Raw food and oral allergy syndrome

[@ndy]

Heya people

I'm looking to see if anyone has any advice to share on raw food for allergic people.

I suffer allergies to pets, weeds, trees, grass ect. I have with this oral allergy syndrome - were my mouth burns and itches on eating many fruits and some veg type stuffs ( It's due to residual pollen on the food I think)

I don't treat my allergies other than neti pot, lots of water, circular breathing for asthma attacks and for the most part I'm fine.

It's the time of year though when I’d like to eat raw foods and wondered if anyone into raw foods knows much about OAS, if there is any supplements that may help or ways around it.

The veg & fruit is all grown organically by us on our allotment or in the garden.
I keep trying to eat our fresh peas - but within mins of having a few my mouth is on fire and itching inside, same with our soft fruit. ( I can usually eat them once cooked)

I’m fine with turnips, carrots spinach and stuff that doesn’t flower - It's just love to be able to enjoy the other things too

[Monica]

Hi @ndy!

I'm not an expert on allergies, but I've attended a great many seminars on natural healing, and I've done a lot of research on my own, due to health challenges over the years. And, my husband used to suffer from allergies. He'd get intense headaches whenever the pollen count was high or something would blow in. So I can offer what I've learned, and maybe some of it might be useful for you.

My understanding, from a wholistic point of view, is that allergies are nature's way of facilitating a cleansing in the body. If you think about it, the idea that raw, natural foods would trigger some sort of negative response doesn't seem to make sense, does it? Foods that we know to be healthy should just make us feel better, not worse, right?

From a natural healing point of view, fresh fruits and veggies, as well as 'superfoods' such as greens, algaes, grasses, bee pollen, etc. are all cleansers as well as builders. They tend to loosen up old toxins and clear them out. Then, what happens is, the person might actually feel worse instead of better, as those old toxins are being released and eliminated. Thus, a runny nose is seen in a different light: The mucus is actually washing away toxins. Rather than seeing the mucus as bad, it is seen as a natural mechanism of the body to clean itself.

However, some foods are known to turn that healthy, watery mucus into glue! As well as adding more mucus, so the body becomes, basically, very 'sticky' with blood cells clumping together and excess mucus accumulating in the sinuses, so then when natural allergens like flower pollen are in the air, that excess mucus gets stirred up, and along with the body's natural response, the result is way too much mucus, resulting in headaches etc.

My observation is that when the 'sticky' foods like milk, cheese, and white flour are eliminated, then this extra mucus is eliminated, and the body is no longer susceptible to airborne 'allergens' or food allergens. You can find plenty to back up this theory with a little research. Try searching for 'dairy causing allergies' or something like that.

My husband was able to see a direct correlation between his consumption of ice cream, and allergies.

My suggestion is to try eliminating dairy products and white flour for a few months, and then see if you aren't able to eat the raw foods you previously couldn't tolerate. Superfoods might also help facilitate rapid detox. I've known many people who reported relief from allergies when they consumed superfoods like bluegreen algae and Swiss flower pollen. But I think the first step is eliminating what is likely the root cause of your predisposition to allergies, and my guess is that it's dairy products and flour, the common culprits.

Hope this helps!

[3DMonkey]

I wonder if you were an aphid colony complex in a previous incarnation and you chose this catalyst because of newfound compassion towards the plant life you came to love and catapulted you into third density...

[Richard]

Hi @ndy!

I'm not an expert on allergies, but I've attended a great many seminars on natural healing, and I've done a lot of research on my own, due to health challenges over the years. And, my husband used to suffer from allergies. He'd get intense headaches whenever the pollen count was high or something would blow in. So I can offer what I've learned, and maybe some of it might be useful for you.

My understanding, from a wholistic point of view, is that allergies are nature's way of facilitating a cleansing in the body. If you think about it, the idea that raw, natural foods would trigger some sort of negative response doesn't seem to make sense, does it? Foods that we know to be healthy should just make us feel better, not worse, right?

