In regards to eating meat

[Monica]

Hmm, juice fast eh? I did a full fast a few weeks ago but I only lasted 2 days.. and I don't think I realised that diet is what makes you become spiritually lighter. I have the urge to be total veg but at the same time it can be difficult with a busy lifestyle.. keep on truckin'

I don't think diet automatically makes one spiritually lighter. It can assist, but isn't a 'ticket to heaven' so to speak. Hitler was (supposedly) a vegetarian! So obviously just being a vegetarian doesn't necessarily mean anything about one's spirituality. But, it can certainly be an important tool to aid in one's path. And, the reasons, the motivations for being vegetarian are very important. It's one of many pieces to the puzzle.

[Amara]

I must confess that I haven't read all 721 posts on this thread, however, I must say that my diet shifts tend to go hand-in-hand with my consciousness shifts and I'm never really clear on what causes what. I'm in quite a climb right now, feeling great bodily, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and I've never had my diet so dialed in. I've been gluten-free for a couple of years and and recently realized that I've reached the tipping point with the poison
found in potatoes. I've been addicted to potatoes most of my life, yet, letting them drop away has been surprisingly easy. The most difficult part
is making sure I check all the ingredients I'm sensitive to, or
have chosen not to eat when I don't eat whole foods (not often now) or eat in a
restaurant.

In thinking about it, it probably starts with intention. I never set out and say "I Now Declare Myself A Vegan." But, lo and behold, most animal products have naturally fallen away from my diet. I just don't want them. My diet day to day is chosen mostly vibrationally. I try to resist judging what I'm putting in my body because, well, I'm putting it in my body!

Offered in Love ...

[BrownEye]

I must say that my diet shifts tend to go hand-in-hand with my consciousness shifts and I'm never really clear on what causes what.

My diet day to day is chosen mostly vibrationally.

That says a lot right there.

[Amara]

Shortly after I realized something, that the junk food I ate had allowed something, like a hole in my shielding, making it easier for something to attach to me.

I agree ...

I once heard that Ghandi's wife was so worried about his weight and health, from her perspective, she begged and begged for him to at least partake of ghee (refined butter) as he was on absolutely no animal products whatsoever. He finally relented and days later was shot and killed. The person conveying the story, had a similar opinion to yours.

My personal thought is that once you're at a certain vibration, if you take in lower vibrational material into your body (visually, audibly, etc.) you may create a vulnerability that otherwise wasn't there. Not only are dead 'food' products falling away from my diet as I raise my vibration, I have a difficult time tollerating over-stimulation, witnessing violent acts in movies, loud music, I'm more careful about my language ... all just easy, natural progression.

Remembering that I don't need to do anything against my inner guidance just to 'fit' into the 3D world.

In Love

[unity100]

I do feel very sensitive emotionally and as I could quite easily become overwhelmed.
[/quote

and so it begins eh ...

Even with all my knowledge of nutrient content of foods, I cannot be sure I am meeting all my body's needs through juice alone. Actually, now that I am thinking about it, it is quite impossible.

i dont think you can either. the only reason to be on such a diet for a while may be the need to clean your body and your psyche of derelict stuff.

you should pass to another, heavier, but still much lighter (compared to meat and stuff) diet soon.

but all in all your cleaning process seems to be going rather good and fast.

[quote='Pickle' pid='47759' dateline='1311138017']
I just experienced something that was an eye opener today.

I was starving at work, did not bring enough lunch, and grabbed a small bag of chips from the vending machine. Within 10-15 minutes I received what is called a psychic or astral attack, a burning sharp pain on the back side of my neck. I recognized this feeling from previously pinpointed and validated attacks. It was fairly strong, and I was also able to pinpoint the source.

Shortly after I realized something, that the junk food I ate had allowed something, like a hole in my shielding, making it easier for something to attach to me.

As soon as I got home I looked into it, and got hold of the others to check on this. It seems a good diet has a huge effect against astral entities and other dark spirit forms. A good diet makes your system stronger in more ways than one. This was one of the reasons for fasting in the old days, to clear out poisons along with negative attachments.

The logic can be seen in this way. We know that certain stones ward off demons/spirits/astral critters, by absorbing negative energy, which in turn makes these sorts of entities weaker by taking it from them. So, if we had those same minerals in our body it has the same effect, even better I would say. There are many different stones that have the same effect on these negative things.

I gotta say, tonights experience has sort of solidified the dietary importance to me even more.

we are currently (as of this posting) just 1 day forward from the lowest point of the 4th mayan night. im thinking that its rather normal that psychic attacks increase. i think that the nights coincide with negative spectrum of the stage they are in. 4th should correspond to green, 4. hence 4 negative for a while (9 days). we have 8 more or so days to go before the day begins. however the effects should subside in the following days as night is progressing toward day.

