agree that there is a 4D sunrise concomitant with the 3D sunset. I was merely looking at things from the perspective of a 3D m/b/s in order to elucidate my point about 3D versus combined 3D/4D wiring. A combined 3D/4D m/b/s can experience some aspects of the newly born 4D Earth. But even they must die and be reborn as 4D m/b/s to experience it fully.

But how does one come to such a conclusion? Has Ra spoken to a certain period where dual-activation begins? Our age difference is not so great that I think we would have a different activation status, and certainly our commonality that we'll both live to see 2012 and beyond makes a case (in my opinion!) that we are both dual-activated, as is anyone whose pre-incarnative plan was to live up to 2012 and/or afterward.

Actually yes. The following passage is rich with information about the dual activated entities and the transition to 4D. Please forgive me for including such a lengthy quote, but I find it all pertinent and it pains me try to break it up. I have taken the liberty of adding emphasis on certain areas that are most applicable to your questions above.

Questioner: I would like to continue with the questions about the fact that in fourth-density the red, orange, and green energies will be activated; yellow, blue, etc. being in potentiation. Right now, we have green energies activated. They have been activated for the last 45 years. I am wondering about the transition through this period so that the green is totally activated and the yellow is in potentiation. What will we lose as the yellow goes from activation into potentiation, and what will we gain as green comes into total activation, and what is the process?

Ra: I am Ra. It is misleading to speak of gains and losses when dealing with the subject of the cycle’s ending and the green-ray cycle beginning upon your sphere. It is to be kept in the forefront of the faculties of intelligence that there is one creation in which there is no loss. There are progressive cycles for experiential use by entities. We may now address your query.

As the green-ray cycle or the density of love and understanding begins to take shape the yellow-ray plane or Earth which you now enjoy in your dance will cease to be inhabited for some period of your space/time as the space/time necessary for fourth-density entities to learn their ability to shield their density from that of third is learned. After this period there will come a time when third-density may again cycle on the yellow-ray sphere.

Meanwhile there is another sphere, congruent to a great extent with yellow ray, forming. This fourth-density sphere coexists with first, second, and third. It is of a denser nature due to the rotational core atomic aspects of its material. We have discussed this subject with you.

The fourth-density entities which incarnate at this space/time are fourth density in the view of experience but are incarnating in less dense vehicles due to desire to experience and aid in the birth of fourth-density upon this plane.

You may note that fourth-density entities have a great abundance of compassion.

Questioner: At present we have, in third-density incarnation on this plane, those third-density entities of the planet Earth who have been here for some number of incarnations who will graduate in the three-way split, either positive polarity remaining for fourth-density experience on this planet, the negative polarity harvestable going to another planet, and the rest unharvestable third-density going to another third-density planet. In addition to these entities I am assuming that we have here some entities already harvestable from other third-density planets who have come here and have incarnated in third-density form to make the transition with this planet into fourth-density, plus Wanderers.

Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct except we may note a small point. The positively oriented harvested entities will remain in this planetary influence but not upon this plane.

Questioner: I think you said there were 60 million Wanderers, approximately, here now. Am I correct in that memory?

Ra: I am Ra. This is approximately correct. There is some excess to that amount.

Questioner: Does that number include the harvestable entities who are coming to this planet for the fourth-density experience?

Ra: I am Ra. No.

Questioner: Approximately how many are here now who have come here from other planets who are third-density harvestable for fourth-density experience?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a recent, shall we say, phenomenon and the number is not yet in excess of 35,000 entities.

Questioner: Now these entities incarnate into a third-density vibratory body. I am trying to understand how this transition takes place from third to fourth-density. I will take the example of one of these entities of which we are speaking who is now in a third-density body. He will grow older and then will it be necessary that he die from the third-density physical body and reincarnate in a fourth-density body for that transition?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities are those incarnating with what you may call a double body in activation. It will be noted that the entities birthing these fourth-density entities experience a great feeling of, shall we say, the connection and the use of spiritual energies during pregnancy. This is due to the necessity for manifesting the double body.

This transitional body is one which will be, shall we say, able to appreciate fourth-density vibratory complexes as the instreaming increases without the accompanying disruption of the third-density body. If a third-density entity were, shall we say, electrically aware of fourth-density in full, the third density electrical fields would fail due to incompatibility.

To answer your query about death, these entities will die according to third density necessities.

Questioner: You are saying, then, that for the transition from third to fourth-density for one of the entities with doubly activated bodies, in order to make the transition the third-density body will go through the process of what we call death. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The third and fourth, combination, density’s body will die according to the necessity of third-density mind/body/spirit complex distortions.

We may respond to the heart of your question by noting that the purpose of such combined activation of mind/body/spirit complexes is that such entities, to some extent, conscientiously are aware of those fourth-density understandings which third-density is unable to remember due to the forgetting. Thus fourth-density experience may be begun with the added attraction to an entity oriented toward service-to-others of dwelling in a troubled third-density environment and offering its love and compassion.

Questioner: Would the purpose in transitioning to Earth prior to the complete changeover then be for the experience to be gained here before the harvesting process?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. These entities are not Wanderers in the sense that this planetary sphere is their fourth-density home planet. However, the experience of this service is earned only by those harvested third-density entities which have demonstrated a great deal of orientation towards service-to-others. It is a privilege to be allowed this early an incarnation as there is much experiential catalyst in service to other-selves at this harvesting.

I was 21 years old when this information was channeled, you were 18 months old. By no definition of the word was I a child at that time, and by no definition of the word were you anything other than a child. So you see even though our age difference is small, it is still enough to exclude me, but include you. I do not concern myself with such matters, though. I am confident that I will remain here for as long as I am needed. After that, I will move on to my next adventure, be it back to Earth for 4D, off to another 3D planet, or perhaps back to a higher plane.

There is much more to discover and discuss in the above quote. I'll refer to it again in my next post. Note for starters, the last section I emphasized. This indicates that the veil is much thinner for dual activated entities. This has several interesting possible implications.

Love and light,

3D Sunset

[Richard]

3D Sunset wrote:

" At the least, yes. I've been a bit dismayed these last few weeks as activity on the forum has dropped for some reason. Of course that's meant an increase in my production at work..."

--------------

I contribute on several other forums and just read a few others. I’ve also been seeing a noticeable drop in activity in all of them for the last… what?…week or so?

Interesting, but I'm not sure what it means. Or, even, if it means anything.

Richard

[Lavazza]

Questioner: Approximately how many are here now who have come here from other planets who are third-density harvestable for fourth-density experience?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a recent, shall we say, phenomenon and the number is not yet in excess of 35,000 entities.

Hello again 3D, thank you for providing that lengthy response. I saw the above quote from Ra and must agree that the influx of dual-activated entities seems to be a more recent (around 1980) occurrence. It seems less elegant than my theory but I guess we can take Ra's word for it Your analogy of the hydrogen atom is also a helpful one. Either the burning of or fusing.

So let me state my understanding thus far, in a series of bullet points and offer them for critique:

- Dual-activated entities are those that at the end of their last incarnation were 4th density STO harvestable.
- Instead of moving directly on to 4th density proper, they have chosen to come back to Earth during it's own transition to aid the planet and/or other entities.
- They are "wanderers" in a sense... Having wandered back in to 3rd density.
- They are what many refer to as indigo and crystal children.
- They started incarnating around 1980.

