Share your vision for the harvest

[unity100]

im at a loss to even see the basis of what you are saying above. it is clearly said that during harvest the entity is immediately placed into violet body upon death. no kind of review happens. if it was a 'grand review' like you interpret, there wouldnt be a need to again be placed into indigo and review and decide for incarnation.

The 'review' is the healing that happens upon any death of a consciously participating entity, not particular to harvest. All I said was at harvest, this is preceded by the locus and vibrational change where one is 'best-matched' to most appropriate environment according to affinity or resonance.

your proposition seems to transform continually. what is this 'locus and vibrational change' you speak of.

[Bring4th_Austin]

- then it means you have a problem with the death approach in 2011 with almost absolute certainty. its just another problem in the list of problems which cause people to attempt extreme interpretations of things that could not be interpreted.

They're not extreme interpretations. They're rather tame interpretations of very ambiguous words. And this is why this debate is getting outrageous. You think you have the right to throw psychological labels on people who argue against you because we see something that is very obvious to us that has nothing to do with bias or any sort of psychological hangup. I guarantee you I would have no problem dying this second, but I don't see instant harvest as the only interpretation of Ra's words. I find your interpretations to be in the extreme, but I'm not going to say "Well obviously unity, you have something wrong with 3D existence. You can't stand it, so you want harvest to be instant and death to come soon because you no longer like this existence."

Are you a trained psychologist? Have you done an extensive psychological study on a large various group of people who see different interpretations of Ra's words? Have you let your peers review this study to make sure you have no bias of your own affecting the results?

No?

I'm not so sure your diagnosis of people who disagree with you would be objectively accepted then. Objectively, it's even fishier that you're applying it to everyone who happens to disagree with you. How convenient that only those who disagree with you do so out of bias...

- i am not hell bent on proving anything. what i am hell bent on is arguing against blatant denial of things bluntly, directly, clearly told in the material. 'harvest will happen in 2011' does NOT mean 'it will begin'. it means, harvest 'will happen' in 2011. this may be 2012, this may have been 2010, its a different matter and the matter of the 'approximate nexus' you speak of. the approximate nexus Ra has mentioned, fits in a YEAR. not 900 years.

Of all the quotes regarding harvest, you are taking what you want to fit your own view. Even within this own quote, you are ignoring very obvious possibilities of other meanings and having them fit your own view of harvest. It's pointless to discuss with you, because you have set in your mind what you think harvest is and you'll only use quotes, even just PARTS of those quotes, to support that view, and ignore any other quotes which very obviously point towards a different view.

It's very possible that one quote that you constantly fall back on, given Ra's following clarification, was regarding the harvest of entities not in incarnation, which would be a rather grand instant event. The fact Ra even mentions entities not in incarnation instead of "all entities" makes it ambiguous and open for interpretation.

I know you disagree. I know you think Ra was simply clarifying. Maybe they were? Maybe they weren't. I bet you'll choose the option which suits your opinion, and then say anyone who chooses the other, or even acknowledges the other, only does so because they have a psychological bias that doesn't allow them to accept the one you chose.

[zenmaster]

However, the incoming numbers must be huge, which would necessitate more far-reaching systems. How this plays out as far as 'cultural diversity' and new ways of thinking about things.

Hmm, that to me is a lot more exciting than the idea of harvest itself. And it also suggests that moving forward, even if the actual harvest is gradual, a huge variety of exciting changes and new ways of thinking will be popping up everywhere regardless, more and more as we move forward.

The way I see it, some of the challenges of 3D life will be the same on other worlds. Those worlds have solved different problems that others have not, and vice versa. So if these are vaguely remembered due to use of intuition or what not, then the beginning 4D earth will probably see many problems solved in the years ahead. That and also considering earth will be somewhat of a 'society of friends' with slowly increasing psychic and cognitive ability, and lifespan.

---

im at a loss to even see the basis of what you are saying above. it is clearly said that during harvest the entity is immediately placed into violet body upon death. no kind of review happens. if it was a 'grand review' like you interpret, there wouldnt be a need to again be placed into indigo and review and decide for incarnation.

The 'review' is the healing that happens upon any death of a consciously participating entity, not particular to harvest. All I said was at harvest, this is preceded by the locus and vibrational change where one is 'best-matched' to most appropriate environment according to affinity or resonance.

your proposition seems to transform continually. what is this 'locus and vibrational change' you speak of.

Nope, haven't changed it a single time actually. 'locus' is the time/space and space/time positioning within a density - the 'vibrational change'.

[Tenet Nosce]

If you tracked my history, you noticed I have done a complete 180 on this subject. I'm not sure that holding someone's evolution to what comes across on this forum is accurate. Did I come across as stern in my view? If so, my interaction on the forum is misrepresentative.

No, you don't come across as stern in your view to me.

I didn't actually go and read everything that everybody ever said. What I mean was that, in seeing certain dynamics unfold in the thread, I went and looked at people's first post wondering what brought them to this forum, and what questions were predominately on their mind at the time. I noticed that the same personalities seem to keep getting caught up in the same arguments... months and months go by, new threads get started, but the same arguments get hashed out again and again.