[Nyu]

I know vegetarianism isn't a meal ticket to spirituality, that's not what I meant at all. But I've experienced my kundahlini flowing strongly and now its not again and I'm kind of experimenting with fasting and food to get it to come back. I'm not vegetarian yet, but I've noticed myself avoiding meat for the most part, and when I do eat it I thank the animal for giving its life and try to infuse the meat with love.

[Amara]

I know vegetarianism isn't a meal ticket to spirituality, that's not what I meant at all. But I've experienced my kundahlini flowing strongly and now its not again and I'm kind of experimenting with fasting and food to get it to come back.

This has been my experience, actually. My energy is flowing wide and full. I'm even able to handle it up in my head like never before. Usually it builds up in my throat, but not now, and I think it's at least in part, due to diet. I have a strong feeling that even if my diet didn't cause it, if I didn't have it so dialed in, my energy wouldn't be flowing like it is. I'm also stronger than I've felt in years -- mostly from staying away from allergens like gluten and nightshades and also animal 'products' (sounds weird to call something associated with a live being a product!).

Speaking of food allergies and sensitivities, have y'all noticed that a disproportionate number of people on a 'expanding consciousness' path are environmentally sensitive at the very least? Is there a thread on this? (I don't really know my way around the forum, yet and there's no search engine that I can find).

Also, since you mentioned Kundalini, that was going to be the first thing I searched for! Really looking to connect with people on that. Is there an existing thread that anyone knows about or should I create one? My first years with it were INSANE and it was very difficult to find grounded, reliable information or to find others dealing with it to talk to. Of course, the internet hardly existed then I would think there are others on this forum who are in a teach/learn situation with regards to the subject.

By the way, Nyu, if you don't know about it yet, the Master Cleanser (lemonade fast) is what I've always used over the years. The book on it is available in PDF online and it's very informative. It's an excellent fast and used by thousands of people with great success.

In Love ...

[Tenet Nosce]

Now here is another bizarre "coincidence"!

I don't really follow the Cassiopean channeled messages to any considerable degree. However, seeing as how I had just quoted them in another thread I thought to myself... I wonder what kinds of things those Cassiopeans are talking about these days. Turns out the last communication, from 11 June, is on vegetarianism!

What is more, many of the ideas expressed in that session are eerily similar to things I have previously written in this thread! Here is the link to the communication, if anybody is interested in reading it...

[Nyu]

Thank you Amara! I will have to look into this lemonade diet, I've never heard of it. I can feel my kundahlini rising when I do a full fast, but they are painful and I can never last more than 2 or 3 days, but I admit that I'm quite weak when it comes to willpower against "bad foods", sugar is seriously like crack for me. I have so much work to do to find discipline on a dietary level.

Tenet that link is interesting, thank you for sharing it! it kind of confirms what I gathered from the Ra material, that meat in itself isn't "wrong" spiritually, some feel better being veg and for others it makes them sick.

---

Ps looking at other transmissions on that site, apparently the tail of elenin will see the return of the black plague and having a "healthy" low fat diet is detrimental to the body for this? I don't know if these transmissions are true or not but its an eye opener if it is.

[BrownEye]

Ps looking at other transmissions on that site, apparently the tail of elenin will see the return of the black plague and having a "healthy" low fat diet is detrimental to the body for this? I don't know if these transmissions are true or not but its an eye opener if it is.

I would ask you what might be a more honest source of info, the lesser soul, the oversoul, or your brains personal logic?

[Tenet Nosce]

Tenet that link is interesting, thank you for sharing it! it kind of confirms what I gathered from the Ra material, that meat in itself isn't "wrong" spiritually, some feel better being veg and for others it makes them sick.

Yes. I used to struggle with the idea of what I was "supposed" to eat in order to become "more spiritual". What I finally concluded is that I do not need to become "more spiritual". I mean, is that even possible? Rather, what my true intention is for my body to become ever more responsive to the wishes of my spirit.

The body is as a child, and does not respond well to arbitrary rules. It wants what it wants, and trying to fight against it will only backfire. Better to see if there are healthier ways to attend to the craving.

Ps looking at other transmissions on that site, apparently the tail of elenin will see the return of the black plague and having a "healthy" low fat diet is detrimental to the body for this? I don't know if these transmissions are true or not but its an eye opener if it is.

Yea. The whole elenin / black plague thing was new to me. However, I have very strongly felt that the whole "low fat" thing was a red herring all along. It was originally invented in order to create a market for trans fats (Crisco, margarine, etc). First of all, fatty plants are some of the most nutritious available. Nuts, seeds, avocado, coconut, these are all great plants to eat. I have worked with some vegetarians/vegans who eat very little of these foods, and I believe that is a big mistake where their health is concerned.

Moreover, the body's immune system is regulated by molecules called prostaglandins, which are manufactured from essential fatty acids (omega-3s, and omega-6s). These fats are essential because they cannot be manufactured in the body. No essential fats, no immune function.

As for animal fat, I do not think the body requires it for healthy function as it can manufacture its own fat. However, I will say this, my body will crave it from time to time, and when I do eat it, I do not perceive any sort of negative influence in my body as a result of it.