- Not all humans being born at this point are dual-activated.
- After 2012 only dual-activated entities will incarnate.
- this will continue for the duration of the transition period between 3rd & 4th
- at some point near the end of the transition only 4th density entities will continue to be born, and during that generation's lifetime we will have come to 4th density in full.

That's the picture I have now, please respond with comments if you feel there is some misunderstanding here. Otherwise we might proceed to some of the other (very interesting) nuggets in your quote. I have some questions as they relate to the above points but wish to ensure that we are working from the same base knowledge before asking.

Many thanks!
Lavazza

[3D Sunset]

So let me state my understanding thus far, in a series of bullet points and offer them for critique:

- Dual-activated entities are those that at the end of their last incarnation were 4th density STO harvestable.
- Instead of moving directly on to 4th density proper, they have chosen to come back to Earth during it's own transition to aid the planet and/or other entities.
- They are "wanderers" in a sense... Having wandered back in to 3rd density.
- They are what many refer to as indigo and crystal children.
- They started incarnating around 1980.
- Not all humans being born at this point are dual-activated.
- After 2012 only dual-activated entities will incarnate.
- this will continue for the duration of the transition period between 3rd & 4th
- at some point near the end of the transition only 4th density entities will continue to be born, and during that generation's lifetime we will have come to 4th density in full.

Hi Lavazza,

Yes, what you state above is pretty much my interpretation of the material. There is some ambiguity as to whether the Daul Actived children were (at the time) STO "harvestable" from Earth or STO "harvested" from other planets. Don tends to use the former and Ra the latter term (but not always). The first term doesn't really make sense to me though since one is not known to be truly harvestable until after one is indeed harvested and walks the steps of light. Thus, I tend to think that they were from other planets at the time.

This question also has to do with when souls began being harvested from Earth. I have read some Q'uo quotes that indicate that Earth's harvest actually began sometime in 1987, but I am not confident of that timeframe. This doesn't really have any bearing on the subject but may give insight as to why some Dual Activated entities have other classic wanderer issues like allergies to Earth's environment. Regardless of when exactly Earth's harvest began, I do believe that it is now on-going and so Dual Activated children born today could certainly be Earth natives.

In typical Ra fashion, he is vague about when they actually started incarnating. I would say that your 1980 timeframe is probably accurate, but I would add a buffer to say sometime between 1970 - 1980. From Don's questions, he seems to refer to children that are probably up to age ten (my guess) at the time of the session in 1981. There could also be outliers before then, but 35,000 is a very small number compared to Earth's population in 1981 (say about 1 in 100,000 at the time).

There is probably some discussion to be had about when "4th Density in full" happens. To me, 4th Density in full occurs at the conclusion of the Harvest. That is to say when the last full 3D entity dies (recall that Dual Activated entities are, to me at least, already "Harvested"). Even though the dual activated entities do not have fully functional 4D bodies, they are capable of performing 4D work and using some aspects of 4D vibrational light. Whether or not there are any limitations to the abilities that they may manifest before all 3D entities have died off, I do not know, but I suspect that there are not. I could also see the existence of such powers as a catalyst in the coming years for those who need to choose.

To be clear about another topic, the exclusive incarnation of Dual activated children after the 2012 timeframe is a common assumption (mine included), but it is not actually indicated in the Ra material.

With that, I think we are in sync. What area would you like to explore next?

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[Lavazza]

With that, I think we are in sync. What area would you like to explore next?

I'd like to back up just a smidgen and try to re-sketch the basic time line that we are examining with significant events highlighted along that time line, if possible. And unavoidably we will have to cover some of the basics with regard to the harvest here. The list is more or less a series of speculations and questions.

Here is my somewhat fuzzy understanding at the moment.

• 1800-2000 A.D. Industrial revolution and "high" technology (approximation)
  Ra speaks to some degree about Wanderers who incarnated during this time period to help bring society to a more advanced state via technology. Nikola Tesla, Einstein and others. How does this relate to the harvest? Can we suppose that the introduction of the industrial revolution, electricity, atomic energy, etc. was essential for us to possess prior to the harvest time? Is this due to Wanderers only, or is it in some way related to the fact that the end of a major cycle was only a few hundred years away? Or mere coincidence?
  
• 1947 Roswell
  ...and the start of the UFO phenomenon enters public eye and mass consciousness (confederation "advertising") Again, this mass exposure to UFOs is probably correlated to the fact that harvest time is so near?
  
• 1950's introduction of "first wave" of Wanders
  
• 1960's Major paradigm shifts and the hippie movement
  Inspired by... incoming 4th density light? Or was this a fluke movement in our society as it did not manifest itself in the next generation?
  
• 1970's Major advances again in technology (computers)
  Ra confirms Don's suspicion that much of this technology is either given or seeded information from our ET brethren. Introduction of "second wave" of Wanderers.
  
• 1979 Extremely significant entity Lavazza is born in December of this year ( )
  
• 1980's Ra contact, 1987 energetic shift (perhaps?), Dual Activated entities begin incarnating
  
• 1990's Advent of the internet (perhaps psychological foundation for social memory complex paradigm?). Introduction of "third wave" of Wanderers.
  
• 2000's First generation of D.A. (dual-activated) entities experience their 20's and assume roles in life. Explosion of the internet age.
  
• 2012 End of 3rd density major cycle
  Last of the 3rd density entities are born on Dec 20th 2012, and from that point outward only D.A. entities are born. 4th density vibrations begin (?? Are 4th density vibes coming through only at this point, or have they been ramping up for some time?)
  
• 2130 (approx.) No more 3rd density entities
  Around this time most all of the last 3rd density entities will have moved in to larger life, leaving only dual-activated entities. Earth remains uninhabited by 3rd density for a time.
  
• Unknown year in the future #1- 4th density begins
  Around this time the last of the dual-activated entities move in to larger life leaving only 4th density entities, on a 4th density Earth. (Or, do we suppose that 4th density can commence in full once the last bullet point is reached?) Depending on the number of generations dual-entities take to produce only 4th density entities.
  
• Unknown year in the future #2 - 3rd density entities resume incarnating on Earth
  ... once 4th density entities master the art of making themselves invisible to 3rd density (This we may expand further later, as I am very confused about this concept)
  

[3D Sunset]

Hi Lavazza,

Actually Wanderers have been around Earth for all of the last minor cycle (and some have probably been here for the entire major cycle). Clearly, there has been an increasing number of them as we approach the Harvest, but I don't think they follow the three waves you describe (please give me a reference for these waves, I'm not familiar with them). I have read that at around the time of the American Revolution, there was an influx of Wanderers (some of whom were our Founding Fathers) that helped increase the "call for freedom", thus allowing an increased response to the increased call.

This is an interesting point (to me at any rate), in that what determines the Confederation's ability to respond is the magnitude of the total 3D call, be it from wanderers or from native 3D entities. So if the Wanderers are able to remember their purpose, then they can add to the call and thus allow more Wanderers who then further add to the call. Although this is off-topic to the current thread, I think it points to a significant opportunity that L&L Research, David Wilcock, and similar sites all offer. You see, by simply increasing the number of awakened Wanderers we are able to significantly increase the magnitude of the call and thus significantly increase the amount of service that can be offered by the Confederation. Since every awakened Wanderer doubles the magnitude of the call, and if only about 10% of the 60M+ Wanderers incarnate in 1981 were awake, then you can just imagine what would happen to the call if it is further doubled by the Dual Activated entities and an increase of newly awakened Wanderers incarnate at present. I suspect that all of these factors are behind the changes we are seeing in the world consciousness.

