In regards to eating meat

[Monica]

This is how I see the entire LOO. Anything goes.

Thank you so much for clarifying!

I get it now. It's abundantly clear!

You think anything goes...murder, rape, war, cruelty, whatever.

OK.

Well, I disagree.

I think your view totally negates the entire STO path.

But I understand that you think the STO path is all bogus anyway.

Everything I have done from the day I was born is STS. Every word I have written in this forum has been STS.

STO is a bunch of self aggrandizing poop.

You have made your stance very clear, 3DM!

At this point, I hope you will understand that I'm really not interested in any further discussion with you. We shall just have to agree to disagree!

I am interested in focusing on the STO path.

Blessings to you on your path, whatever it is and wherever it leads you. And I mean that with all sincerity.

[3DMonkey]

Okay, well I never intended this to be about anyone's personal path.

[kia]

3D I resonate with most of the stuff you say in here. I eat mostly what my body/mind asks me to and what my pocket can pay for and I´m just grateful for that everyday. In my country being a complete vegetarian is very expensive. Very. In my city for example, everyone lives in flats, no way to grow veggies, and there are about 300.000 people and only 2 vegetarian shops and no restaurants. Sometimes we forget about how privileged we are that we can choose. There is so many people out there as much awake as everyone in here that don’t have a choice.
I leave this video if anyone wants to see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ4a_Gu49SA

[Confused]

There is so many people out there as much awake as everyone in here that don’t have a choice.

You can put me down to that list for the moment. But I will get away from that run soon. Amen

[3DMonkey]

I believe it to be the most important part of everything we do- listen to your Self. This is the key. Ra expresses this over and over throughout the material.

How do we know we chose correctly? We are comfortable with it. We can create comfort and discomfort alike. We do have this power. I haven't personally mastered it, but I can see it occasionally.

Love to All

[Confused]

I believe it to be the most important part of everything we do- listen to your Self.

And I will listen to 3 too :@

[BrownEye]

I believe it to be the most important part of everything we do- listen to your Self. This is the key.

I think what is being overlooked with your statement is the fact that we have more than one self and the average Man thinks of the ego as the self. That is where the evils of self gratification come into play. Ego tends to put self gratification above needs.

If you sit back and look at the populace, what percentage do you think communicate with their soul, not to mention asking what it needs? Or better yet, how many even know how to communicate with their soul? Some that think they do tend to think a feeling is a communication, which can happen from any source of influence, lol even gas.

[3DMonkey]

I believe it to be the most important part of everything we do- listen to your Self. This is the key.

I think what is being overlooked with your statement is the fact that we have more than one self and the average Man thinks of the ego as the self. That is where the evils of self gratification come into play. Ego tends to put self gratification above needs.

If you sit back and look at the populace, what percentage do you think communicate with their soul, not to mention asking what it needs? Or better yet, how many even know how to communicate with their soul? Some that think they do tend to think a feeling is a communication, which can happen from any source of influence, lol even gas.

Even if they apply "seeking the self" poorly, practice makes them better. Again, I'm no expert at it, but I know I shouldn't stop trying.

In one way or another, I think 100% of entities communicate with their soul. If they weren't, they wouldn't exist.

[Monica]

I think what is being overlooked with your statement is the fact that we have more than one self and the average Man thinks of the ego as the self. That is where the evils of self gratification come into play. Ego tends to put self gratification above needs.

If you sit back and look at the populace, what percentage do you think communicate with their soul, not to mention asking what it needs? Or better yet, how many even know how to communicate with their soul? Some that think they do tend to think a feeling is a communication, which can happen from any source of influence, lol even gas.

Good points, Pickle. I agree that, ultimately, we should trust what resonates, provided we have sincerely sought our highest guidance. But, all too often, the philosophy of "If it feels good do it" is used as a replacement for earnest seeking.

[kia]

the philosophy of "If it feels good do it" is used as a replacement for earnest seeking.

I agree. I think "If it feels good do it" is one of the biggest deception

[BrownEye]

I still need to back read this thread. Caught the end of what looked like a small flame war lol.

Off topic, but this is the closest I have seen anyone come to describing the soul. Problem is the same as always, no real instruction on how to communicate with your own soul. Part of the learning process I guess.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is3CPHzCg_w

[Monica]

I still need to back read this thread. Caught the end of what looked like a small flame war lol.