[Monica]

Now here is another bizarre "coincidence"!

As the veil thins, such 'coincidences' are becoming more and more commonplace.

I don't really follow the Cassiopean channeled messages to any considerable degree. However, seeing as how I had just quoted them in another thread I thought to myself... I wonder what kinds of things those Cassiopeans are talking about these days. Turns out the last communication, from 11 June, is on vegetarianism!

What is more, many of the ideas expressed in that session are eerily similar to things I have previously written in this thread!

No surprise. We tend to attract resources that will confirm our conclusions. The stronger our bias, the more we will attract.

I personally don't resonate at all with the Cassiopean material. I've read some of it before, on other topics, and I found it to be very distorted by the channel's own biases, as well as too 'absolutist' in their opinions, for my taste. Quite the opposite of Ra. Just my opinion, but thank you for sharing.

---

Ps looking at other transmissions on that site, apparently the tail of elenin will see the return of the black plague and having a "healthy" low fat diet is detrimental to the body for this? I don't know if these transmissions are true or not but its an eye opener if it is.

Please direct any further discussion of the Cassiopean channeled messages to:

Olio > Non-L/L Research Channeled Sources

There is probably already a thread devoted to this source, and if not, you can start one in that sub-forum if you wish.

[BrownEye]

However, I have very strongly felt that the whole "low fat" thing was a red herring all along. It was originally invented in order to create a market for trans fats (Crisco, margarine, etc). First of all, fatty plants are some of the most nutritious available. Nuts, seeds, avocado, coconut, these are all great plants to eat. I have worked with some vegetarians/vegans who eat very little of these foods, and I believe that is a big mistake where their health is concerned.

Just think, our govt has been fattening up the population as a way to save the "useful" folks to rebuild the future.

[Diana]

I am very conflicted on the issue of eating meat I would very much like to begin a dialogue as to why one should not or should be able to consume meat.

I would like to respond to your inquiries about eating meat, and your observation that plants have life which should be respected too.

I agree that all life should be respected. Then, the problem remains, as we exist in 3-D and must consume food until we evolve to something higher, what do we eat?

An animal has a strong instinct for survival, even when hunted in a natural environment. It experiences terror when chased by predators. This fear is only a fraction of what farm animals feel when taken to slaughter because they are trapped and cannot even run. Just considering the physical results of this fear and terror--release of hormones, adrenaline, fight-or-fight response--it is unwise to consume the meat as you will be ingesting these hormones too, which the animal's body has manufactured. Also, you cannot cut a leg off an animal without killing it.

You can, however, prune a plant and cut off leaves without killing it. You can harvest vegetables without killing the plant. Many plants "want" animals to eat them as it is their way of spreading seed and propagating. Fruit falls off trees, vines, and bushes to be eaten by animals so that the seeds can be spread. It seems obvious that it is less cruel to consume the life force from plants, rather than animals.

I agree with one of the posts here, that the Native American way of thanking the animal ceremonially is best if one has to consume meat. But does anyone HAVE to eat meat? Why not touch the world more lightly, more gently, and be healthier in the process?

You might think of the issue this way:

Imagine the most Utopian future world you can. What would it be like? Perhaps at that point consuming anything but air and sunlight would be all we need? Draw a straight line from where we are now to that future world. Now start taking steps along that line.

[3DMonkey]

Utopia without bacon? Not possible.

[Monica]

Utopia without bacon? Not possible.

Don't pigs deserve utopia too?

---

I would like to respond to your inquiries about eating meat, and your observation that plants have life which should be respected too.

I agree that all life should be respected. Then, the problem remains, as we exist in 3-D and must consume food until we evolve to something higher, what do we eat?

An animal has a strong instinct for survival, even when hunted in a natural environment. It experiences terror when chased by predators. This fear is only a fraction of what farm animals feel when taken to slaughter because they are trapped and cannot even run. Just considering the physical results of this fear and terror--release of hormones, adrenaline, fight-or-fight response--it is unwise to consume the meat as you will be ingesting these hormones too, which the animal's body has manufactured. Also, you cannot cut a leg off an animal without killing it.

You can, however, prune a plant and cut off leaves without killing it. You can harvest vegetables without killing the plant. Many plants "want" animals to eat them as it is their way of spreading seed and propagating. Fruit falls off trees, vines, and bushes to be eaten by animals so that the seeds can be spread. It seems obvious that it is less cruel to consume the life force from plants, rather than animals.

I agree with one of the posts here, that the Native American way of thanking the animal ceremonially is best if one has to consume meat. But does anyone HAVE to eat meat? Why not touch the world more lightly, more gently, and be healthier in the process?

You might think of the issue this way:

Imagine the most Utopian future world you can. What would it be like? Perhaps at that point consuming anything but air and sunlight would be all we need? Draw a straight line from where we are now to that future world. Now start taking steps along that line.