On some of your other questions, I don't think that any of the information or inventions brought forth in recent centuries was needed for Harvest. I think that they were seeded (or possibly ceded) to 3D Earth by well intentioned entities that came with missions of helping out. Ra says that Tesla, for example, came with the intent of providing plentiful, low cost, energy but was not able to achieve his goal. The same can be said for nuclear power and many types of technology. The existence of Free Will, combined with the presence of oppositely polarized entities and interests, seems to have effectively neutralized the positive benefits intended with these inspirations.

As to when 3D entities will cease to exist on the Earth, I can't argue with your suggested timeline, but I would point that it is based upon the assumption that the current 3D lifespan will hold sway after most 4D negative Harvestable entities have left. Recall that in early 3D, when life was more in keeping with the Law of One, the typical lifespan was 900 years. I don't see why 3D lives couldn't significantly increase after 2012.

Lastly, I would reiterate that IMHO, 4D has already begun in that there are 3D positively Harvested entities now incarnate with 4D bodies activated which enable them to use 4D light and vibrations (which are already present) to perform 4D work.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[Lavazza]

(please give me a reference for these waves, I'm not familiar with them).

Hello again,

The first, second and third wave of wanderers was something I picked up from an interview with Carla. In reading the text again I see that my memory has fudged the dates just a bit. Here is a quote (sorry, it is a bit long):

Carla: Yes. The term “wanderer” was used by the Ra group and other Confederation entities in talking about people who, as I described before, decided to enter the Earth plane and take Earth bodies and become natives of planet Earth, so that we would have the right to help. And many, many people have done this. As a matter of fact, I think we are on our third generation of wanderers now. I think the original wanderers were oldsters like me, who were just very focused and dedicated to service. You see a huge outpouring of art, music, the pop stars that were writing spiritually oriented songs like the Beatles, in the late sixties. This is part of that first wave of wanderers.

There was a second wave of wanderers that sometimes gets called, like, Generation X or whatever. They were a second wave of wanderers that were not quite so focused on service to the planet. They suddenly realized that this was a time of tremendous change and they could help themselves to become better people by entering the very rigorous metaphysical atmosphere of the fiery furnace of Planet Earth in late third density.

So you see a lot of people who are very self-involved in their spiritual process. And what they need is not so much to be helped with their process, because they are doing very well with that, but to be reminded that they did come to serve others and that they need to kick that energy up a notch and open up to the whole world. You have to realize that when you work on yourself, you are working on the world. That is how you change the world. You don’t go out and physically try to change the world. You work on yourself. So the second generation of wanderers has that energy to it.

And then the third generation of Wanderers is these Indigo kids that we are seeing now. Information from our Confederation sources, especially the Q’uo group, has it that these Indigo kids are the first graduates of third-density Planet Earth. And what did they do when they got graduated and offered their choice of how they wanted to be of service in fourth density? They decided to come right back here and help the rest of their class graduate.

This is an interesting point (to me at any rate), in that what determines the Confederation's ability to respond is the magnitude of the total 3D call, be it from wanderers or from native 3D entities. So if the Wanderers are able to remember their purpose, then they can add to the call and thus allow more Wanderers who then further add to the call. Although this is off-topic to the current thread, I think it points to a significant opportunity that L&L Research, David Wilcock, and similar sites all offer. You see, by simply increasing the number of awakened Wanderers we are able to significantly increase the magnitude of the call and thus significantly increase the amount of service that can be offered by the Confederation. Since every awakened Wanderer doubles the magnitude of the call, and if only about 10% of the 60M+ Wanderers incarnate in 1981 were awake, then you can just imagine what would happen to the call if it is further doubled by the Dual Activated entities and an increase of newly awakened Wanderers incarnate at present. I suspect that all of these factors are behind the changes we are seeing in the world consciousness.

I think it's very interesting as well. And I would agree that the number of people who are awakening is likely very relevant to the changes we are observing. The world is changing faster and faster, so much so that some older folks can barely recognize the world they now live in, if they have not made efforts to stay current. Instant communications? World economy? Black president??! It is a fascinating time, no doubt. I would only comment on your above paragraph that I do not think that the Wanderers are the only ones who are important when it comes to waking up and adding to the call. Any entity who does so is of aid. Although certainly a woken Wanderer may be of especial aid so that they might fulfill whatever pre-incarnational mission they had intended to accomplish.

On some of your other questions, I don't think that any of the information or inventions brought forth in recent centuries was needed for Harvest. I think that they were seeded (or possibly ceded) to 3D Earth by well intentioned entities that came with missions of helping out. Ra says that Tesla, for example, came with the intent of providing plentiful, low cost, energy but was not able to achieve his goal. The same can be said for nuclear power and many types of technology. The existence of Free Will, combined with the presence of oppositely polarized entities and interests, seems to have effectively neutralized the positive benefits intended with these inspirations.

Yes, I think I agree that the high level of technology we enjoy is probably not needed at a harvest time such as ours. Yet I still find it somewhat significant that so many leaps forward with innovations like electricity, light bulbs, motor cars, airplanes, medicines, computers, etc. etc. has occurred in seemingly so short a period right at the end of a 75,000 year cycle. Consider our comparatively primitive standards of life for at least 74,800 of those years. We've only enjoyed such luxuries for 0.25% of our major cycle. This is all irrelevant as regards Dual-Activated entities of course, just a side observation. And of course, it may all be coincidence. AND, who knows, compared to a few thousand years from now people may well consider our current time to be extremely primitive.

As to when 3D entities will cease to exist on the Earth, I can't argue with your suggested timeline, but I would point that it is based upon the assumption that the current 3D lifespan will hold sway after most 4D negative Harvestable entities have left. Recall that in early 3D, when life was more in keeping with the Law of One, the typical lifespan was 900 years. I don't see why 3D lives couldn't significantly increase after 2012.

You mean 3D/4D D.A. entities, right? Since 3d-only entities will be phased out after the end of the cycle. It could be! I suppose it depends on how much more harmonious the world and it's population becomes once that occurs. But assuming it does become so as I suspect it will, I can see no reason why they shouldn't live longer. It may be worth more discussion. Considering that the average life span of a 4th density entity is 90,000 years, we might expect some ramp-up towards that figure. (and, that 90k figure also merits more discussion, it certainly is a paradigm change for humanity, no?)

Lastly, I would reiterate that IMHO, 4D has already begun in that there are 3D positively Harvested entities now incarnate with 4D bodies activated which enable them to use 4D light and vibrations (which are already present) to perform 4D work.

I think certainly we are starting to feel the effects of 4th density as it nears it's sunrise, but I do not think it has actually started, or will start officially until 3rd density is officially finished. Ra spoke of the 'galactic clock' as regards the start and end of cycles, which I think implies a good deal of precision. Our agreement on this is not really necessary to continue this D.A. discussion though.

I'll leave it here and offer you a chance to make any comments on the above before opening another line of thought I have rolling around in my noggin.

[3D Sunset]

Hi Lavazza,

Just a couple of points of clarification of my earlier statement for the purpose of ensuring that I was not misunderstood. I realize that a couple of my points are slightly at odds with your perspective, but that is as it should be, and we are probably 98% in agreement.