From a natural healing point of view, fresh fruits and veggies, as well as 'superfoods' such as greens, algaes, grasses, bee pollen, etc. are all cleansers as well as builders. They tend to loosen up old toxins and clear them out. Then, what happens is, the person might actually feel worse instead of better, as those old toxins are being released and eliminated. Thus, a runny nose is seen in a different light: The mucus is actually washing away toxins. Rather than seeing the mucus as bad, it is seen as a natural mechanism of the body to clean itself.

However, some foods are known to turn that healthy, watery mucus into glue! As well as adding more mucus, so the body becomes, basically, very 'sticky' with blood cells clumping together and excess mucus accumulating in the sinuses, so then when natural allergens like flower pollen are in the air, that excess mucus gets stirred up, and along with the body's natural response, the result is way too much mucus, resulting in headaches etc.

My observation is that when the 'sticky' foods like milk, cheese, and white flour are eliminated, then this extra mucus is eliminated, and the body is no longer susceptible to airborne 'allergens' or food allergens. You can find plenty to back up this theory with a little research. Try searching for 'dairy causing allergies' or something like that.

My husband was able to see a direct correlation between his consumption of ice cream, and allergies.

My suggestion is to try eliminating dairy products and white flour for a few months, and then see if you aren't able to eat the raw foods you previously couldn't tolerate. Superfoods might also help facilitate rapid detox. I've known many people who reported relief from allergies when they consumed superfoods like bluegreen algae and Swiss flower pollen. But I think the first step is eliminating what is likely the root cause of your predisposition to allergies, and my guess is that it's dairy products and flour, the common culprits.

Hope this helps!

This is a really good product along the lines of Superfoods. I buy raw materials from this company and everything they sell is absolute top quality.

But thier superfoods product is really nice. We blend our own greens product using their raw materials, but I actually buy Synergy's stuff.

http://www.thesynergycompany.com/ps_ingredients.html

http://www.thesynergycompany.com/pure_synergy.html

Richard

[Tenet Nosce]

Hi @ndy,

The fundamental problem with allergies is that the body is perceiving something as a threat, when it is not actually the case. While it might seem counterintuitive for the body to have such a negative reaction to raw foods, trying to force the issue typically won't work.

The first thing to do is eliminate any and all foods that are triggering the reaction. Keep in mind also that there are two types of allergic reactions. The first kind sets in almost immediately. The second can take up to three days to develop- so sometimes it is not that straightforward to discern the culprit.

In my experience, there are a few things that are usually going on. The first is that you may have a compromised gut barrier. Increased gut permeability leads to food particles being absorbed into the bloodstream before they are fully digested.

The body is designed to initiate an attack on anything over a particular size. So even if you are eating the best food on god's green earth, if your gut barrier is compromised and some of these particles are getting in, your body WILL react to it. Once you have been hypersensitized to a particular food, you MUST remove it from the diet and let your immune system cool down while you work to correct the dysfunction. It is possible to reintroduce those foods later and be OK, but you need to give your immune system a break from the trigger foods. This can take anywhere from 4 to 12 weeks.

You should also take a look into the levels of good bacteria in your gut, and evaluate for dysbiosis. Gut bacteria play a large role in the mediation of immune and hormone responses, and have been implicated in a wide array of conditions ranging from asthma to rheumatoid arthritis to depression and anxiety. The only way to really know would be to do a stool test such as is offered by Genova Diagnostics or Metametrix Labs. However, if you have a history of high-dose or repeated antibiotic use, and/or antacid use it is extremely likely that your gut bacteria are out of whack.

There is also emerging evidence that fruit sugar (fructose) is not that great for certain gut types. I see a fair amount of people who started experiencing strange symptoms after they made a change in their diet to include high levels of fruit, but never put it together because in their mind, how can fruit be bad? The research is showing that making positive dietary changes is a LOT more complicated than simply eating more fruits and vegetables. I, myself, enjoy fruits but if I eat more than a couple servings a day it will throw my digestion out of whack.

I am curious to know which foods specifically are causing these symptoms?

As for supplements, taking probiotics can help, but in my clinical experience it is much preferred to get a more detailed read on what is exactly going on. Different probiotic formulations will have different effects, and if there is overgrowth of bacteria or fungi in the gut, then they need to be cleared out first before the probiotics will take.