Welcome to Bring4th, Diana! Very well said! I look forward to reading more of your posts!

[Conifer16]

I am very conflicted on the issue of eating meat I would very much like to begin a dialogue as to why one should not or should be able to consume meat.

I would like to respond to your inquiries about eating meat, and your observation that plants have life which should be respected too.

I agree that all life should be respected. Then, the problem remains, as we exist in 3-D and must consume food until we evolve to something higher, what do we eat?

An animal has a strong instinct for survival, even when hunted in a natural environment. It experiences terror when chased by predators. This fear is only a fraction of what farm animals feel when taken to slaughter because they are trapped and cannot even run. Just considering the physical results of this fear and terror--release of hormones, adrenaline, fight-or-fight response--it is unwise to consume the meat as you will be ingesting these hormones too, which the animal's body has manufactured. Also, you cannot cut a leg off an animal without killing it.

You can, however, prune a plant and cut off leaves without killing it. You can harvest vegetables without killing the plant. Many plants "want" animals to eat them as it is their way of spreading seed and propagating. Fruit falls off trees, vines, and bushes to be eaten by animals so that the seeds can be spread. It seems obvious that it is less cruel to consume the life force from plants, rather than animals.

I agree with one of the posts here, that the Native American way of thanking the animal ceremonially is best if one has to consume meat. But does anyone HAVE to eat meat? Why not touch the world more lightly, more gently, and be healthier in the process?

You might think of the issue this way:

Imagine the most Utopian future world you can. What would it be like? Perhaps at that point consuming anything but air and sunlight would be all we need? Draw a straight line from where we are now to that future world. Now start taking steps along that line.

Wow! That is a most incredible argument for not eating meat. I should probably send people Here to show them that when this subject comes up. Wow!

Also when I was eating mostly plant material and very little to no meat I felt healthier and more energized and every since my mom stoped buying salad suplies due her her busy schedule and I have had to eat meat I have had more headaches and felt generally worse for wear. So I would say it is more beneficial(in my opinion of coarse) to eat plants then meat.

Thanks,
Conofer16
Adonai Vasu Borragus

And again Wow!

[Monica]

Wow! That is a most incredible argument for not eating meat.

Yeah, Diana just accomplished in a single post, what we've all been going round and round about for many months!

[Tenet Nosce]

Alrighty, then. Despite the other valid points raised in this thread, I do not see one iota of evidence from the Ra material to support a vegetarian lifestyle. In fact, I see quite the opposite:

Quote:102.16 Questioner: Could Ra please state which foods are highly probable to not cause the spasming?

Ra: I am Ra. The liquids not containing carbonation, the well-cooked vegetable which is most light and soft, the well-cooked grains, the non-fatted meat such as the fish. You may note that some recommended foodstuffs overlap allergies and sensitivities due to the juvenile rheumatoid arthritic distortions. Further, although sugar such as is in your sweetened desserts represents a potential, we may suggest that it be included at this period for aforementioned reasons.

Quote:40.14 Questioner: In dietary matters, what would be the foods that one would include and what would be the foods that one would exclude in a general way for the greatest care of one’s bodily complex?

Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, we underline and emphasize that this information is not to be understood literally but as a link or psychological nudge for the body and the mind and spirit. Thus it is the care and respect for the self that is the true thing of importance. In this light we may iterate the basic information given for this instrument’s diet. The vegetables, the fruits, the grains, and to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism, the animal products. These are those substances showing respect for the self. In addition, though this has not been mentioned for this instrument is not in need of purification, those entities in need of purging the self of a poison thought-form or emotion complex do well to take care in following a program of careful fasting until the destructive thought-form has been purged analogously with the by-products of ridding the physical vehicle of excess material. Again you see the value not to the body complex but used as a link for the mind and spirit. Thus self reveals self to self.

Quote:18.4 Questioner: Are there any foods that are helpful or harmful that the instrument might eat?

Ra: I am Ra. This instrument has body complex distortion towards ill health in the distortion direction corrected best by ingestion of the foodstuffs of your grains and your vegetables, as you call them. However, this is extremely unimportant when regarded as an aid with equality to other aids such as attitude which this instrument has in abundance. It, however, aids the vital energies of this instrument, with less distortion towards ill health, to ingest foodstuffs in the above manner with the occasional ingestion of what you call your meats, due to the instrument’s need to lessen the distortion towards low vital energy.

Quote:83.27 Questioner: I noticed you started this session with “I communicate now” and you usually use “We communicate now.” Is there any significance or difference with respect to that, and then is there anything that we can do to make the instrument more comfortable or to improve the contact?

Ra: I am Ra. We am Ra. You may see the grammatical difficulties of your linguistic structure in dealing with a social memory complex. There is no distinction between the first person singular and plural in your language when pertaining to Ra.