.... Also, you seem most stern of all as well. Even just pulling out the Ra quotes and reducing the contact down to "harvest talk" does not take into account the entirety of the material. Honestly, no person of who I have read their opinions is disregarding material and valid interpretations thereof.

I don't mean to come across as unyielding, except to the degree that people want to argue about what Ra actually said. Conclusions drawn from there are up for grabs, in my opinion.

I don't think you were singling me out. I only want to respond because I think you are one who hasn't opened up to my perspective in particular. .... Here is a method for growth= you put yourself in the position of learn/teach. Ask someone "why" instead of "this doesn't support you, look".

I wasn't. Nor am I really trying to single anybody out. I am responding to a couple of general accusations floating through this thread. abridgetoofar referred to people speaking as if their beliefs were the "one true way" and Icaro referring to people speaking with undue "certainty". I am assuming (perhaps wrongly so) that unity100 is not the only person being referred to with these comments.

I actually agree with your methodology for growth, however I thought that I attempted that in the mayan calendar thread, asking you to expand on certain points that didn't make sense to me, given your view, and you pretty much ignored me.

I have never shredded anybody's view on this forum, or made any sort of remarks that I thought were disrespectful towards another person.

Actually, what I have observed on several occasions is that I made a very clear strong points which moved some to applaud me, apparently causing others to harbor negativity toward me because my stated view conflicts with their own, which did not receive such praise.

I am not here for the praise, so there is no reason for anybody to hold it against me. But I am not going to "hide my light under a bushel" because it makes somebody else uncomfortable that my argument got better reviews than theirs.

I am here to deepen my understanding of the Ra material through intelligent conversations with others, and if possible, to express such deeper understandings in written form so that they may be of service to other seekers who come upon this forum. I am here to not only get those AHA! moments, but to document them as they arise in hopes that they might also help others get their own AHA! moments.

My point is not to convince you, or unity100, or abridgetoofar, or Icaro, or zenmaster, et. al. of ANYTHING. I'm not calling anybody stupid, or trying to portray my view as "better" than anybody else's. This seems to be the root of most of the misunderstanding going on here.

I understand that I have a very bold style of writing. I have a bold way of speaking. It is true that my opinions, when present, are fairly strong. But that is only because they are very well thought through. This is not to say they are impervious or free from error. But it is to say that if somebody is going to engage me in argumentation, I am going to expect that they offer some sort of evidence which refutes my view. Not just simply say they "disagree" but not offer a reason why.

If an argument is just going to come down to "Well, that's just what I believe." then there is no point in starting an argument. This includes floating sideways remarks about people without directly calling them out, or making comments that are so vague as to be nonsensical, or any other passive-aggressive type behaviors.

[3DMonkey]

I am quite unsuccessful at explaining my view. I'm pretty much restricted to putting seeds out and keeping my fingers crossed that they will grow. ... If we wanna make this forum about me (hhahahaha, lmao), I can just answers people's questions as if I was a wise guru. LOL, none of us does that

[unity100]

They're not extreme interpretations. They're rather tame interpretations of very ambiguous words.

really ?

so, if someone gives an answer like '2011' to a question that is in the form of 'whether it will happen at a certain date or it will be something that is spread out', that is ambiguous ?

you have redefined ambiguous. this is exactly the problem here. its like tenet says - don asks a specific question. ra gives a specific answer. just like how they always do.

and then someone comes, and slaps it with the word ambiguous. making ANYthing in the material, basically, totally ambiguous.

i can make ANY q/a from the material ambiguous and open to interpretation to the point of being able to say Ra meant exactly the opposite of what they actually said like that :

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#18

here i can effectively say that actually Ra meant that the 150 harvested entities were a social memory complex, despite they explicitly mentioned that they were not.

its ambiguous. because we want it to.

And this is why this debate is getting outrageous. You think you have the right to throw psychological labels on people who argue against you because we see something that is very obvious to us that has nothing to do with bias or any sort of psychological hangup.

excuse me, but if you think any debate is getting outrageous, you or anyone have the option of refraining from discussing. just like how i do in numerous discussions. this would save time and effort for both parties when one of the parties is saying that ...............

really. what im even explaining here.

don asks whether harvest will be at a certain date, or spread out, ra answers it will be at a certain date. arguing it otherwise, pushes the other party to conclude it is due to personal bias. because, there is no way someone would 'interpret' anything in real life so conversely - you go to the grocers, you tell him you want fresh apples, and ask which of the two crates are fresher - the person replies the blue crate. you dont go get the apples from the red crate after that. your question was specific, answer was specific, the result is straightforward. the grocer doesnt mean 'red, or possibly red'.

so if someone who would act in the above manner in his grocer comes up and declares that when Ra answered with a specific date to a question that asked whether harvest would be at a certain time or spread out, they actually meant 900 YEARS, then you can only conclude personal bias, because you dont think that the person in front of you could be linguistically challenged, or outright mentally incapable.

we know that icaro is neither mentally incapable, or linguistically challenged. so, there is no way in hell that he would go out to say that a specific question to a specific answer, actually meant SOMETHING ELSE. in addition, doing that in a serious discussion knowingly, would constitute either trolling to inflame the environment, or total disrespect for the other participants. and as i assume icaro or others doing the same are not at all intending these, i am concluding personal bias. otherwise i would have to conclude something else.

so, please spare me the 'outrageous'. what is outrageous is, someone having to defend that a specific plain answer given to a specific plain question, is actually a specific plain answer to a specific plain question.