Unfortunately, that happened a couple of times in this thread. The topic of eating animals is a very hot topic, with buttons easily pushed.

[Unbound]

Hot as a barbecue, mm, mm. LOL

[BrownEye]

Hot as a barbecue, mm, mm. LOL

Jeez man, a barbeque would plug me up for a week. A body can handle abuse for so long, mine has reached its limit. I was pretty much forced to clean up my act. I can use my mother as an example of what happens if I ignored the symptoms or went to a doctor.

[Monica]

3D I resonate with most of the stuff you say in here. I eat mostly what my body/mind asks me to and what my pocket can pay for and I´m just grateful for that everyday. In my country being a complete vegetarian is very expensive. Very. In my city for example, everyone lives in flats, no way to grow veggies, and there are about 300.000 people and only 2 vegetarian shops and no restaurants. Sometimes we forget about how privileged we are that we can choose. There is so many people out there as much awake as everyone in here that don’t have a choice.

Are you saying that rice, beans, wheat, corn, lettuce, carrots, apples, bananas, etc. cost more than meat?

That is strange, being that meat production require far more space and resources than feeding the crops directly to humans.

Here in the US, we can buy a bag of pinto beans for very cheap, and it will cook lots of pots of beans.

Most people who eat animals, also eat some fruits and veggies, so the cost for the fruits and veggies is the same (unless you go raw vegan, in which case you'd be eating more fruits and veggies).

The meat is just replace by rice, beans and other grains and legumes, which are much cheaper than meat.

It costs a lot to feed those cows. I'm puzzled as to how rice, beans, etc. would be more expensive than meat.

[BrownEye]

Don't forget how govt subsidizes bad foods and creates this belief that certain foods are cheaper. People gotta look at why the govt pays certain players to drop their prices.

[Joe6]

Its quite easy today to learn a lot using internet. Anyone who wants to know how they treat animals and how governments (read: big companies) all around the world have make it legal to abuse animals for the sake of money. After watching few documents and books its much easier to give up eating meat or concentrate to buy atleast organic. Today we generally eat too much so eating less leaves more money to put on quality. Quality will be the thing in the future, not volume. Today most of us buy cheapest and volume.

I dont recommend any meat eater to change the whole diet over night. Do it slowly, study a lot and try out different combinations. Everyone has different body so if someone feels great with 80-10-10 diet it isnt sure that suites you well, it can be 60-20-20 etc. and you have to make your body to adapt that which may take even year or two. Everyone also reacts differently to diet changes and we have a lot of toxic waste stored in our bodys fat cells so your feeling can go very wrong at first months which is called transitional time and by that time most of us change back to that old diet habits.

Personally I have great difficulties to change to vegan diet. I know I can do it with great transitional time but at the moment after a year I still have 2-3 meat days a week. I have a lot of food allergies and atopic exzema from the childhood. Its really bad combination and itchy sleepless mind blowing nights are quaranteed to hyper sensitive persons like me. I firstly really didnt know what on earth I have thought when I have put those in my life-challenges-list, except that without my skin problems I wouldnt have awaken to search/study in the food scene, found raw food, tested it and awoke to search on spirituality and then found Law of One and now I have a little grasp how I planned it.

[3DMonkey]

Aren't restaurants the majority contributor to the profit of meat?
Seems likely to me.

(I get so frustrated with the idea that homeowners should start the electrical reduction revolution. Let me know when the five hotels down the road at twenty percent occupancy turn their electricity off. )

I don't eat out. I have greatly reduced meat consumption. When I do eat it, it's likely to be venison. For what it's worth. Whatever. I let my family eat what they want. My kids love meat. I will not ask them to kill an animal with their bare hands to see how they feel about it

[BrownEye]

I don't eat out. I have greatly reduced meat consumption. When I do eat it, it's likely to be venison. For what it's worth. Whatever. I let my family eat what they want. My kids love meat. I will not ask them to kill an animal with their bare hands to see how they feel about it

The last type of meat I was able to eat was ground ostrich. It is also one of those meats that does not have to be cooked to kill off the little bugs that will kill you. The PH is such that you can eat it as raw as you would like. The Inuit are fairly healthy while eating meat, but it's all raw.