We offer the following, not to infringe upon your free will, but because this instrument has specifically requested information as to its maintenance and the support group does so at this querying. We may suggest that the instrument has two areas of potential distortion, both of which may be aided in the bodily sense by the ingestion of those things which seem to the instrument to be desirable. We do not suggest any hard and fast rulings of diet although we may suggest the virtue of the liquids. The instrument has an increasing ability to sense that which will aid its bodily complex. It is being aided by affirmations and also by the light which is the food of the density of resting.

So, what is it then? Is Ra "right" or "wrong"? Perhaps Ra is misguided? Trying to trick us? Or are there maybe, just maybe, people whose health would benefit from the consumption of animal products... most notably the very person who channeled Ra and still suffers in this very moment from near debilitating health conditions?

[Monica]

Alrighty, then. Despite the other valid points raised in this thread, I do not see one iota of evidence from the Ra material to support a vegetarian lifestyle.

Sure there is. Ra makes it very clear that higher 2D beings are close to being human. Ra makes it very clear that bellicosity has held this planet back. Ra makes it very clear that violence towards other entities, and controlling other entities, are inappropriate for one pursuing the STO path. Thus, simple deduction can lead to the conclusion that violence towards entities that are close to being human, and who feel pain and fear, probably isn't in alignment with the STO path.

Ra doesn't need to explicitly say, "Don't rape" for us to know that rape is depolarizing for one on the STO path. It's controlling another entity. It's violent. It's a no-brainer.

Thus, Ra's lack of explicit mention that rape = depolarizing can't reasonably be used to justify rape. It would be ludicrous to say, "Rape is ok because Ra didn't say it wasn't ok."

The Law of One isn't a religious text or doctrine. It contains only those topics which were directly initiated by Don.

In fact, I see quite the opposite:

I don't. I don't see the opposite (supporting the eating of animals) at all, and I think to claim Ra supports the eating of animals is quite a stretch.

Quote:102.16 Questioner: Could Ra please state which foods are highly probable to not cause the spasming?

Ra: I am Ra. The liquids not containing carbonation, the well-cooked vegetable which is most light and soft, the well-cooked grains, the non-fatted meat such as the fish. You may note that some recommended foodstuffs overlap allergies and sensitivities due to the juvenile rheumatoid arthritic distortions. Further, although sugar such as is in your sweetened desserts represents a potential, we may suggest that it be included at this period for aforementioned reasons.

This quote has to do with spasming, and specifically, the 'foods' in a specific person's (Carla's) diet that cause spasming. Irrelevant.

Quote:40.14 Questioner: In dietary matters, what would be the foods that one would include and what would be the foods that one would exclude in a general way for the greatest care of one’s bodily complex?

Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, we underline and emphasize that this information is not to be understood literally but as a link or psychological nudge for the body and the mind and spirit. Thus it is the care and respect for the self that is the true thing of importance. In this light we may iterate the basic information given for this instrument’s diet. The vegetables, the fruits, the grains, and to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism, the animal products. These are those substances showing respect for the self. In addition, though this has not been mentioned for this instrument is not in need of purification, those entities in need of purging the self of a poison thought-form or emotion complex do well to take care in following a program of careful fasting until the destructive thought-form has been purged analogously with the by-products of ridding the physical vehicle of excess material. Again you see the value not to the body complex but used as a link for the mind and spirit. Thus self reveals self to self.

I've already provided my analysis of this particular quote, previously on this thread. I hope you understand that I've already referenced the earlier post at least twice, maybe more, and I simply don't have time to dig it out yet again. I'm wondering why you are asking about it again, when I've already addressed it?

In short, animal products could mean eggs or milk. It doesn't necessarily mean meat. So the quote is completely inconclusive and doesn't support your argument about eating meat, at all.

That's the only quote about meat that wasn't specifically about Carla, and it's...inconclusive.

If you did read my response to this particular quote but simply disagree, then that's fine. But you seemed to be directing your query to me. Please pardon me if I've misunderstood.

Quote:18.4 Questioner: Are there any foods that are helpful or harmful that the instrument might eat?

Ra: I am Ra. This instrument has body complex distortion towards ill health in the distortion direction corrected best by ingestion of the foodstuffs of your grains and your vegetables, as you call them. However, this is extremely unimportant when regarded as an aid with equality to other aids such as attitude which this instrument has in abundance. It, however, aids the vital energies of this instrument, with less distortion towards ill health, to ingest foodstuffs in the above manner with the occasional ingestion of what you call your meats, due to the instrument’s need to lessen the distortion towards low vital energy.

This quote too is irrelevant, because it is addressing Carla specifically. And, as I've said before, Ra accepts us where we're at with full respect to our free will. I see nothing in this quote supporting violent actions towards our 2D brethren; nor do I see anything contradictory in Ra's response to a question about Carla's specific dietary choices.

Carla is a Christian too, and Ra takes that into consideration when suggesting that the Bible and other magickal 'props' be used. Does this mean that Ra favors Christianity for everyone? Certainly not! It would be absurd to deduce that.