I guarantee you I would have no problem dying this second, but I don't see instant harvest as the only interpretation of Ra's words. I find your interpretations to be in the extreme, but I'm not going to say "Well obviously unity, you have something wrong with 3D existence. You can't stand it, so you want harvest to be instant and death to come soon because you no longer like this existence."

you dont need to refrain from saying it. and i would not refrain from answering it. however, you should pay proper attention to discussions before going out and making conclusions, like how i am doing.

i had not at any point got fixated on ANY of these approaches. actually, at one point i had made a long post saying how the material pointed to a harvest in which noone who chose not to leave died, but lived out their lives to whatever extent they could. this stance of mine, has remained for days.

however, after the recent discussions that went on in between tenet and some others prompted me to research, and i have gone deeper to get the information i have outlined in this thread, i saw that what i had formulated before, was not correct.

and here i shared these information, and gave the links to to relevant quotes.

ironically, the people who had an instant harvest and death perceptive did not get enraged or inflamed when i have pointed out my earlier perspective with the non-death harvest, however, when i have shared my new findings that showed a short duration, near harvest with death necessity, i first had encountered constant reiterations, outright denial of PLAIN sentences and answers that were given in quotes, then someone - in this case you - came up and accused me of various stuff, ranging from extreme interpretations to outrageousness this and that. the instant harvest + death people were not so aggravated.

Are you a trained psychologist? Have you done an extensive psychological study on a large various group of people who see different interpretations of Ra's words? Have you let your peers review this study to make sure you have no bias of your own affecting the results?

No?

i may have issues with this 3d planet, and i may be wanting to die, or i may be content with it and not wanting to leave.

neither of these, has caused me to go as far to totally deny something that is explicitly stated in the material i trust. as you can see, my perspective and approach, have totally changed with my new findings in the course of these 2 days. since these two perspectives are totally opposite of each other, one of those would mean to contradict and oppose any bias i would have on this matter.

in this state, it would be rather naive to claim personal bias interference in my perspective.

I'm not so sure your diagnosis of people who disagree with you would be objectively accepted then. Objectively, it's even fishier that you're applying it to everyone who happens to disagree with you. How convenient that only those who disagree with you do so out of bias...

there is no occasion i applied to anyone who happened to be disagree with me. however, when someone refuses a direct answer to a direct and explicit question, and comes up as red instead of blue, it would be ridiculous not to bring biases into table. and please, next time you are inflamed, do not start making up irrelevant nonsense like 'everyone who happens to disagree with you' etc and so on. there is endless amount of discussions here people not only agreed with me but went on to call me a great many variety of things, and the times i have brought any kind of bias into table, are not even a handful.

Of all the quotes regarding harvest, you are taking what you want to fit your own view. Even within this own quote, you are ignoring very obvious possibilities of other meanings and having them fit your own view of harvest. It's pointless to discuss with you, because you have set in your mind what you think harvest is and you'll only use quotes, even just PARTS of those quotes, to support that view, and ignore any other quotes which very obviously point towards a different view.

It's very possible that one quote that you constantly fall back on, given Ra's following clarification, was regarding the harvest of entities not in incarnation, which would be a rather grand instant event. The fact Ra even mentions entities not in incarnation instead of "all entities" makes it ambiguous and open for interpretation.

I know you disagree. I know you think Ra was simply clarifying. Maybe they were? Maybe they weren't. I bet you'll choose the option which suits your opinion, and then say anyone who chooses the other, or even acknowledges the other, only does so because they have a psychological bias that doesn't allow them to accept the one you chose.

no - bring me the quotes regarding harvest that is contrary to a short harvest and death necessity scenario. please do.

we have brought ALL the quotes regarding not only 3rd cycle harvest, but also harvests of entities that were harvested in the 2nd cycle, harvested in between, or dubbed as harvestable in between, and even Ra's own harvest and discussed how did they go about after they have got harvested in their first cycle because there would be no 4d vibrations yet. yes, we did bring all of those quotes into the table. moreover, some of those quotes which I MYSELF have found and brought, have contradicted, and made me change my perspective about no-death, on-demand harvest scenario. therefore, logically, it is impossible that i have been taking 'only what fits with my view'.

the fact that you are shooting from the hip in the form of 'you are taking only what you want to fit your own view' shows you have not at all read this thread, or perceived it, or remember what you read enough to make out who said what.

i find that extremely tiring, and totally disrespectful in regard to the basics of discussion.

[Tenet Nosce]

So annyywayysss... as for my vision of the harvest...

Harvest is contact with intelligent infinity. Something about it seems to indicate a different quality than, for example, the type of contact one might achieve in meditation. I get the sense it will be ongoing, and there will be a certain "time period" or window during which it occurs. But I don't see it going on much past a year.

Those who are able to contact intelligent infinity will likely find that such contact is under a measure of conscious control. As if the volume will be able to be turned up or down, but not necessarily turned off completely.