The first, second and third wave of wanderers was something I picked up from an interview with Carla. In reading the text again I see that my memory has fudged the dates just a bit. Here is a quote

Thanks for the reference, when I had read that previously, I thought Carla was identifying three categories of wanderers more so than timeframes. But I understand your reference now.

I would only comment on your above paragraph that I do not think that the Wanderers are the only ones who are important when it comes to waking up and adding to the call. Any entity who does so is of aid.

You are right of course, I was pointing to the low hanging fruit as it were, since Wanderers come with the primary agenda of awakening and adding to positive planetary polarization. Most others incarnate with the agenda of learning and evolving first and awakening when the time is right. But you are absolutely right that any that caller, will double the Call.

Consider our comparatively primitive standards of life for at least 74,800 of those years. We've only enjoyed such luxuries for 0.25% of our major cycle.

There are records that would indicate that some previous civilizations (Atlantis, Mu, Lumeria, etc.) may have had far greater technology than we have today. It is clear that civilizations and even spirituality follow cycles, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that those cycles followed the 3D minor cycles as well. So perhaps it is cause, perhaps it is effect and perhaps it is coincidence. My suspicion is that it is a little of each.

You mean 3D/4D D.A. entities, right? Since 3d-only entities will be phased out after the end of the cycle.

Perhaps we are getting wrapped around the end/start of 3D/4D again, but I really did mean 3D entities. My point being that even if no new 3D entities are born after 2012, then those that are incarnate still need to live out their lives. Your time frame stated that the last 3D entity would die around 2130, which presupposes that our current 3D maximum lifespan (around 120 years) will hold sway after 2012. I was just making the point that in a significantly more harmonious environment, that lifespan could easily extend to several hundred years, even for native 3D entities. I expect that the DAEs (Dual Activated Entities, I'm moving to shorthand), would have lifespans that could exceed a thousand years, if they chose to remain as DAEs. As I understand it, in 4D and beyond, the process of death and rebirth is viewed more like trading in an old car for a new one once it starts wearing out. Certainly death and rebirth have much less significance in a world without the veil.

I think certainly we are starting to feel the effects of 4th density as it nears it's sunrise, but I do not think it has actually started, or will start officially until 3rd density is officially finished. Ra spoke of the 'galactic clock' as regards the start and end of cycles, which I think implies a good deal of precision. Our agreement on this is not really necessary to continue this D.A. discussion though.

A difference of opinion. You see a single definitive line separating 3D and 4D, I see a blending of colors going from Yellow/Green today to Green/Yellow in a few years, to increasingly greener green until the yellow attenuates completely in a few hundred years. To me, we are currently living during a time when both 3D and 4D work can be done. That is to say that the 4D sun is rising before the 3D sun has completely set. (For what it's worth, here's my complete analogy.. I think of it as the predawn 4D light filling the sky just before the 4D sun breaks the eastern horizon, occurring simultaneously as the 3D sun is just passing beneath the western horizon. There will be a brief instant - around 12/21/2012 - when both and neither sun(s) are actually visible. After that moment, it's primarily a 4D world, even though 3D entities continue to exist until their light is all gone.)

My main point though is that the time is ripe for 4D work to begin, and I do think that it can be by those DAEs incarnate today.

With this said, I'm ready to move on... Shall we?

3D Sunset

[Lavazza]

Ah, I completely forgot about the "hidden" civilizations (hidden from our history that is) in my consideration of technological advances. It may well indeed be that many civilizations have come and gone, risen and fallen as it were, with any level of technological sophistry. Atlantis existed and was destroyed right around the mid-way point (a very rough approximation on my part) of our last minor 25,000 year cycle. Well, we'll leave the speculation there for another time perhaps.

I see now what you mean with the lifespans topic. I guess we'll start to see these effects in the next 20 or so years if indeed our theory is correct.

As for the rising of the 4th d. sun and the setting of the 3rd d. sun, we're actually on the exact same page with this. I think that's exactly what is and what will happen. The only difference is that I still choose to put a specific marker on that exact point (Dec 21st 2012 12:21Pm perhaps) in which scholars will someday say "Yes, that's exactly when 4th density started, my son". That specific point doesn't mean anything else in my opinion, I.e. no hand of god reaching down out of the clouds, or other "instantaneousist" ideas. So in short, we're about 98-99% agreed as you said.

---

So, what I'm wondering about next is this concept of Earth becoming abandoned, and eventually re inhabited with 3rd density entities. Also the idea of 4th density learning to become invisible to said 3rd density entities. What exactly does this mean to you?

I take it... the "abandoning" by 3rd density is the natural die-off that we've already covered ground with. Will then 3rd density evolve from 2nd density in a similar fashion that has already happened with our 3rd density? I.e. certain groups of apes (or maybe some other species this time) will become more and more aware, and via Darwinian evolution become self-aware beings? Or will 3rd density return to Earth again by some other means?

Then the learning by 4th density to become invisible. I have trouble with this idea, unless it is explained by different dimensions of reality or space/time? At this point on earth we have a large population with many cities and other obvious things. Is it that we learn to make every trace of our existence invisible like a super-hero would, or is it that we actually exist in a different realty? But if the former, what is there to learn exactly? I am obviously quite confused.

This also raises additional confusion on my part of what Quo and friends mean when they say that 4th density Earth already exists along side 3rd density Earth. Metaphor? Or extra dimension? Or... fancy way of saying we are getting 4th density light at this time?

This tributary of asking branches far off from the original subject of the thread I realize. But we have such a good dialog and collection of information here that I am reluctant to start a new thread

[fairyfarmgirl]

The other day I was in the store and person after person simply did not see me... They ran into me with their carts, walked into me--- and grabbed the same Item I was in the process of taking off the shelf at the same time--- in all instances each person was astonished to see me standing there... like I was not really there until I showed myself to them because well being stepped on is painful--- it slows you down and in their busy low 3D world it seemed that I suddenly appeared but I had been there all along. This is what I believe the Beings mean when they say that 4th D already exists alongside 3D density. We are co-habituating the same frequency range at this time.

fairyfarmgirl

[3D Sunset]

Hi Lavazza,

One thing I like about this thread is that it allows us to expand the envelope of Ra's material. The down side of course is that much of it is only well informed (through both study and intuition) and well intentioned speculation. So please take everything I say as fodder for discussion, and not even necessarily my conviction on these topics. I welcome questions, opposing views, and challenges. As a group, I think we can reach a reasonable consensus. In time, we may take some of these ideas forward to Q'uo for discussion. With that caveat, I'll jump in...

So, what I'm wondering about next is this concept of Earth becoming abandoned, and eventually re inhabited with 3rd density entities. Also the idea of 4th density learning to become invisible to said 3rd density entities. What exactly does this mean to you?

I take it... the "abandoning" by 3rd density is the natural die-off that we've already covered ground with. Will then 3rd density evolve from 2nd density in a similar fashion that has already happened with our 3rd density? I.e. certain groups of apes (or maybe some other species this time) will become more and more aware, and via Darwinian evolution become self-aware beings? Or will 3rd density return to Earth again by some other means?