The next thing is to consider your digestive function. The body produces various enzymes that are needed to break down foods. Different enzymes come from different organs (stomach, liver, pancreas) and each have different functions whether it is to break down protein, fats, or carbs. It might be necessary to replace your digestive enzymes with a supplement, at least for a little while. Digestive enzyme insufficiency is often the underlying cause that can lead to both gut barrier dysfunction and dysbiosis.

Occasionally, some raw foodists will swear up and down that the foods themselves contain all the enzymes necessary to digest them, and tend to get all worked up in a tizzy when somebody says otherwise. The fact of the matter is they don't really know what they are talking about. They will make all sorts of technical-sounding arguments that somewhat overlook basic human physiology, and typically refer to an 80 year old study on leukocytosis. These claims are part true and part mumbo-jumbo.

In my experience, if you push a fundamentalist-type raw foodist on their logic you will find that underlying a seemingly scientific facade is lurking some sort of quasi-religious fervor and a mindset that refuses to acknowledge shades of gray. A true scientist would calmly explain the facts to you, and not become offended if you questioned said facts and/or produced counterevidence. Try to keep in mind that raving testimonials are nice, but have no bearing in a scientific discussion. Also the fact that one or two dudes happen to have built abs of steel on a raw food diet does NOT mean that it is right for everybody.

In my opinion, the most reliable sources of information on a raw food diet come from those who have BOTH had a personal experience with it AND who demonstrate a firm understanding of human physiology, as well as can back up their claims with some kind of scientific evidence.

Think about it... if all foods naturally contained the enzymes needed for the human body to digest them... then WHY would the body invest so much energy in producing enzymes of its own? ALSO, since all enzymes are proteins, if you are not getting enough protein in your diet your body will have no way to produce enzymes of its own. If you are getting enough protein, but your body is having a hard time breaking it down, you will similarly be in trouble. An active body requires 1.0 - 1.5 grams of protein per kilogram body weight daily. Don't overlook the DAILY. Since the body really doesn't have any way to store protein, you can't just load up on protein on Monday and expect it to still be working for you on Wednesday. You need to get the protein every day for proper function.

Good vegetable sources of protein include nuts, seeds, and legumes. Even still it is hard to meet one's needs with these foods alone. ESPECIALLY if one is overweight as increased body mass results in increased protein needs. Fruits have little to no protein. (So much for eating 100% STO ) Leafy veggies do have some protein, but keep in mind that if you are committed to getting all of your protein from greens as an elephant or a horse would, you will need to consume upwards of 30 - 40 cups a day.

OH another thing to look at is to make sure you are getting enough fat in your diet. Particularly omega-3 fats. The body's natural anti-inflammatory agents are produced from these. Best plant sources are walnuts and flaxseed. However, plant-based omega-3s require an extra conversion step and some bodies do this better than others due to genetic differences.

This is part of the reason why I don't believe vegetarianism is right for everybody. *ducks for cover*

Let's see what else? Oh zinc is another important factor for proper immune function. Pumpkin seeds are the best vegetable source. Mushrooms are pretty good. Or if you are so inclined, slurp down a few oysters on the half shell. I like mine with hot sauce... YUM!

Last, but not least, you may want to check your vitamin D levels. Make sure you are getting about 20 - 30 minutes of sunlight directly on your skin (NO SUNBLOCK) at least 3 times a week. If you live in an area where the sun goes hiding for any length of time, it is wise to have a vitamin D supplement on hand.

Nature for the most part does a pretty good job of taking care of us, but putting undue "faith" in it can be just as unwise as putting it in a cult leader. If you are following a particular dietary program and you still have these kinds of physical symptoms, that should be a sign that either your chosen dietary path is not actually the best for you, or that you have some more complicated health issues going on that probably require professional attention. A true "detox" symptom should pass within a few days, or a couple of weeks at most. If symptoms persist past this period, there is something else going on.

[BrownEye]

Eliminate gluten.