So what does this mean? I imagine contact with intelligent infinity to be sort of like having access to an oracle. Only the oracle is inside you. An entity would find that, no sooner than a query be formulated in their mind, the response appears. Information of all manner will become immediately accessible. All sorts of "powers" and "abilities" will begin to come online for people.

Only it will become increasingly obvious that not everybody is getting switched on. Some people will appear to be rather oblivious as to what is going on, and will probably become increasingly unstable and chaotic. It will become apparent to those with newfound abilities that it is not, shall we say, a wise choice to express such things around 3D minds.

And so there will develop in each seeker an increased yearning to be in an environment which allows more flexibility to express one's fullness of being. Now being in contact with intelligent infinity, a seeker would start to become aware of the fact that such environments do exist, and exist right here and now. It is what we are referring to as fourth density.

Quite naturally, one will become curious as to how to "travel" to such a place, and intelligent infinity will be more than happy to show them a way. I imagine a period of time where one is able to tune into 3D or 4D at will, or possibly be able to view them both simultaneously.

Also, I see nothing which precludes the possibility of experiencing time as having passed in another reality, yet having little or no time pass in this one. Sort of an Inception-like phenomenon. So imagining traveling to another world, having interactions and conversations with people there, and then returning to this world with no time having passed according to a third observer.

Meanwhile, for the rest of the world, things continue to unravel. Markets collapsing, earth changes, mass chaos, the whole nine yards. Again, those in contact with intelligent infinity will wonder what they can do to bring peace to the world. And then it will dawn on them that the best way to serve a chaotic world of endless misery is to leave it.

I imagine this will bring great joy to the hearts of many as they realize that this was actually what they wanted all along. And so will begin to plot their "escape". Yes, I am thinking this means consciously choosing death. Although I also surmise that there are some hitherto unknown mechanisms of separating consciousness from the body which will become available to those contacting intelligent infinity.

Along with all the appurtenant "inconveniences" of coming to grips with the fact that it doesn't appear that everybody is coming along. And that those who are not coming along might be your family member, or coworker, or BFF. And grappling with the fact that it makes less and less sense to participate in a world desperately clinging to a daily routine of waking up, going to work, taking the kids to soccer practice, and watching reality TV at night before bed.

So there is a great measure of sorrow that will also need to be processed by those who are harvested. This is no small thing. However to be frank, I think it is wishful thinking to believe that one day the sun is just going to come out, and the clouds are going to clear, and everybody is going to be singing cumbaya. Those who did not do the work, do not reap the rewards. And given all the opportunity that has been presented to them, this is truly a sorrowful thing to observe.

Luckily, I have every expectation that, no sooner should a "problem" present itself, then the "solution" will immediately appear. So it doesn't make too much sense to fret about that part.

Eventually, those who have made the choice to depart will get the call. The final preparations will be made, and then they will depart. However that looks to everybody else, who can say? The sky is the limit. Somebody could take a trip to the jungle and never come back. Maybe they just have an accident. This sort of thinking seems abominable to us, but we must admit that, on a soul level, this kind of thinking gets done all the time. Souls contemplating how to bring an incarnation to a close so it can get on with life. But I digress.

Right about this time is when I imagine that the remainder of people left will start experiencing all the "prophecies" coming true. (All the while oblivious to the fact that they are in an increasingly 4D vibration and simply mass projecting their beliefs onto reality.) Jesus returns along with Maitreya Buddha, the next Imam, Krishna, and whatever other saviors are supposedly en route. This also includes the ET ships showing up and offering to evacuate people to new planets. Earth changes continue. Probably at some point the whole Internet and satellites go down.

I think perhaps this can be avoided if those who choose to be harvested leave more quickly. I imagine they would find that the increasing chaos is somehow tied to their continued focus on this plane and misguided attempt to "help" people by forcefully enlightening them. But who can really say?

In any case, when all the dust has settled, whether in one year, ten years, or a thousand years, there will actually be no more dust because 3D earth will no longer exist. To those who remember it, it will seem like a very strange dream, and to those who don't remember it none of it will matter again for a very long time.

So, in a nutshell, harvest is a gift from the universe, intended to make up for the fact that "time" has run out for you.

But maybe it is all just mumbo-jumbo. Heck, maybe my saying it out loud precludes it from happening in "my reality". In any case, should 2012 come and go with nothing going on that we could all agree upon as very "noticeable" and profound, I will still be looking back at this time in my life as a very strange dream and will definitely be focusing my intention on more concrete things like tropical villas and growing my business. And especially, how to grow my business from my tropical villas. Maybe raise a couple kids and have a dog named Fido. It's anybody's guess.

But what won't be heard from me is any apologetics issuing on Ra's behalf. I would be more inclined to write an article about how I spent fifteen years of my life researching, and coming to believe in a false prophecy, and probably would encourage my children to be more materialistic than myself and to forget about any kind of contact with "otherworldly beings" because it is all just purely psychobabble anyway.

[native]

Things we have learned:

- I am clearly an idiot.

- My perceived misunderstanding of advanced spiritual material means I am not genuine in my seeking.

I’m willing to accept that the harvest can be instant..I could care less how it happens. But the material does not convince me because I don’t think a full coherent answer was ever given. In fact, several years ago before having come across the material, I was of the belief that ascension would happen in an instant. Now I don't, but then again I haven't read it as much as others.