First we need to explore what it really means to have Earth's 3D (or 4D) body activated. Don Elkins never seemed to be satisfied with his grasp of this topic either, so I realize that it is an abstract concept, but I am a simple man, so I try to simplify things to make them easier for me to grasp. To me, a planet's xD body is activated if it is receiving xD light and interacting with xD entities incarnate on that plane. The extent to which it is activated, is a function of the number of entities interacting with it. So today we have both Earth's 3D and 4D bodies active (as well as 1D and 2D obviously). Thusly, when Earth is no longer receiving 3D light and has no 3D entities on it, it's 3D body fades out and moves from an activated to a potentiated state.

As to where future 3D entities may come, I can speculate here as well. Notice that according to biologists, homo sapiens have been around in essentially this bodily configuration for around 150,000 years (i.e.,more than the 75,000 years of 3D existence). So it is plausible to think that the current form could actually "devolve" back into a 2D form simultaneous with the DAEs evolving into 4D. This is something that never occurred to me until you asked the question, but I see it as plausible as the complete elimination of homo sapiens and the future re-evolution of a similar bipedal form. We can explore this fascinating concept in greater detail if you are you'd like.

Then the learning by 4th density to become invisible. I have trouble with this idea, unless it is explained by different dimensions of reality or space/time? At this point on earth we have a large population with many cities and other obvious things. Is it that we learn to make every trace of our existence invisible like a super-hero would, or is it that we actually exist in a different realty? But if the former, what is there to learn exactly? I am obviously quite confused.

Here again, I'm working without a net, but my instinct is to think that the entities themselves (once fully evolved to 4D form, not DAEs) will be able to cloak their existence from 3D beings through thought. As to the structures, etc. of their existence, I have a few possible solutions. It is possible that 1) they will be able to cloak entire cities that are made of 1D materials, 2) they will be able to effectively hide the entrances to those cities, or 3) that they will be made of 4D material that is simply not visible to 3D entities. My inclination is toward #2, but I'm confident that it would be fairly easy for a 4D entity to control a 3D entity's mind if it were necessary to stay within the Law of Confusion. It does make sense that these techniques would need to be learned.

This also raises additional confusion on my part of what Quo and friends mean when they say that 4th density Earth already exists along side 3rd density Earth. Metaphor? Or extra dimension? Or... fancy way of saying we are getting 4th density light at this time?

Following on the discussion about 3D Earth going into potentiation, I see the full activation of Earth's 4D body as happening through a combination of the increasing 4D light available and a pulling force cause by the DAEs beginning to interact with it - sort of pulling it into full activation. I think that there are several examples around this site of DAEs that are presently (and unknowingly) interacting with Earth's increasingly space/time manifest 4D body. Both fairyfarmgirl (in post #13 above) and akhtu among others recently described examples (to me at least) of these interactions. I think that these experiences would be fascinating to explore and compare in more detail on this thread, if we consider them as experiences of DAE's on the 4D Earth. (By the way, yes I am saying that I believe fairyfarmgirl, akhtu, Eddie, you Lavazza, and others are DAEs.) What you hear in these discussions are people that occupy the same space/time, but are clearly on a different "plane".

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[Lavazza]

Hello 3D! I hope you don't mind my staccato response patterns, as I've gotten busy in-between my posts. But it's afforded me some time to further ponder and formulate a response as well.

To me, a planet's xD body is activated if it is receiving xD light and interacting with xD entities incarnate on that plane. The extent to which it is activated, is a function of the number of entities interacting with it. So today we have both Earth's 3D and 4D bodies active (as well as 1D and 2D obviously). Thusly, when Earth is no longer receiving 3D light and has no 3D entities on it, it's 3D body fades out and moves from an activated to a potentiated state.

I agree with the above, but wanted to comment. Perhaps there really isn't a 3D Sunset (sorry, couldn't resist) in our working. Because if 3D is to eventually evolve and rise again on Earth, it would need such light to work with, no? Rather that the 4D Sunrise is so bright that 3D entities will only be temporarily denied incarnation ahccess ere, which allows time for the mysterious 4D cloaking / learning to occur. 3D in other words goes in to potentiation as you said, but perhaps this only means that the light is still here to work with, just that it's not going to be used for a while? Or do you think this theory is wrong and that the 3d sun will rise again at some other galactic clock time, shining in the sky along side the 4d (and 2d, 1d) sun again?

So it is plausible to think that the current form could actually "devolve" back into a 2D form simultaneous with the DAEs evolving into 4D. This is something that never occurred to me until you asked the question, but I see it as plausible as the complete elimination of homo sapiens and the future re-evolution of a similar bipedal form. We can explore this fascinating concept in greater detail if you are you'd like.

Gladly! What do you mean exactly by devolve? It seems to go against nature to see a species devolve if you are meaning in the Darwinian sense (becoming stupider and stupider? (I am resisting inserting political jokes here)). Rather I think our species, Homosapians, will simply evolve in to something else in 4th density so that the Homosapian terminology will no longer really apply. ("Light-bodies", etc.)

Here again, I'm working without a net, but my instinct is to think that the entities themselves (once fully evolved to 4D form, not DAEs) will be able to cloak their existence from 3D beings through thought. As to the structures, etc. of their existence, I have a few possible solutions.

For me the third scenario makes the most sense, and sort of goes along with my theory that we're talking about separate space/time dimensions. The first two cases you outlined have some inherent problems that a lot of sci-fi movies capitalize on with invisibility. That is- someone accidentally bumping in to something that's invisible. That's a pretty big law of confusion buster right there! But there are other issues such as the need to share Earth's natural resources between 3rd and 4th density populations. Or suppose the next 3rd density on Earth turns out to be very similar to ours, and they invent nuclear bombs that could possibly impact 4th density entities, or they cause global climate crisis issues which would also be an issue for 4th density.

If you take up the interpretation that "learning to become invisible to 3rd density" means learning how to live more and more in a different dimension of reality altogether (similar to how Ra exists outside of our reality) I think it becomes a bit more elegant.

Although I should point out and be my own devils advocate that we don't exactly know what time line we're working with for the next 3rd density to arrive. If it's a long time, say a billion years, it may well be that all traces of our civilization as we know it now would well have vanished as the Earth recycles everything eventually. (Mars for example). There's a great History channel documentary about this phenomenon called "Life after People". Things like streets and concrete vanish surprisingly fast thanks to plant life. Steel structures and large things like the Hoover dam take longer, but they point out that after a certain amount of time elapses, the Earth would be as virgin again as it was when the Dinosaurs were around. I see no reason why that couldn't be the case before the next 3rd density.

The next 3rd density also may not be bipedal humanoids that we are. They may be aquatic, subterranean or plant like beings that might not be easily aware of 4th density life anyways. And maybe our future here on Earth is in floating cities high above the clouds? Any of these scenarios could play out. Without more information (or a safety net) as you mentioned earlier, we're free to speculate.

Following on the discussion about 3D Earth going into potentiation, I see the full activation of Earth's 4D body as happening through a combination of the increasing 4D light available and a pulling force cause by the DAEs beginning to interact with it - sort of pulling it into full activation. I think that there are several examples around this site of DAEs that are presently (and unknowingly) interacting with Earth's increasingly space/time manifest 4D body. Both fairyfarmgirl (in post #13 above) and akhtu among others recently described examples (to me at least) of these interactions. I think that these experiences would be fascinating to explore and compare in more detail on this thread, if we consider them as experiences of DAE's on the 4D Earth. (By the way, yes I am saying that I believe fairyfarmgirl, akhtu, Eddie, you Lavazza, and others are DAEs.) What you hear in these discussions are people that occupy the same space/time, but are clearly on a different "plane".