[Tenet Nosce]

Eliminate gluten.

Oh yeah! Forgot about that one... always a prudent choice. Whose bright idea was it to pump human beings full of grains, anyway?

[Oceania]

i should give up cheese and bread, my two foodweaknesses.

[BrownEye]

My nephew is allergic to everything, even grass. He also has asthma. He was dumped off with me for two weeks while his mother went on a trip. During this period his asthma and allergies somehow vanished during his stay. We had found at the end of two weeks that he was highly allergic to sesame, which we were not told. So while he had been eating organic sesame sauces that my wife makes, he never had a reaction. When his mother returned he mentioned how great he had felt the whole time, including losing weight (he was 140lb 9 year old).

The difference in his period with us is a full raw diet that eliminated gluten.

My mother has rheumatoid arthritis, and can't even open her hands. She stayed with us for a year. In that time she lost enough weight that she no longer needed anything for pain. She gained more movement in her kness, was able to lift her arms higher, and even open her hands. Since she has left she always mentions that she does not feel "clean" like she did in my household.

A person online approached me with his wasting away problem. He said the doctors keep telling him there is nothing wrong with him. But he continued to get weaker and lose weight no matter how much he ate. In about a half hour I taught him how to communicate with his body to find the source of his problems. He was highly mineral deficient as a result of Celiac disease. It would appear that it interfered with his ability to assimilate any nutrients at all.

He has since eliminated wheat and meat/dairy and is slowly recovering his weight, no longer has "itchy tongue" and has enough strength that he goes out fishing and does the family outings that he had been avoiding.

I still have not met anyone that has gone the oppposite direction to solve their health issues.

---

I also like that following part a lot, I percieve them similarly as you. Apparently fanatism is what makes quite a few people tick:

I don't understand your advice, someone asked for raw food advice and you only come in to hack on raw foodists?

[Richard]

i should give up cheese and bread, my two foodweaknesses.

Only if you think they are bothering you, O.

If giving up something you like improves the quality of your life, I'm all for it. But giving up something that is not causing any problems just because someone says its not good for you?

Richard

[BrownEye]

What works for everyone, is called an elimination diet. It is simply being sensitive enough to the bodies reactions to tell when not eating something has an effect.

This is how my wife got to the point of eliminating wheat gluten, and later finding that she and the children have gluten intolerances. The majority of americans have gluten intolerance and just aren't aware of it. Doctors will not figure it out because the symptoms include issues with foods that are good for you.


Bottom line here, the sustances most heavily promoted and subsidized by our govt are not good for you!

Wheat, corn, and dairy are in everything for a reason, other than the govt really cares about your health.

[3DMonkey]

That's outrageous. Gluten is a fad.

You just quoted in another thread that wanderershave allergies for a reason.

[Monica]

That's outrageous. Gluten is a fad.

Apparently, the very mainstream WebMD doesn't think it's a fad:

http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders...inst-grain

You just quoted in another thread that wanderershave allergies for a reason.

There can be both physical and spiritual reasons for any given condition. Or the physical might mirror the spiritual. One does not negate the other.

[3DMonkey]

That's outrageous. Gluten is a fad.

Apparently, the very mainstream WebMD doesn't think it's a fad:

http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders...inst-grain

You just quoted in another thread that wanderershave allergies for a reason.

There can be both physical and spiritual reasons for any given condition. Or the physical might mirror the spiritual. One does not negate the other.

I can't keep this straight. Are we for mainstream or against it?

I'm kidding, and I hope you get my meaning.

[Monica]

I can't keep this straight. Are we for mainstream or against it?

I'm kidding, and I hope you get my meaning.

Haha, yes I do!

My point is that even the mainstream takes gluten sensitivity seriously. Not just the alternative health community. So both alternative and mainstream acknowledge it.

The difference is that the mainstream doesn't acknowledge how widespread gluten insensitivity might actually be. So, as Pickle suggested, the only way to really know for sure is to just try eliminating gluten for awhile and see.

I recently quit eating wheat altogether, except for raw sprouted wheat, which I rarely have anyway. I definitely could tell a difference. I had resisted the idea for a very long time, but now I'm glad I gave it a try.