[unity100]

Harvest is contact with intelligent infinity. Something about it seems to indicate a different quality than, for example, the type of contact one might achieve in meditation. I get the sense it will be ongoing, and there will be a certain "time period" or window during which it occurs. But I don't see it going on much past a year.

you will find some people who have expressed their experiences that fit with the explanation of intelligent infinity contact experience in the material. and there are similar experiences that are conveyed by different people of different cultures and times throughout history.

one thing that is common, is the impossibility to put into words, the desire to share, and that it does not last long - physical body cannot handle it.

not too surprising though, since intelligent infinity would be the highest theoretical vibration that could be experienced in this octave. therefore, its an impossibility for someone in physical body to continually handle. this should not be too different with a planet - a planet vibrating yet in 3-4d vibrations would act similarly when met with intelligent infinity.

if we remember that, even reaching that level of vibration in this octave takes an entire octave and is not attainable before end 7d, the conclusion comes out clear - a vibration form in 3-4d could not handle intelligent infinity for prolonged periods.

[3DMonkey]

Let me try to make myself more clear regarding this analogy/allegory/abstract view.

Tenet, you brought up something I think is an elephant in the room- what is contact with intelligent infinity?

Firstly, the mind must be known to itself. This is perhaps the most demanding part of healing work. If the mind knows itself then the most important aspect of healing has occurred, for consciousness is the microcosm of the Law of One.

The second part has to do with the disciplines of the body complexes. In the streamings reaching your planet at this time, these understandings and disciplines have to do with the balance between love and wisdom in the use of the body in its natural functions.

The third area is the spiritual, and in this area the first two disciplines are connected through the attainment of contact with intelligent infinity.

Here we see the contact described as the spiritual connection between mind and body awareness.

Consider, if you will, the intelligent infinity present in the absorption of living-ness and being-ness as it becomes codified into intelligent energy, due to the thought impressions of those assisting the living stone into a new shape of being-ness. The release and use of intelligent infinity for a brief period begins to absorb all the consecutive or interlocking dimensions, thus offering brief glimpses of those projecting to the material their thought. These beings thus beginning to materialize but not remaining visible[spiritual?]. These beings were the thought-form or third-density visible manifestation of our social memory complex as we offered contact from our intelligent infinity to the intelligent infinity of the stone.

Here, again, we have the connection of material and thought. Looking closely, we see a possessive form of intelligent infinity, ours and theirs. This, IMO, is a clue that intelligent infinity is a concept to explain the coming together of mind and body in spirit, the three as one.

This spirit complex is the channel whereby the in-pourings from all of the various universal, planetary, and personal inpourings may be funneled into the roots of consciousness and whereby consciousness may be funneled to the gateway of intelligent infinity through the balanced intelligent energy of body and mind.

Again, IMO, a conceptual idea of the three 'coming together as one'.

44.12 Questioner: In meditation a number of years ago my arm started to glow and to move rapidly involuntarily. What was that?
Ra: I am Ra. The phenomenon was an analogy made available to you from your higher self. The analogy was that the being that you were was living in a way not understood by, shall we say, physicists, scientists, or doctors.

44.13 Questioner: What I am trying to get at in this session is if there are any practices that we might be able to do to best revitalize the instrument, for it is going to be necessary to do all we can in order to maintain our contact. Can you tell us what we can do to increase the instrument’s vitality for these contacts?
Ra: I am Ra. Your experience was a function of your ability to contact intelligent infinity.

Ah, this is my favorite. "In meditation" it was "an analogy" and this "experience was a function of your ability to contact intelligent infinity". In other words, his mind, body, and spirit were working together to explain something in a spiritual manner, physical applicability , and mental conceivability . As one.

I will stop here, but if you proceed down the page of what I linked, you will find more examples.

[Tenet Nosce]

One question about "walking the steps of light". Ra mentions "The spirit complex of each harvested entity moves along the line of light until the light grows too glaring, at which time the entity stops."

Does this mean we go till the light is no longer comfortable? Or do we take it to the point where it becomes agonizing and we can't take it any further? Or is there really not much difference between the two? Just a little over the edge of comfort becomes agonizing?

According to my understanding, there is still a certain resistance to the idea of giving one's individuality up which manifests as fear. This is totally natural, and nobody is expected to be embracing full unity consciousness and leaving this octave altogether. And besides, for the vast majority of people we are talking about a small acknowledgement of the light. Simply a glimmering flash will suffice. Those who will proceed on to 5D or 6D are a tiny minority, and really a special topic. So as you can see, there is a rather large swath of stopping points for entities to set up camp for the next round of experience.

But specifically with respect to comfort level, I would venture to say all of the above. Depending on an entity's natural propensity to go for "extra credit" so to speak. But all in all, passing the class is a tremendous achievement and there is no need to sully the experience with undue focus on those who graduated at the tippy-top. Neither is there value in lamenting those who didn't quite make it.

It all comes down to one's ability to recognize oneself in others, and to recognize others within oneself. But beyond that, I don't think the bar is being set very high.