Ra's treatment of Carla's dietary choice is exactly the same as her religious choice.

So, what is it then? Is Ra "right" or "wrong"? Perhaps Ra is misguided? Trying to trick us? Or are there maybe, just maybe, people whose health would benefit from the consumption of animal products... most notably the very person who channeled Ra and still suffers in this very moment from near debilitating health conditions?

Tenet, once again I find myself wondering whether you have read this entire thread. You have never stated whether you did or not. I went out of my way, several times, to include a disclaimer regarding those with unusual medical conditions, who feel, 'rightly or wrongly', that they must eat animals, in respect to Carla.

This isn't about Carla. There is no need to judge Carla's health condition or her choices in dealing with her health condition. But Carla's personal choices have nothing to do with a philosophical discussion about whether the killing of animals is in alignment with the STO path. Carla would be the first to state that she doesn't want to be put on a pedestal as a role model for the rest of us. Carla has offered an incredible service, in allowing this valuable information to come thru her, but she isn't a guru; nor does she want to be one. Those questions Don asked Ra, were an effort to help Carla with her own struggles pertaining to her physical vehicle. They're simply not relevant to the greater question, any more than Ra's suggestions that they use a Bible would be relevant to the greater questions of spirituality.

"Aha! Ra recommended that Carla use a Bible, a chalice and a cross! This must mean we're all supposed to be Christians!"

Do you see the parallel here?

I've stated this so many times, I'm beginning to get hoarse! And time and time again, people still keep bringing up their own diet, or Carla's diet, or whatever. I really don't care what you, or Carla, or anyone else eats. It's not my place to judge, and I'm simply not interested in anyone's rationalizations. I'm interested in the philosophical, ethical, and spiritual implications of killing animals.

[Tenet Nosce]

I've stated this so many times, I'm beginning to get hoarse! And time and time again, people still keep bringing up their own diet, or Carla's diet, or whatever. I really don't care what you, or Carla, or anyone else eats. It's not my place to judge, and I'm simply not interested in anyone's rationalizations. I'm interested in the philosophical, ethical, and spiritual implications of killing animals.

I do apologize for contributing to your hoarseness, though 740 posts is a little much for my mind to hold in its awareness all at once.

Well I think you and I may both agree that the argument is tiresome, and that we appear to be at a stalemate. Which is fine with me. As you know, the only reason those quotes reappeared here was due to our interaction in another thread. So I will briefly summarize my viewpoints.

Philosophically speaking, eating anything is an STS act. We must take the life of another physical being in order to sustain our own physical body. There is no way around this, given the rules of the 3D physical experience. The most we can do is try to draw a line somewhere in the natural food chain, according to our own inner wisdom, experience, and preferences, and let the chips fall where they may.

Ethically speaking, the abhorrent and abusive conditions to which humans subject animals raised for food is a reflection of the abhorrent and abusive conditions to which we subject ourselves. In a world rampant with such atrocious acts as ritual abuse, infant sex trafficking, genocide, hate crimes, terrorism, and financial enslavement, it is somewhat curious to me that one would choose to take up animal rights as their raison d'être. But it is simply a curiosity, and nothing more. To each their own.

Spiritually speaking, I do not at all believe the choice of foodstuffs has any significant impact on spiritual growth. Rather, I believe this idea to be a red herring, and a control mechanism designed to keep people distracted from attending to the myriad of dysfunctional thought patterns, inner demons, and self-destructive behaviors which are the true hindrance to spiritual growth. While this may be debatable, and I may in fact be wrong, I can certainly point to several examples of vegetarians to whom application of the word bellicose would be an understatement. Vile is the word which comes to mind. And I can just as easily point to many meat-eaters who don't have a bellicose bone in their bodies. For what it is worth, I have observed a general trend toward desiring less meat as I have grown in spiritual awareness. But that is the result of spiritual growth, not the cause of it.

OK. Peace, love, light, and all that jazz.

[Monica]

I do apologize for contributing to your hoarseness, though 740 posts is a little much for my mind to hold in its awareness all at once.

Apology accepted! Actually, the thread is quite interesting and deep, with various viewpoints represented, so you might actually enjoy the read, if you feel so inclined sometime.

Well I think you and I may both agree that the argument is tiresome,

I don't find continued discussion tiresome if it raises new points, but I do find redundancy tiresome. It's difficult to avoid, though, when members come and go, and the thread grows ever longer.

So I will briefly summarize my viewpoints, then kindly remove myself from this thread.

As you wish! Thank you for the discussion! Please know that any further responses I may offer aren't necessarily directed at you, then, but for anyone who might wish to continue the discussion.

Philosophically speaking, eating anything is an STS act.

Let's look at the context of the term STS.

When speaking of polarity, STS refers to the negative path. But taken literally, service to self isn't negative. It's only negative if it's at the exclusion of others. We must serve ourselves to some degree, because we are part of the whole. In fact, Ra stated that love of self is actually required for STO harvest!