No argument from me on this point! Although it may lead me to speculate on my own status as a D.A.E., considering I have never had paranormal, psychic or meaningful "veil piercing" spiritual experiences myself. The only thing I can accredit myself with is an insatiable hunger for a greater meaning over this last year, which has subverted almost all of my free time away from hobbies and in to metaphysical research. May be that that is my hallmark Yet many 3rd density entities share this attribute. Well whichever it is I am content as you are to share, love and experience the creation and trust that all is well with my path.

[3D Sunset]

I agree with the above, but wanted to comment. Perhaps there really isn't a 3D Sunset (sorry, couldn't resist) in our working. Because if 3D is to eventually evolve and rise again on Earth, it would need such light to work with, no? Rather that the 4D Sunrise is so bright that 3D entities will only be temporarily denied incarnation access here, which allows time for the mysterious 4D cloaking / learning to occur. 3D in other words goes in to potentiation as you said, but perhaps this only means that the light is still here to work with, just that it's not going to be used for a while? Or do you think this theory is wrong and that the 3d sun will rise again at some other galactic clock time, shining in the sky along side the 4d (and 2d, 1d) sun again?

I tend to believe the latter, but I'll admit that the Ra material is ambiguous on this. Much is made about the "core vibration" already being 4D rather than 3D. I tend to call this the associated "Light" which is distinct from the light we receive from our sun. There is more to consider along these lines, but ultimately, I don't think it is pertinent to topic at hand, so I would prefer to let it be.

Gladly! What do you mean exactly by devolve? It seems to go against nature to see a species devolve if you are meaning in the Darwinian sense (becoming stupider and stupider? (I am resisting inserting political jokes here)). Rather I think our species, Homosapians, will simply evolve in to something else in 4th density so that the Homosapian terminology will no longer really apply. ("Light-bodies", etc.)

By "devolve" I simply mean that homo sapiens would revert back to the point that they were prior to the beginning of 3D (and the modifications subsequently made by Yahweh and others), and these would be incarnated by advanced 2D beings, but still 2D beings working toward the opportunity to graduate to 3D either here or on a different 3D planet. At the same time, I see the DAEs evolving forward into 4D beings as we stated earlier.

That is- someone accidentally bumping in to something that's invisible. That's a pretty big law of confusion buster right there! But there are other issues such as the need to share Earth's natural resources between 3rd and 4th density populations.

By cloaking, I mean much more than hiding from sight. Per Ra's description below, it means "cannot be seen or determined from any instrumentation available to any third-density".

Questioner: Then as the fourth-density vibrations come in this means that the planet can support entities of fourth-density core vibration. Will the planet then still be first-density core vibration and will there be second density entities on it with second-density vibrations, and will there be third density entities on it with third-density vibrations?

Ra: You must see the Earth, as you call it, as being seven Earths. There is red, orange, yellow, and there will soon be a completed green color vibratory locus for fourth-density entities which they will call Earth. During the fourth-density experience, due to the lack of development of fourth density entities, the third-density planetary sphere is not useful for habitation since the early fourth-density entity will not know precisely how to maintain the illusion that fourth-density cannot be seen or determined from any instrumentation available to any third-density.

Thus in fourth-density the red, orange, and green energy nexi of your planet will be activated while the yellow is in potentiation along with the blue and the indigo.

If you take up the interpretation that "learning to become invisible to 3rd density" means learning how to live more and more in a different dimension of reality altogether (similar to how Ra exists outside of our reality) I think it becomes a bit more elegant.

I agree, but be careful not to confuse living in a different dimension with living in time/space rather than space/time. I tend to shy away from that phrase for that reason. This can easily become another long tangent, but it is important to remember that all spiritual growth through experience happens in space/time and not time/space. Time/space is used for intricately and intimately reviewing those lessons learned and experiences gained in space/time. This holds sway for 4D, 5D and 6D as well as 3D. That is why birth, death and even mundane activities like eating exist in these later densities of space/time. So, you are correct, but bear in mind that this "new dimension" (or as Ra refers to it, the "different plane") is still an extension of space/time and must exist within the constraints of space/time.

The next 3rd density also may not be bipedal humanoids that we are. They may be aquatic, subterranean or plant like beings that might not be easily aware of 4th density life anyways. And maybe our future here on Earth is in floating cities high above the clouds? Any of these scenarios could play out. Without more information (or a safety net) as you mentioned earlier, we're free to speculate.

It is my understanding that our galactic Logos chose the bipedal human form for all its 3D experiences. So, in our galaxy, I think that what you say is incorrect, although it certainly is possible elsewhere. (In the interest of brevity, I'll leave out the quotes here, but PM me if you'd to see them.)

No argument from me on this point! Although it may lead me to speculate on my own status as a D.A.E., considering I have never had paranormal, psychic or meaningful "veil piercing" spiritual experiences myself. The only thing I can accredit myself with is an insatiable hunger for a greater meaning over this last year, which has subverted almost all of my free time away from hobbies and in to metaphysical research. May be that that is my hallmark Yet many 3rd density entities share this attribute. Well whichever it is I am content as you are to share, love and experience the creation and trust that all is well with my path.

Of course, I may be totally wrong on this point, but I'd like to explore it some if you and others are willing. As to your personal experiences, I would say that you are still early in your journey and simply haven't checked all the boxes yet. Put another way, I would say that you have not yet awakened to 4D experiences, whereas others are beginning to. It seems to me that your current state (assuming you are a DAE) is more akin to lucid dreaming than awakening. You are conscious of the fact that you dream, but have not yet awakened to 4D reality (or as much of it as can be experienced by a DAE). I am convinced however that there is a substantive difference between the limits of what can be experienced by piercing the veil as a 3D or DAE and experiencing the 4D Earth by a DAE. By comparison, a 3D entity is vastly restricted in what may be experienced.

I would suggest to you that there is much to be learned from (in particular) fairyfarmgirl, akhtu, and Ali Quadir about the true 4D awakening process. I also feel that achieving this awakening involves using some intuitive, receptive, female energies that you may not be well in touch with. I would suggest also that your recent spiritual movement has coincided with your becoming a father which inherently brings a man more in touch with his innate female energies of caring, nurturing, and acceptance that will serve you in this effort. Separately, and perhaps paradoxically, men tend to view love as a giving process, but must also recognize it as a receiving one.

Enough for now,

3D Sunset

[fairyfarmgirl]

Being a dual Activated Entity begins with opening of the HEART and the MIND--- not one or the other--- but both.

The HEART is the place of inner Knowing and Illumination and unconditional LOVE--- it is the seat of the Soul. The MIND is the place of inner Seeking and Insight and seeks unconditional LOVE--- it is the seat of the Spirit. Both have to be working together to be dual activated.

A way to begin is to begin learning about ones Chakras and inherent energy system. As you learn about your energy system you will then come to new insights as to how your energy system works... you will start to feel a sense of WONDER concerning the universe around you. Male tend to feel unconditional LOVE as a sense of WONDER (or in a state of AWE).

A Female tends to feel unconditional Love as a sense of Complete Connection to the All that Is. When both are combined Divinity is created within: the activation of the Human as the Human Angel (which we all are whether we choose to activate or not it is a birthright of all of Humanity). In this sense, Angel = Activated full-Sensoried human being.