I have worked in many restaraunts when I was younger. One of those things where you really don't want to know what your food went through before you put it in your mouth.

Its quite easy today to learn a lot using internet.

This is what makes this time in history so special, we have at our fingertips the easiest most abundant source of information and we take it for granted. What a monk may have spent his life searching for can be found in minutes just plugging in keywords. A seeker had to first acquire the books, then read the whole dang book to see if it had what he was looking for. Too bad people don't know what they have until it is gone LoL.

[Monica]

Aren't restaurants the majority contributor to the profit of meat?

Yes. But average people keep those restaurants in business.

My kids love meat. I will not ask them to kill an animal with their bare hands to see how they feel about it

I hated it at the time, but I am now very grateful that my dad made me hold the legs of the chickens when he cut off their heads. The image of those headless chickens flopping around, and the glazed look in their lifeless eyes, and the blood pouring out of their necks, is indeliably stamped in my mind.

I have a friend who ate a lot of meat and said she could never be without it. She was married to a vegetarian. They couldn't agree about how to raise the kids so they finally agreed to let them decide for themselves, but with their eyes wide open. They wanted the kids to make an informed decision.

So, the mom took the kids to a slaughterhouse.

The kids shrugged it off and continued eating their McNuggets.

The mom is now a vegetarian.

[kia]

3D I resonate with most of the stuff you say in here. I eat mostly what my body/mind asks me to and what my pocket can pay for and I´m just grateful for that everyday. In my country being a complete vegetarian is very expensive. Very. In my city for example, everyone lives in flats, no way to grow veggies, and there are about 300.000 people and only 2 vegetarian shops and no restaurants. Sometimes we forget about how privileged we are that we can choose. There is so many people out there as much awake as everyone in here that don’t have a choice.

Are you saying that rice, beans, wheat, corn, lettuce, carrots, apples, bananas, etc. cost more than meat?

That is strange, being that meat production require far more space and resources than feeding the crops directly to humans.

Here in the US, we can buy a bag of pinto beans for very cheap, and it will cook lots of pots of beans.

Most people who eat animals, also eat some fruits and veggies, so the cost for the fruits and veggies is the same (unless you go raw vegan, in which case you'd be eating more fruits and veggies).

The meat is just replace by rice, beans and other grains and legumes, which are much cheaper than meat.

It costs a lot to feed those cows. I'm puzzled as to how rice, beans, etc. would be more expensive than meat.

Yes, basically I said that. The veggies and fruits that you have named are very commonly seen is supermarkets and they slighter cheaper. However, we have not as much variety of veggies, fruits... as you guys have like avocados, pumpkin, asparagus, pineapples, mangos, grapes, black and red beans, whole-grain bread, aubergines, yellow peppers, broccoli….among others like seeds (very important) are sometimes difficult and very expensive to get. In Spain we have also a very high economic crisis, which leads almost 30% unemployment. For families, living as I said in flats (anywhere) it will be very expensive to have a healthy vegetarian diet in terms of money and facilities (find the shop that has it).My point wasn´t talking about Spain really, it was only a situational/geographical example. Other time I lived in Morocco for 6 months and no way you could be just a vegetarian, they live on tuna mostly, eggs, meat, salad and the best oranges in the world But they only have oranges Seriously if you go to the supermarkets it’s really hard to find any veggie or fruit that looks healthy…still every one of them blesses their food. Or at least that was my impression. They´re very grateful people. Anyway, another example
I know is wrong killing. I try my best not to eat any meat myself. Except from when I´m sick and my mum (old school) convinced me always to have a steak. And other times in which I feel I bit down of energy and my body asks me to…but I do try not to. I do eat fish every now and then. Nowadays, I even find it hard to go to supermarkets, I never go through the meat section because sometimes that smell just puts me off and I want to get out of there ASAP. So when that happens and I think about my time in Morocco I do feel sad

[Monica]

The veggies and fruits that you have named are very commonly seen is supermarkets and they slighter cheaper. However, we have not as much variety of veggies, fruits... as you guys have like avocados, pumpkin, asparagus, pineapples, mangos, grapes, black and red beans, whole-grain bread, aubergines, yellow peppers, broccoli….among others like seeds (very important) are sometimes difficult and very expensive to get.