[3DMonkey]

I acknowledge it of course.

I've seen a kid swell up into a snot ball from gluten.

I also see a fad developed around the idea too. And then, sense it's in almost everything, it becomes a conspiracy.

Personally, I had horrible allergies as a child. Somehow I grew out of them. It might be a simple fact that I drank water when eating became entirely my choice.

[BrownEye]

edit

[Monica]

Kidding kidding, I asked a serious question to the one person on the thread that had no advice. Look where the thread went, I just kinda sat back and shook my head. There is already an ancient meat/raw bashing thread, why move the war to a thread with valid questions?

Moderator Note: The off-topic posts have been moved to that "ancient thread".

[Tenet Nosce]

That's outrageous. Gluten is a fad.

You just quoted in another thread that wanderershave allergies for a reason.

Mayo Clinic Study Finds Celiac Disease Four Times More Common than in 1950s: Undiagnosed celiac disease associated with nearly quadrupled mortality

[BrownEye]

That's outrageous. Gluten is a fad.

You just quoted in another thread that wanderers have allergies for a reason.

If you remember the concept of "forgetting" you will think of the possibility of choosing a body that has "something wrong" as having the preloaded setting of "seeking the cause" of discomfort which may just allow for the stumbling onto other understanding along with finding what is needed for continuing.

Yay for run on sentences.

[3DMonkey]

That's outrageous. Gluten is a fad.

You just quoted in another thread that wanderershave allergies for a reason.

Mayo Clinic Study Finds Celiac Disease Four Times More Common than in 1950s: Undiagnosed celiac disease associated with nearly quadrupled mortality

That is a disease. Not an allergy, as the fad is.

[Tenet Nosce]

That is a disease. Not an allergy, as the fad is.

Yes, there certainly is a fad built around it, just like anything else. But the disease component is, in fact, an allergic-type reaction to gluten.

What is celiac disease?

Celiac disease is a disease of the small intestine. The small intestine is a 22 foot long tube that begins at the stomach and ends at the large intestine (colon). The first 10 inches (25cm) of the small intestine (the part that is attached to the stomach) is called the duodenum, the middle part is called the jejunum, and the last part (the part that is attached to the colon) is called the ileum. Food empties from the stomach into the small intestine where it is digested and absorbed into the body. While food is being digested and absorbed, it is transported by the small intestine to the colon. What enters the colon is primarily undigested food. In celiac disease, there is an immunological (allergic) reaction within the inner lining of the small intestine to proteins (gluten) that are present in wheat, rye, barley and, to a lesser extent, in oats. The immunological reaction causes inflammation that destroys the lining of the small intestine. This reduces the absorption of the dietary nutrients and can lead to symptoms and signs of nutritional, vitamin, and mineral deficiencies.

[Kiko]

Eliminate gluten.

Oh yeah! Forgot about that one... always a prudent choice. Whose bright idea was it to pump human beings full of grains, anyway?

Well, as far as I can determine, they walked around thousands of years ago plucking and eating ears of wild wheat. Then came simple bread making, followed by more complex bread making. And now we have junk called food which is nothing more than a mix of chemicals and fluffers. So sad.

[3DMonkey]

Eliminate gluten.

Oh yeah! Forgot about that one... always a prudent choice. Whose bright idea was it to pump human beings full of grains, anyway?

Well, as far as I can determine, they walked around thousands of years ago plucking and eating ears of wild wheat. Then came simple bread making, followed by more complex bread making. And now we have junk called food which is nothing more than a mix of chemicals and fluffers. So sad.

And yet, we have the highest population ever... hmmmmm....

[Kiko]

An interesting topic, which the mention of bread gave me cause to read.

I cannot eat 'normal' bread here in the UK as it is part wheat, part soy flour, plus a list of chemicals. As one recent article says;

"If you’ve ever wondered why some loaves turn dry overnight while others stay squashy for ages and then suddenly go mouldy or why so many people complain of bloating (or worse) when they eat bread, don’t expect to find any answers in supermarket labelling. For the truth is that most British bread harbours a host of unnatural additives - and has done for decades. The most potent of these are often not listed on the label."