---

A time of grieving for the sorrows of third density and a time of rejoicing for the liberation from ignorance (aka, the veil). That is the Harvest for me. A process of grieving and acceptance of the random injustices, and a process of feasting upon the fruits of labor from the field of co-existence, however troubled it was upon 3D earth.

Agreed. As I stated above, the grieving seems to be a major stumbling block for many. For me, it is the joy that is more of a stumbling block. But I will admit that I am unusual.

However, while yet in 3D, it is difficult to envision that state for me yet. The simplest of harsh catalyst throws me off balance, and at times brings out the most demonic of darkness from inside me.

As you say, while yet in 3D. We need to accept who we are and where we are up until the point at which that changes. What this means is that we are in a world of darkness, and the darkness lives inside each and every one of us. These are the rules of the game.

You already knew about the harsh catalyst you would encounter before you came here. You signed up for the experience knowing that it would be sorrowful ahead of time. You also knew that you would somehow come out just fine in the end.

At this point, there is nothing that the universe can throw at you in terms of catalyst that you haven't already dealt with to some degree. So I will call your bluff and say you are underestimating yourself. The only people who need really be concerned are those who are completely oblivious to anything outside of their media-manufactured concept of self.

On the one hand, we are talking about a tremendous event of epic proportions, but on the other hand it is supposed to be something that is a natural part of life in the universe. There really is no reason to fear the demons. The only reason things appear fearful is because you are so solidly entrenched in a system dominated by STS forces that it appears to you that the demons are in control of the situation.

Once you are solidly planted in 4D, and seeing things more clearly, you will find yourself to be on equal footing with the demons, and perhaps in many ways at an advantage.

[native]

I think ultimately the harvest is a metaphor of living in the present moment. Ra has said that third density is not necessary. They also say the choice is the axis upon which the creation turns.

The prelude to choice must encompass the laying of the foundation, the establishment of the illusion and the viability of that which can be made spiritually viable. The remainder of the densities is continuous refining of the choice. This also is greatly lengthened, as you would use the term.

And that answer was in response to Don saying that in reality, third density "is nothing but a uniquely short period of what we consider to be time and is for the purpose of this choice." "This is precisely correct", Ra says.

Third density is an illusion in terms of creating an experience where the choice is made. So when pressed for an answer, Ra can point to a time in the illusion that the harvest begins. But in reality, it is a useless observation if this is an illusion merely for walking through a gate to the present. There is both a 'time' when the harvest happens so to speak, as in Ra can definitely point to a 'time', but in this illusion during this incarnation as the harvest occurs, we continue to go about our business. The harvest is a timeless choice because there is always, and ever only, the present moment. If you don't make that choice, what do you do? Continue once again to play in another illusion. We've already been harvested. That is the greater understanding, and Ra possibly intends those conclusions to be made. What happened to 150 entities or Hitler's friends has nothing to do with now, and when pressed for an answer, Ra will give you an arbitrary number that is meaningless to what is an abstract timeless concept.

You have someone like Wilcock who is reaching masses of people, citing the Law of One and its prophecy of ascension coming right around the corner and they swallow it whole. Ra could have seen this mess that is created by debating when the harvest would happen, and if it involves immediate death. Are we to believe that Ra really would intend their words to be distorted (in fact I think they said their words nevertheless would be), and violate the free will of others in one of the most significant ways possible by telling people when they're going to die? Or is there enough subjectivity laced within the material overall that allows the seeker to make conclusions beyond what is simply stated? I'm more inclined to believe the latter, and in this way they preserve free will.

When I think about the point in which I changed my viewpoint on how the harvest may be soon which involves death, it was when I simply came to a greater understanding of what it means to live in the present. Before, there must have been some unconscious desire to have an answer simply to make sense of things. I realized I was living in the future. It had nothing to do with the fear of death..I obliterated my ego years ago. The moment you invoke thoughts on knowing your future you are no longer living in the present. I can no longer believe to know the preciseness of my fate, any more than I know what will happen tomorrow. So I am only able to focus on the present and the rest is just hearsay..unimportant.

17.2 ..Enlightenment is, of the moment, an opening to intelligent infinity. It can only be accomplished by the self, for the self. Another self cannot teach/learn enlightenment, but only teach/learn information, inspiration, or a sharing of love, of mystery, of the unknown that makes the other-self reach out and begin the seeking process that ends in a moment, but who can know when an entity will open the gate to the present?

Ra may be hinting at thoughts to consider in the above, and I think it is also why they say the harvest is now. The harvest isn't tomorrow because it never can be. Third density is an illusion of choice. There is only the present. I'm most inclined to say our lives play out in this illusion while the harvest occurs, as if through illusion, it is happening at that specific 'time', and when we enter time/space, we'll be harvested. Or maybe it will happen tomorrow while we are here incarnate? Above all, I do not know the answer. It's meaningless to consider really.

In reality, we've already made the choice, we've already been harvested in all densities, and we've already turned back towards the creator. Thinking you know when the harvest will occur is to have missed the point entirely. I see the Law of One as a having certain peculiarities which allow for further seeking to take place. There's no reason why Ra would give us definite answers to the deeper mysteries.