Thus, I don't think it's STS, in the context of negatively polarizing, when we do the normal things that we must do to take care of our physical vehicles. It's not STS to brush one's teeth, but it is serving self. Do you see the distinction?

An action becomes STS in the sense of negatively polarizing, when we have the awareness that we are harming another, or controlling or imposing on another, and we make that choice anyway.

It's not STS polarizing if someone accidentally hits a pedestrian and kills them. But it is obviously STS polarizing to intentionally kill them.

It's not STS polarizing for the vast majority of people who eat hamburgers. They've been brought up eating hamburgers and have never really questioned it. It's just a burger. They aren't thinking about the cow's suffering when they wolf down that burger.

The question then becomes: Is it depolarizing for an entity pursuing the STO path, who has become aware of the suffering of their 2D brethren, and yet they continue to contribute to that suffering?

We must take the life of another physical being in order to sustain our own physical body.

The question was raised on this thread as to whether plants are beings. How is being or entity defined? Is a sip of water a being? Is a sunflake an entity? Are we consuming entities when breathe air? (Not counting microorganisms...but the air itself?) Are we taking their lives? Or are we merging their lifeforce with our own? How is this determined? What is life? What is lifeforce?

There is no way around this, given the rules of the 3D physical experience. The most we can do is try to draw a line somewhere in the natural food chain, according to our own inner wisdom, experience, and preferences, and let the chips fall where they may.

Very true. But we already do that with other humans, do we not? Back in the caveman days, did humans understand that it was wrong to kill another human? No. Many humans still haven't figured that out. But for the most part, most average people understand that killing another human isn't cool. And we know, from a Law of One perspective, that it's depolarizing for an STO person to do that.

So we've already drawn the line in the sand. Why not draw another line as we evolve? It seems logical, knowing what we know. We can't 'unknow' what we know.

Ethically speaking, the abhorrent and abusive conditions to which humans subject animals raised for food is a reflection of the abhorrent and abusive conditions to which we subject ourselves. In a world rampant with such atrocious acts as ritual abuse, infant sex trafficking, genocide, hate crimes, terrorism, and financial enslavement, it is somewhat curious to me that one would choose to take up animal rights as their raison d'être. But it is simply a curiosity, and nothing more. To each their own.

You just listed a handful of worthy causes. There are thousands more. We can't all work on every cause. So people tend to select a few causes that are close to their hearts, for whatever reason. Maybe they lost a loved one to cancer so they become active in cancer awareness. Their dad died of a heart attack so they are active in that. Whatever. It takes all of us to clean up the mess this planet's in. I'm glad there are people out there willing to get on Greenpeace ships and challenge the whaling ships, because I lack the courage to take on that particular cause. It doesn't mean the Greenpeace activist doesn't care about sex trafficking or child abuse! It just means that they've chosen to work on a cause that they feel they make a difference in. There is room for all. It's all good.

I've already expressed my reasons for championing the animals whenever I have an opportunity. And I'm not even one of the 'radical' ones. I don't go around rescuing cows or anything like that. (Although I do have a disproportionately large menagerie of stray dogs and cats!)

For me, the reasons are myriad, already outlined in previous posts. But other than ending wars, I can think of no other cause that has such far-reaching benefits, to so many beings, including not just the animals, but humans, and the planet itself.

Add to that, if we don't go poof next year, we're gonna have one helluva mess to clean up, and if humans don't switch to a predominately vegetarian diet, this planet cannot sustain the human population much longer. That's not theory; it's fact.

I'd say that's a very good reason to be involved in this cause. It affects us all, not just the animals.

Spiritually speaking, I do not at all believe the choice of foodstuffs has any significant impact on spiritual growth.

If I have a choice between shopping at a store that I know oppresses people by utilizing sweatshops, and a store that treats their workers well, does my choice have any significant impact on my spiritual growth?

Rather, I believe this idea to be a red herring, and a control mechanism designed to keep people distracted from attending to the myriad of dysfunctional thought patterns, inner demons, and self-destructive behaviors which are the true hindrance to spiritual growth.

Eating a greasy cheeseburger is surely a self-destructive habit. And though patterns are affected by what we eat and drink. It's already been established that when one eats a piece of dead cow, they are consuming the fear hormones the cow had at time of death. (Not to mention all the antibiotics, growth hormones, concentrated pesticides, and myriad other chemicals.) How could this not contribute to those "dysfunctional thought patterns" and "inner demons"?

While this may be debatable, and I may in fact be wrong, I can certainly point to several examples of vegetarians to whom application of the word bellicose would be an understatement. Vile is the word which comes to mind. And I can just as easily point to many meat-eaters who don't have a bellicose bone in their bodies.

That too is well established. Hitler was supposedly a vegetarian, and someone as spiritual as Carla eats meat. And we all know of our friend's Uncle Charlie who smoked 2 packs of cigs a day and had tequila every night, and was never sick a day in his life, and lived to be 95.