All humans have both male and female energies. When the inner male and female merge this is when the Dual Activation begins. In scientific terms it is the activation of the Pineal Gland and the opening of the HEART Chakra the Thymus becomes larger and the Brain begins to become whole again. The Thymus is the Higher HEART when the HEART becomes activated and then the Thymus this is what is meant by opening the HEART. It is not necessarily a Hallmark Moment-- or courtly Love but an opening to the Connection to All that Is. A merging with the Love that is Life. Life=Love: Life is all around you and within you... there is no place where Life (vibration) is not. Life therefore = Love. Love is the stuff that Life is made of. Love= Source Energy. Source Energy=Oneness.

The opening of the HEART is best experienced gradually in a series of steps toward opening. When the HEART is opened suddenly this confuses the Mind and leads to a sort of energy sickness that many people experience as mental illness. For some, the opening of the HEART will take their lifetime--- for others over a series of months or years... It depends upon your intent, function, soul plan, life factors, BS etc.

Here are some resources to consider:
Heart Chakra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocEDiSALdU0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I83tsZzCED4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcZAlA29X04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4_SJC84DpQ


Chakra System
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gpjJUbPfzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMxKffswZ1Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1UEXBXNyyQ

Love--

fairyfarmgirl

[Lavazza]

3d and fairyfarmgirl, these last two posts have hit home with me. I obviously have much to learn from both of you, I feel so fortunate to have the opportunity here. I'm out of time for the present but hopefully will get a chance to write a real response later today.

[Lorna]

wow i'm learning so much from this thread, don't think i have much to contribute at the moment but wanted to express my appreciation for your discussions

[Lavazza]

Good morning!

By "devolve" I simply mean that homo sapiens would revert back to the point that they were prior to the beginning of 3D (and the modifications subsequently made by Yahweh and others), and these would be incarnated by advanced 2D beings, but still 2D beings working toward the opportunity to graduate to 3D either here or on a different 3D planet. At the same time, I see the DAEs evolving forward into 4D beings as we stated earlier.

Not to make a mountain out of a mole-hill as this is not the most important thing, but who would be left on Earth to keep the Homo sapians in production since the only ones remaining on Earth after the transition will be DAE's or 4D's? Working from the assumption that DAE's and 4D's only produce more DAE's (and eventually, only) 4D's.

By cloaking, I mean much more than hiding from sight. Per Ra's description below, it means "cannot be seen or determined from any instrumentation available to any third-density".

I agree, but be careful not to confuse living in a different dimension with living in time/space rather than space/time.

I understand what you mean now. Yes, this is very much in line with what I have also understood. It's basically what I call an 'extra dimension' or 'other dimension', so once again we have the same idea but are putting slightly different terminology on it. And yes I also agree, we're dealing with a different plane or dimension of space/time and not time/space.

It is my understanding that our galactic Logos chose the bipedal human form for all its 3D experiences. So, in our galaxy, I think that what you say is incorrect, although it certainly is possible elsewhere. (In the interest of brevity, I'll leave out the quotes here, but PM me if you'd to see them.)

Whoops! Yes, you are right on that. I totally forgot that the bi-ped information was given by Ra.

Of course, I may be totally wrong on this point, but I'd like to explore it some if you and others are willing. As to your personal experiences, I would say that you are still early in your journey and simply haven't checked all the boxes yet...

I would suggest to you that there is much to be learned from (in particular) fairyfarmgirl, akhtu, and Ali Quadir about the true 4D awakening process. I also feel that achieving this awakening involves using some intuitive, receptive, female energies that you may not be well in touch with. I would suggest also that your recent spiritual movement has coincided with your becoming a father which inherently brings a man more in touch with his innate female energies of caring, nurturing, and acceptance that will serve you in this effort. Separately, and perhaps paradoxically, men tend to view love as a giving process, but must also recognize it as a receiving one.

This information resonated when I read it. I didn't correlate before now the seeming coincidence of becoming a father and then roughly a year later becoming intensely interested in my spirituality and the esoteric in general. I am totally open to exploring this personal aspect of my development further on this thread so that others who may be following could gain similar insight. I do not mean to subvert the thread towards my own personal development, but since I may be a DAE (?) in the process of activation, it may be a worthwhile investigation. Anyone else who suspects the same of themselves should also throw down and join the fray!

4th density is characterized most prominently with Love. Is this why feminine energy is important to embrace when it comes to attempting to 'activate' in harmony with 4th density light?

I'm a little confused about what it means to embrace my feminine side. Does this correspond to a simple shift in mindset, so that it trickles down to every other aspect (actions, etc) of one's life?

Is it just a matter of developing the feminine side, or are there other things one could do? Or things one could cease doing? I realize this question is very open ended and may not yield clear results.

A way to begin is to begin learning about ones Chakras and inherent energy system. As you learn about your energy system you will then come to new insights as to how your energy system works... you will start to feel a sense of WONDER concerning the universe around you. Male tend to feel unconditional LOVE as a sense of WONDER (or in a state of AWE).

Hello fairy farm girl, thanks for participating! As it happens, just this last week my wife and I have become very interested in investigating the Chakras, specifically as they relate to un-blocking and keeping clear the lower Chakras. We bought a book that's en-route to us now. I'm really excited to tap in to this knowledge because the Chakra system as a whole seems to be a good working base for living a good life. A center for each aspect of life, what could be easier? And it includes a spiritual component which you usually won't find in self-help books, etc.

I found some resonance in the last portion of the above quote. Maybe this is related...

I find a large sense of wonder when I look at my children, and when I look at the heavens. With the kids I just am amazed at how infinitely complex little beings they are, so many subtle things happening in their minds at all times, and how they derive such large amounts of joy from some of the simplest and innocent things. And how upset they can become from similarly simple things! They're so honest and raw with their emotions. I mean, when something makes them upset, man do they show it with all of their body mind and soul. It's really humbling. And when they laugh it just makes you want to sing to god in thanks. That amazes me and fills me with awe every day.

And my awe with the heavens requires little explanation perhaps... Consider the 'deep field' images Nasa has produced with the Hubble: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap040309.html It's just so big, and we're so small, and all of it is so beautiful. I could get really poetic but I'll spare you on this one. I'm just so awestruck every time I think about the cosmos.

Are these the types of AWE in which you speak?

Also, I have another Chakra question that just popped in to my mind. (somewhat unrelated, anyone feel free to jump in) In the Ra material Ra speaks about how insanity can come about if one is attempting to jump ahead and activate some of the higher chakras without doing the ground work first with the lower chakras. Does this only apply to the higher chakras, or is there danger in attempting to open the HEART chakra if some of your lower (red, orange or yellow) chakras are blocked to some degree? Or does this not apply to anything lower than green?

I will investigate those Youtube links. Thank you!

[fairyfarmgirl]

It is the sudden rise of the Kundalini that causes a mental illness that looks like schizophrenia but is not... The sudden piercing of the veil and the rushing in of the unseen is too much for the Mind.

The opening of the HEART instills a sense of wonder/awe for the male and a sense of connectedness/oneness for the female... both are expressions of Unconditional Love. Both Male and Female aspects reside within the Human Being... so by developing your Feminine aspect you are developing the connectedness/oneness with all that is... this is a knowing/BE-ing not a Do-ing... the Male aspect is always concerned with the Do-ing... so when a males HEART opens for the first time they are in a sense of Wonder/AWE about all that is... not just somethings that hold their fascination... but all of CREATION at all TIMES... this coupled with the Feminine aspect being developed you have achieved a measure of activation... Dual activation that is. For in this place of Wonder/AWE and Connectedness/Oneness one sees the Universe as the One that it is-- at first it comes in glimpses and then for longer moments... eventually it is a state of being that is at all times everywhere.