Do you have any forests or meadows near your home? If there are any wild areas (not polluted with bug sprays or herbicides) then you could forage for wild fruits, nuts, roots and vegetables that are about 100 times more nutritious than any of those foods you listed.

There are many books on how to identify wild foods. I am learning, and it's fun!

The Corkboard > Free Food and Medicine!

Just an idea to consider! Food doesn't have to cost $$.

You can also grow all sorts of sprouts in a kitchen window. Cheap.

Another idea is to start a community garden in the apartment complex. A few fruit trees and a small patch of land could yield a lot of produce.

Again, just some ideas! Many communities are doing this.

Except from when I´m sick and my mum (old school) convinced me always to have a steak.

According to many alternative doctors, when a person is sick, it's best to eat fresh fruits and vegetables, rather than anything heavy like meat or dairy. The fresh foods have nutrients that help the body's immune system.

Nowadays, I even find it hard to go to supermarkets, I never go through the meat section because sometimes that smell just puts me off and I want to get out of there ASAP.

Me too. I never walk thru the meat section if I can help it.

I have a friend who works at a supermarket and recently became a vegetarian, after her experience of being in the meat freezer and suddenly recognizing all the meat as body parts of entities. She had an intensely emotional experience and broke down crying and nearly threw up. This from someone who was always an avid meat-eater. It just hit suddenly, that one day, and she never saw meat the same again since.

[kia]

The veggies and fruits that you have named are very commonly seen is supermarkets and they slighter cheaper. However, we have not as much variety of veggies, fruits... as you guys have like avocados, pumpkin, asparagus, pineapples, mangos, grapes, black and red beans, whole-grain bread, aubergines, yellow peppers, broccoli….among others like seeds (very important) are sometimes difficult and very expensive to get.

Do you have any forests or meadows near your home? If there are any wild areas (not polluted with bug sprays or herbicides) then you could forage for wild fruits, nuts, roots and vegetables that are about 100 times more nutritious than any of those foods you listed.

There are many books on how to identify wild foods. I am learning, and it's fun!

The Corkboard > Free Food and Medicine!

Just an idea to consider! Food doesn't have to cost $$.

You can also grow all sorts of sprouts in a kitchen window. Cheap.

Another idea is to start a community garden in the apartment complex. A few fruit trees and a small patch of land could yield a lot of produce.

Again, just some ideas! Many communities are doing this.

Thanks for the tips. I´m growing herbs in my kitchen window Love the smell of basil
most of us dont have comunity gardens, some have terraces/balconies..

Except from when I´m sick and my mum (old school) convinced me always to have a steak.
According to many alternative doctors, when a person is sick, it's best to eat fresh fruits and vegetables, rather than anything heavy like meat or dairy. The fresh foods have nutrients that help the body's immune system.

Yes, I know. I try to tell her that. She aggress but then she goes all about the lack of iron I might have for not having meat and all her grandmother remedies and blah blah blah she´s only caring and she prepares with love this beautiful food for me to feel better. So I´m just grateful to her and her effort. But yes, I agree with alternative methods.

[Monica]

Thanks for the tips. I´m growing herbs in my kitchen window Love the smell of basil
most of us dont have comunity gardens, some have terraces/balconies..

Oh, that's great! You'd be amazed at how much food can be grown on a balcony! There are dwarf fruit trees, that get only about 5 or 6 feet tall, and can be grown in pots. In a small, say, 4 by 8 foot space, one could grow a fruit tree, potatoes, tomatoes, lots of salad greens, cucumbers, squash, peppers, strawberries and blueberries! The strawberries and tomatoes can be grown in hanging pots. You could grow an entire barrel of potatoes! All in that tiny space! Then, in the window, in about 2 feet by 1 foot, one could grow alfalfa sprouts, lentil sprouts, mung sprouts, and other varieties of sprouts, providing all the salad greens you could possibly want! Harvestable in just a few days! It's cheap, fun and easy!

Yes, I know. I try to tell her that. She aggress but then she goes all about the lack of iron I might have for not having meat and all her grandmother remedies and blah blah blah she´s only caring and she prepares with love this beautiful food for me to feel better. So I´m just grateful to her and her effort. But yes, I agree with alternative methods.