That doesn't change the fact that animal slaughter is violent.

For what it is worth, I have observed a general trend toward desiring less meat as I have grown in spiritual awareness. But that is the result of spiritual growth, not the cause of it.

This I agree with, generally. Feeling compassion for the animals, and raising one's awareness about the plight of the planet, is part of that spiritual awareness. Being a vegetarian is obviously not a ticket to 4D. If it were that simple, gosh, this planet could have been harvested eons ago! But, it can work both ways. One's choice of foodstuffs can affect one's spiritual growth, just as all other catalyst affects one's spiritual growth. It's a vibrational thing. Many people who have quit eating animals for strictly health reasons (STS!) with no regard for the animals, can attest to this. My husband is a prime example. He became a vegetarian for primarily health reasons, but then his vibration seemed to lighten and it became a spiritual thing. I've seen it work both ways.

OK. Peace, love, light, and all that jazz.

[BrownEye]

I will butt into the newly kindled argument with a couple quotes from guys attempting to find out why psychics die faster.

Have any of you read Shift of the Ages??? Not a book about Cayce in specific, but he mentions people in the book who had the same gift as Cayce as well as Cayce himself and why most of them die usually before they make it to an old age.

He says that when people like this come into direct contact with higher beings such as Roberts of the Seth Speaks books and many others, they tap into that beings frequency which is higher than ours. Our bodys can't operate at that frequency unless we are on a specific diet. A diet of only pure high energy foods which equates to vegetarianism. If they don't adhere to this diet then their bodies become run down and can no longer function and the physical body dies.

Seems to me Carla did not really change her diet or anything, I remember a comment somewhere about "love for food" which to me equates to addiction to taste.

If Ra was to recommend a mineral that was rarely found on the other side of theplanet, but easily found in rabbit droppings in this country, Ra would have said to prepare rabbit droppings. Does that mean that it is best to eat rabbit droppings? Or the easiest fix for this particular person in this particular mindSET?

Diet is just one of those things that involves Choice, no different than making the choice to kill another being, even a human being. It is simply a line that you choose to stay on one side of, quite a bit like Discipline.

[3DMonkey]

Eating and sleeping.... Burdens.


So, what essential mineral are we extracting from rabbit droppings? Should I get a few as pets? I really want to ingest the most likely things to bring on ascension.

[Amara]

So, what is it then? Is Ra "right" or "wrong"? Perhaps Ra is misguided? Trying to trick us? Or are there maybe, just maybe, people whose health would benefit from the consumption of animal products... most notably the very person who channeled Ra and still suffers in this very moment from near debilitating health conditions?

Okay, what I heard in all of that was ... Carla should use meat medicinally .... meaning ... a couple of ounces of organic meat occasionally as needed. And, most of all, to listen to her body as to what it needs, which would extend to all of us. Sounds pretty balanced to me. One can be veg for the most part while still using meat medicinally, don't you think?

[BrownEye]

Heh, the only medicinal value I have seen is the grounding effect. Or dropping of your frequency. We mainly eat for taste, all nutrients that are gained came from plants and feces. We eat the animal to get what it ate. Its just a bit harder to absorb from an animal than from the source.

It still makes me think of the ritual sacrifice of the ancient times. Idol worship. Flesh was given as gifts to demon spirits to gain favors. I see ourselves as attempting to live aligned with that. It also makes sense as to the "grounding effect" if you overlay the layers of the planet with the layers of the lower realms. Even the fiery bowels lol.

[3DMonkey]

Ever imagine the priests of old as a group of greedy guys that enjoyed hanging at a barbecue pit?

[Raman]

What about fish? Do you equate this with meat? And what do you guys think about fish oil supplements and such?

[unity100]

Philosophically speaking, eating anything is an STS act. We must take the life of another physical being in order to sustain our own physical body. There is no way around this, given the rules of the 3D physical experience. The most we can do is try to draw a line somewhere in the natural food chain, according to our own inner wisdom, experience, and preferences, and let the chips fall where they may.

arguable.

eating the fruit of a plant while planting the seed and tending it, is a positive act as far as it can be. at least, it is nonnegative.

in another respect, handling 1d material and transforming/transmutating it is something 1d entities need for progress.

the questions here would be to transform the willing 1d material to whatever they want to be transformed into.

What about fish? Do you equate this with meat? And what do you guys think about fish oil supplements and such?

it is still a destructive move that destroys a self propelling 2d entity for self profit.

[Diana]

Most interesting thread, and not unexpectedly long, as this is a very emotionally charged issue. Why?

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What about fish? Do you equate this with meat? And what do you guys think about fish oil supplements and such?

A fish is an animal. There are 3 classifications: animal, plant, mineral.

As for fish oil, a good vegetarian source of Omega oils is flaxseed oil.

One good reason to stay away from fish (aside from the plethora of reasons to avoid meat in general), is that humans have polluted the oceans badly. There is everything from medical waste to radioactive material in our oceans.