I buy soda bread and brown pitta bread in the main, and find I have no problem with those. Other rubbish which is manufactured purely for profit with no concern for the health of 'consumers' makes me feel ill immediately after eating it.

I find it very sad that people in this world are treated as badly as cattle, herded, used, and actually killed by those who want to bulk up their bank accounts. It seems that all we can do is look carefully at how we live our lives, knowing that we too will pass on not long from now, and be as healthy and happy as we choose to be in the meantime.

Afterthought...

My partner ten years ago was fascinated by ancient history and studied it at degree level. A book she bought (the title of which I do not remember) was written by academics about the living standards and health of people in the UK over 1,000 years ago. Graves exhumed contained bodies of tall, strong and healthy people, not the short sick types our history books told us of.

It seems that whilst still nomadic, people back then fed better, left land they had foraged on to grow back as they moved around, and had few sanitary problems for the same reason. Once people began settling into larger towns and cities, mainly to set up larger static areas of business to make more money, everything went rapidly downhill. Food started to be mass produced and was doctored to make more profit (even chalk in bread as a filler!) and sanitary conditions were disgusting, with excrement emptied into the narrow streets as they had no concept of hygiene. The elite who lived in castles and such had long drop 'privies' which kept their waste away from them, and of course the best hunted and harvested foods prepared by their cooks.

Illness and disease have ever since been the norm in 'civilised' societies, and the norm in 'less civilised' ones due to over population. As one author recently suggested, human kind is masterful at creating messes it cannot find a way out of, leading inevitably to the total collapse of civilisations. I have wondered if this is what Ra were hinting at when they said that many people will be 'inconvenienced'.

[@ndy]

Thank you for the reply’s and suggestions especially Tenet Nosce for sharing things I had not considered.

I'd already cut gluten out for a while as Pickle suggested it via a PM.

As a teenager I suffered with eating disorders and was 5 stone at my smallest - for these reasons alone I'm reluctant to restrict my diet to much I certainly don't want to go back to a place of being obsessive over what I eat So I'm happy to try gluten free for a time to see if that helps, aside from butter and cheese occasionally I don't really eat much dairy.


Foods that cause my mouth to itch are - fresh peas, and many fruits and most berries - tomatoes can too, also bananas and Kiwi fruit really hurts!
If these foods are cooked lightly I can eat them with no problem so it dose seems to be the pollen on the food.
I'm fine with cabbage, Kale, Spinach similar - in fact I really like green leafy stuff so I eat loads of it Root veg is fine too raw or cooked, cucumber and corgetts/squashes are good too.

[Oceania]

maybe it's the acid.

---

although fresh peas don't have it. how can pollen hurt you?

[lightning]

We are subject only to what we hold in the mind. That is why all these fads are meaningless. That includes vegetarianism. They are nothing more than belief systems.
PEACE

[zenmaster]

We are subject only to what we hold in the mind. That is why all these fads are meaningless. That includes vegetarianism. They are nothing more than belief systems.
PEACE

Nothing has inherent meaning, so what we hold in the mind is by definition meaningful. Further, a belief system is, by definition, meaningful. I would like to know what distinction you are trying to make.

[@ndy]

maybe it's the acid.

---

although fresh peas don't have it. how can pollen hurt you?

I don't think the pollen hurts me - I'm assuming it's the reaction my body has to the pollen that causes the pain.

It starts with itching of the soft pallet - if I continue to eat the food it would progress to inflammation and pain.

Coincidentally I received an email from a mother this weekend who I'd been helping with regard to her baby’s eczema, she wanted to share with me a treatment she had used successfully for her girls sensitivities.
http://www.naet.com/subscribers/faq.html It's an energy based treatment aimed at eliminating allergies by removing energy blocks(with the permission of the higher self), certainly sounds very interesting although my allergies are not bad I'm interested enough in the treatment to do some research into it
The treatment has been around for many years has anyone here herd of it or had any experience of it?