[AnthroHeart]

Tenet, awesome explaination of your view of harvest. I agree too that I feel that it's about time to "escape" this insanity. I guess I could say I've tried going for extra credit. Taking on a lot of intense internal catalyst to process my fears, emotions, and such, and accepting the dark side of myself for what it is. Been quite hard. Spirituality is definitely hard work.

Icaro, not sure if you knew, but 4D is also an illusion. I would guess that only Creator is real, and that all else is illusion.

29.20 Questioner: Then when our planet is fully into fourth density, will there be a greater gravity?
Ra: I am Ra. There will be a greater spiritual gravity thus causing a denser illusion.

[native]

Yes, I'm aware o_O

[AnthroHeart]

Icaro, were you expressing "omg?" or confusion with the o_O?

[native]

It was a friendly expression of the absurdity of it all.

[unity100]

and now, the entire specific process of harvest, explained in precise detail and mechanisms for pre-veil and post-veil periods, have been reduced to being a 'metaphor' for 'carpe diem'. and 'we' have been already harvested. with references to a future point in time in our continuum in 6d and up by the way. totally forgetting that 'there is past and present in 3d' as Ra put it.

gotta love grand interpretations making referrals to future points nearing infinity. i recommend anyone who employs such a mindset to stop drinking water, eating food, breathing, as of now. because, all is an illusion, and in a future point in time after 7d, you already have breathed, ate food, drank water in the past anyway.

[native]

Yep!

So are you willing to state that with as much certainty as your reasoning allows, you believe sometime in the near future, we will die and the harvest will occur?

[3DMonkey]

Not reduced, unity100. EXPOUNDED. 

By actually applying the teachings within the material while NOT pretending to be something I am not, I have arrived at this new understanding. Ra says they can not learn/teach for you, and neither can I. The only way is to place the self in the seat of learn/teach and be honest about who you actually are. The function of your ability to contact intelligent infinity will express itself. 

[native]

Very cool..glad to hear it.

[unity100]

Yep!
So are you willing to state that with as much certainty as your reasoning allows, you believe sometime in the near future, we will die and the harvest will occur?

i am actually saying that noone needs to do anything because 'it is just a metaphor'. see, you dont need to take a dump, because, since harvest is a metaphor that means living in the ever-present now of infinite intelligence, isnt taking a dump an illusion too ? after all, 'we are all one'. so, it doesnt matter whether you crap, or not, and our crap is also one with us ! therefore, there is no need to crap at all. since a gateway will soon be opening to infinite intelligence, which is at a past and FUTURE point in time, there is no need to eat, sleep, talk, breath or crap. because, we dont need to do these, in the future. because we dont need to do anything, in FUTURE, we dont need to do anything now !! everything is just a metaphor.

[native]

So I see you're not willing to make a conclusion. The answer is you don't know and you're unwilling to say it. Unless you want to use this opportunity to correct me. Tell me that the harvest will happen soon.

[Tenet Nosce]

Spirituality is definitely hard work.

Indeed. Which is why I think it more than a little absurd to imagine that those who did not do the work would get to reap the benefits of those who did.

Which leads to the next dilemma... we already have a massive gap in the population between those who are spiritually aware, and those who are not. Harvest only stands to widen that gap even further.

So it really doesn't make sense to me to have whatever portion of the population take a massive leap forward in their consciousness, and then throw them right back in with the rest of the population in order to "live out their normal lives". There is no more "normal" life for a harvested entity in 3D. It would be like accepting somebody into a college program, but restricting their choice to high school level review classes.

A newly harvested entity would do better in an environment where they have the freedom to play with and express their newfound abilities without concern of exacerbating inferiority complexes among the masses, or being tempted toward elitism, or infringing upon the free will of those who choose to remain oblivious to the larger life.

Nobody benefits from a situation where 4DJoeBob is showing off his new found telepathy powers to a group of people who have no such abilities, and are very far off from acquiring them. 4DJoeBob would do better in an environment where telepathy is "no big deal" and where nobody is trying to hide things and present false agendas.

Sometimes it appears that people get so concerned about those who are not harvested, even the trees and animals, yet there is little concern expressed for what will become of the newly harvested. They are like babies, just hatched from the womb. They need to be placed in a loving, supportive, nurturing, caring environment where they are free to play, run around, fall down, and make mistakes.

This is what I really don't get. This is the sticking point for me. Even if we allow that harvest "starts" one day, and then proceeds for 600 years or whatever, it seems to me to be quite a precarious situation for all parties to have such a wildly segregated population where harvested entities are running around performing "miracles" and other such impossible feats, while the rest of the population looks on. Such a scenario seems like it would be a really cruel joke to me.

I don't see how this could lead anywhere positive. I am open to hearing ideas about how the above scenario could all work out, but I have deeply sought for such a possibility and have come up empty.

[AnthroHeart]

By benefits, do you mean getting harvested and making it to 4D?

I think that there are those who might not consciously be working at spirituality, but still make it to 4D. I think though that our hard work will put us ahead in 4D, perhaps as teachers or the like there. I mean I've gained much insight into working with energy that wouldn't be here if I hadn't worked. I have a stillness about me that wouldn't be here if I hadn't accepted myself.

It's physically hard as well for me. Holding this light is tiring and involves a degree of pain as my body adapts to it, and keeps it in balance without me going crazy. Definitely have to stay grounded. Our work here is much more accelerated than in higher realms as you know. So all the pain and darkness I process here makes it that much better there.