With the opening of the HEART the whole chakra systems balances automatically. It is the HEART of the Matter so to speak. To rise the kundalini without opening the HEART creates imbalance... It is the HEART that matters.

Love--

elizabeth

[3D Sunset]

Not to make a mountain out of a mole-hill as this is not the most important thing, but who would be left on Earth to keep the Homo sapians in production since the only ones remaining on Earth after the transition will be DAE's or 4D's? Working from the assumption that DAE's and 4D's only produce more DAE's (and eventually, only) 4D's.

Even though this is a little off topic, its interesting to explore, so I'll explain a little further. Recall that what makes us 3D entities is not really our body complex, it is the addition to the mind/body complex of an individuated soul, thus making it a mind/body/spirit complex. It is certainly possible that homo sapiens could be born (or perhaps even are already being born) that are, in reality 2D mind/body complexes which share an undividuated group soul.

What I find most interesting about this possibility, is that it would mean that even after 2012, human beings could still be born that are not DAEs, and are not necessarily even destined to become 3D entities. This also helps resolve the problem of childbirth for non DAEs after 2012. In the event that there is not a massive die-off of nonharvestable people around that time, then it seems a little hard to fathom that either most people will cease having children, or that all children that are born are DAEs. In this scenario, children would continue to be born, but rather than evolving toward 4D, they would participate in the decline of civilization that would ultimately result in 2D homo sapiens. I'm not saying that I'm now inclined to believe this, but I think it is an intriguing theory that may be worth additional thought.

This information resonated when I read it. I didn't correlate before now the seeming coincidence of becoming a father and then roughly a year later becoming intensely interested in my spirituality and the esoteric in general. I am totally open to exploring this personal aspect of my development further on this thread so that others who may be following could gain similar insight. I do not mean to subvert the thread towards my own personal development, but since I may be a DAE (?) in the process of activation, it may be a worthwhile investigation. Anyone else who suspects the same of themselves should also throw down and join the fray!

Is it just a matter of developing the feminine side, or are there other things one could do? Or things one could cease doing? I realize this question is very open ended and may not yield clear results.

The process that to you go through (chakra balancing, opening of the heart, etc.) will benefit you regardless of whether or not you are a DAE. If you are a DAE you will progress more quickly and be able to go farther than if you are not. This knowledge will also serve you well to help work your children through the process if/when necessary.

Speaking from my personal experience, I have been working with the processes for over 20 years and reached a plateau after about 3-5 years. Since then I continue to focus on the balancing process, which is needed daily and am quite at peace with the world and my position in it. I long ago gained the conviction that everything that happens, happens for a reason, it just may not be evident what that reason is to those of us actually experiencing the "things".

As to my experiences of piercing the veil, they are mainly through strong intuitive feelings, and lucid and symbolic dreams which I've learned to interpret through the years. I astral traveled a few times when I was young (less than 12), and only once since I became an adult. I am completely amazed and awed by many of the stories that others tell on this site about their more personal and physical experiences of spirit guides and transcendental and spiritual experiences that have ever eluded me.

This is why I recommended that you listen to other members that have experienced things orders of magnitude more awesome than I. Noticing the ages of many of those who have had these experiences, led me to suggest that they may, indeed, be DAEs. My suggestion that you are also, is more an intuitive impression that I get from our exchanges. It may well be that none of them are, in which case they are still better teach/learners on this topic, since they have clearly gone much farther, in a shorter time, than have I.

As to activating your feminine energies, I think fairyfarmgirl has given you some excellent advice and insight. I made the suggestion to you for two reasons. First, I felt (intuition again) that I should mention it, and second I've noticed that most if not all of the stories about awakening that I've heard, involve a very conscious letting go of the male energy of doing and require the more passive female energy of accepting and experiencing (again, like fairyfarmgirl said). This is part of the balancing process that I too work with daily. Male energies drive us to constantly dominate, manage, and control our environment, whereas female energies tend to accept, nurture and embrace our environment. The point is not that one is better than the other, but both must be present and balanced and used appropriately during the process.

You seem to have an abundance of male energies, so I am suggesting that you seek to balance these with more female energies. This is particularly easy to do with a new born in the house. I'm sure that you already take turns feeding, bathing and interacting with the new addition. I always found that this was a good way to get in touch with those energies. Just a suggestion.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

[Lavazza]

With the opening of the HEART the whole chakra systems balances automatically. It is the HEART of the Matter so to speak. To rise the kundalini without opening the HEART creates imbalance... It is the HEART that matters.

Thank you Elizabeth

In this scenario, children would continue to be born, but rather than evolving toward 4D, they would participate in the decline of civilization that would ultimately result in 2D homo sapiens. I'm not saying that I'm now inclined to believe this, but I think it is an intriguing theory that may be worth additional thought.

It doesn't seem likely to me that this scenario will play out- but of course this is all I can say since we do not really have any information to draw from and prop up our positions. So we'll have to watch and see how things go. I'll make you a proposition. When we're both long dead and gone from this life lets meet up in time/space after our life reviews have finished and we have some time to relax. Perhaps a beer or two will be in order. And we'll sit in a lofty place and look down on the Earth as it moves forward in time, and we can compare our notes.

The process that to you go through (chakra balancing, opening of the heart, etc.) will benefit you regardless of whether or not you are a DAE. If you are a DAE you will progress more quickly and be able to go farther than if you are not. This knowledge will also serve you well to help work your children through the process if/when necessary. Speaking from my personal experience, I have been working with the processes for over 20 years and reached a plateau after about 3-5 years. Since then I continue to focus on the balancing process, which is needed daily and am quite at peace with the world and my position in it. I long ago gained the conviction that everything that happens, happens for a reason, it just may not be evident what that reason is to those of us actually experiencing the "things".

I am very glad to hear that the chakra paradigm has worked out so well for you and Elizabeth, and it gives me hope that it can be just as successful with myself. I am so excited to get started with this system. Also, my wife and I have long held the idea that everything happens for a reason, even before we were properly awake. I feel it's true through and through. Another good one: "It's not what happens to you, it's how you handle it".

Male energies drive us to constantly dominate, manage, and control our environment, whereas female energies tend to accept, nurture and embrace our environment. The point is not that one is better than the other, but both must be present and balanced and used appropriately during the process.

You seem to have an abundance of male energies, so I am suggesting that you seek to balance these with more female energies. This is particularly easy to do with a new born in the house. I'm sure that you already take turns feeding, bathing and interacting with the new addition. I always found that this was a good way to get in touch with those energies. Just a suggestion.

This is something I will focus more spiritual attention on. "Be like bamboo" may be a good motto in achieving this. Bamboo which does not break when the wind blows upon it, for it bends. Adjusts to its circumstances, environment, etc. I had never considered that I may be unbalanced with regard to my masculine / feminine energy levels, for indeed I have simply never considered it!

And I'll quickly agree, helping with the kids is helping me embrace more of a nurturing side in me. This last week I was home from work since everyone (poor wife included) fell sick with colds and/or fevers. Taking that entire block of time and dedicating it to tending to the family, or helping maintain the household was refreshing in that sense.