It's difficult when they don't understand that we now know plenty of iron can be gotten from leafy greens, etc., but really do care and are offering their 'old school' ways with love. You are blessed to have someone who cares about you!

[Confused]

When did you turn vegetarian, Monica? I am of course assuming you consumed meat until some point in your life. Sorry if that assumption is wrong.

I am interested in the spiritual and psychological process behind your acceptance of vegetarianism?

[Monica]

When did you turn vegetarian, Monica? I am of course assuming you consumed meat until some point in your life. Sorry if that assumption is wrong.

I am interested in the spiritual and psychological process behind your acceptance of vegetarianism?

I had an unusual eating disorder as a child and wouldn't eat any 'normal' foods like bread, pizza, meat, etc. I can't say I was a vegetarian, though, because I wouldn't eat any fruits or veggies either! My mom would try to force me to eat a tiny bit of meat, bread, or apple, and I would immediately throw it up! I literally lived on milk, cookies and sweets.

I grew out of the eating disorder at age 10 and started eating typical junk food: hamburgers, pizzas, etc.

Surprise surprise, I was very sick, with chronic sinus headaches, frequent colds, flus, etc. from all that 'glue' in my system. So at age 21 I sought help from an alternative practitioner, who helped me improve my diet. I quit the junk foods and got off red meat. (I now chuckle at that, since it's a myth that chicken is any better than red meat.) At that time, it was strictly for health reasons.

Around that time, I was reading Edgar Cayce and exploring New Age spirituality. I noticed that Cayce told some people to eat meat, but told others to "not lower their vibration with animal foods." I found this interesting.

Then, maybe a year or so later, I came across 2 books that changed my life: Survival into the 21st Century by Viktoras Kulvinskas (Classic raw vegan 'bible' which I don't agree with totally - very hippie and VERY hardcore radical!) and The Essene Gospel of Peace (attributed to Jesus).

I didn't care whether The Essene Gospel of Peace was actually written by Jesus or not, because by that time I was letting go of Christianity anyway. And it's written in archaic, Biblical-style terminology. But the essence of it resonated deeply with me, and together with Viktoras' book, something shifted in me. I saw the truth of it so clearly...

In 1982, I gave up all meat...that means all dead animals...the day I read that book. It was a final, instant, absolute change, like a light switch turning on. Dead animals ceased to be recognized as food to me. I was no more interested in eating a dead animal carcass than I am in eating this keyboard.

I never looked back.

[Confused]

I literally lived on milk, cookies and sweets.

Now I know why you are such a sweet loving person!!

I saw the truth of it so clearly...

Now that is quite an intriguing and cryptic statement. Can you elaborate more, Monica? What exactly was the truth of it, as you realized it from the reading of the Essene gospel and other material?

I was no more interested in eating a dead animal carcass than I am in eating this keyboard.

LOL!!

[Monica]

Now I know why you are such a sweet loving person!!

Aww...

Now that is quite an intriguing and cryptic statement. Can you elaborate more, Monica? What exactly was the truth of it, as you realized it from the reading of the Essene gospel and other material?

Death begets death. Life begets Life.

LOL!!

My keyboard doesn't repulse me.

[Confused]

Death begets death. Life begets Life.

The Essenes seemed to be strict in terms of diet, I guess. Do you believe eating meat has spiritual effects on the 3D human entity, Monica?

Even in the LOO, Ra sort of indicates having meat only if needed at the utmost, I think --

From 40.14:

The vegetables, the fruits, the grains, and to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism, the animal products.

[Monica]

Do you believe eating meat has spiritual effects on the 3D human entity, Monica?

Yes, absolutely.

Even in the LOO, Ra sort of indicates having meat only if needed at the utmost, I think --

From 40.14:

The vegetables, the fruits, the grains, and to the extent necessary for the individual metabolism, the animal products.

Ra never mentioned meat.

Animal products could mean milk, cheese or eggs.

Regardless, I agree with your point: the term if necessary indicates that animal products should be consumed only if necessary.

With a bit of education and something called free will, it's simply not necessary, for most people, to consume animal products.