But funny though it makes me lazy in other areas of life, like taking on extra work for money. I used to do what work I can for a bit extra here and there. But now all I want is free time to play and do the spiritual stuff.

For me, it's constantly holding a consciousness that keeps my energy focused and moving upward. I hold it so tight it's like living in a laser beam that burns away the impurities. Not always fun, but it's great when the sensations ease up and I feel that much lighter inside.

Now, I don't know what to say about those that are purposely not trying. I know some that love to watch horror films of people being tortured, and live with lots of anger. They don't want to get better some of them. Those I think could definitely use more 3D experience.

It's strange to think that, what if after all this hard work I just barely make it. Well, at least I would have made it, but still. Is the bar the same for everyone (x amount of Creator's light = 4D)? Or we each have our own 4D threshold?

Love and Light,

-GW

[unity100]

So I see you're not willing to make a conclusion. The answer is you don't know and you're unwilling to say it. Unless you want to use this opportunity to correct me. Tell me that the harvest will happen soon.

what conclusion. there is an explanation of mine quoted in the first post of this thread telling about a 'gradual' process.

and then there is me, in the last 1-2 pages, having had to switch my opinion from a 'gradual' process to a fast process which involves dying, due to the quotes i have dug up myself.

i have repeatedly told what i thought according to the quotes i dug up numerous times. maybe you have skipped to see the clear statements i was making due to your excessive interpretative tendencies or metaphor making ?

just go back 1-2 pages and read my posts. i told all that is there in sharp contrast. there is no need to 'make clear conclusion' for anything at this point since i already made them.

[3DMonkey]

And I agreed with unity100's original assessment in this thread. Perhaps I see the metaphor in the detail he laid out, and perhaps I'm mistaken that it was understood as such. Either way, the "words" used to explain remain the same.

*twilight zone music*

[native]

Fine enough Unity. I respect your answer. My main point is that we ultimately can't conclude with definitive certainty. This renders interpretations meaningless, because they only tell us what we want to see. I know you don't agree with that, because you feel the material is quite clear, so no need to correct me. You're correct, on the topic of harvest I believe Ra's whole message to be metaphorical.

[unity100]

Fine enough Unity. I respect your answer. My main point is that we ultimately can't conclude with definitive certainty. This renders interpretations meaningless, because they only tell us what we want to see. I know you don't agree with that, because you feel the material is quite clear, so no need to correct me. You're correct, on the topic of harvest I believe Ra's whole message to be metaphorical.

the problem here is, not any of these.

the problem is on-demand 'metaphorization' and obfuscation of clearly stated information, DESPITE it is not done for other information that is in the same status with this.

noone 'interpreted' and 'metaphorized' orion intervention to this planet. noone attempted to make Ra mean something else, when they said moses was called from a ufo that manifested as a fiery cloud. noone metaphorizes or rewrites maldek exploding. noone comes up and says, 'ra told maldek was destroyed, but it is in fact a metaphor'. noone comes up and says 'we cant ultimately conclude with definitive certainty that positive and negative exists, and Ra meant what they told when they told it'.

but, come things that are pending, important and non-optional, which would directly affect people's lives, suddenly there is a grand metaphorization, obfuscation, and Ra meaning apples when they explicitly answer oranges to a question asking whether it was apples or oranges.

[native]

Are you willing to admit that your need for clear, explicit, and undeniable proof as you interpret it, maybe, just MAY be why you see thematerial as clear, explicit, and undeniable? You clearly embody these traits, and you will not see through this bias. You feel you're unbiasedbecause the opposite of bias is infallible logic. You interpret the material as infallible logic.

I am not stupid and I know you don't think I am. And I've told you I'm not afraid of death. I have had death experiences. And I've told you I admittedly, in retrospect, must have had unconsious bias before and used to interpret the material as you interpret it.

I'm making a philosophically sound observation that the analytical mind fails when there is a need for intuitive perception. Ra states that themselves. The purpose of intuition is to inform intelligence. You seem to totally approach the material from the standpoint of logic only. That's not how our experience works. I don't think you're able to understand how others can interpret the material differently because that's your analytical bias working. Or maybe my bias is at fault here, and I'm wrong? I just wish you would acknowledge that you don't know the answer.

Again..I've held the same argument you present and clearly saw the logic as you saw it. But now I don't. I'm either delusional, or balancing things with intuitive perception. You would think Ra would subtly embody this concept for the entire working.

---

And I agreed with unity100's original assessment in this thread. Perhaps I see the metaphor in the detail he laid out, and perhaps I'm mistaken that it was understood as such. Either way, the "words" used to explain remain the same.

*twilight zone music*

Yes. Words are clearly our enemy.

[3DMonkey]

Yes. That is all a manifestation from Ra thru Carla's lips.

A spider bite was a fifth density negative entity. It doesn't get much more metaphorical than that. That Maldek was destroyed by it's inhabitants is not fact other than it is an interpretation of the contact that is usable within the constructs of understanding- a way to apply analogy to a real life issue. And so on and so forth.

(to others: don't be upset, I find the material no less applicable because of this)