Are you going to take the vaccine?

[omcasey]

Can anyone recommend a credible source for information on long-term side effects of the vaccines (as opposed to the "long-haul" covid cases)? 

I've been looking, and I find anecdotal stories from people (and their specific symptoms). Yet, the medical establishment seems to be saying (in short) no real long-lasting side effects except in very rare cases. But that doesn't match what some people are experiencing. 

I wonder if science doesn't know, and hasn't caught up, yet because these vaccines were developed and distributed so quickly.

I got two doses of a covid vaccine. The second dose took me down: horrible, debilitating pain in my joints. I could not move any part of my body without crumpling in pain. I was bed-ridden for 2 days, and had to crawl very slowly, with tears streaming from the pain, to the bathroom to get OTC pain medicine.

I now have lingering joint pain (esp in my knees). And, I'm wondering: could it be related to the vaccine? It feels like my body is in a semi-inflammatory state ... not as bad as it was right after the dose, but a lingering heightened immune response. That's the best way I can describe it.

I apologize for asking for this specific information, because I bet one of you dear friends already has asked/received it. But there are 64 pages of this thread?!? And, I'm late to the party.

Thanks in advance.

Hello, IndigoSalvia

I know you asked for information specifically on long term side effects of the injections but I thought I would give you a list of sites that may be helpful to you. Where you may be able to find information to your liking that is helpful to you. I keep a thread on my own boards which compiles these Doctors and sites, I will link it right at the top:

Science : Doctors List : ( the CV Rabbit Hole )
[/url]America's Frontline Doctors
AAPS, Association of American Physicians and Surgeons
Front Line Covid Critical Care Alliance

And because you have mentioned potential injury to yourself:

HRSA.gov, Injury Compensation Program

[url=https://www.hrsa.gov/cicp]I will keep my eye out for the exact information you have requested. 

Yes there are many data bases collecting this information. 


My best to you,

Casey

[MonadicSpectrum]

Can anyone recommend a credible source for information on long-term side effects of the vaccines (as opposed to the "long-haul" covid cases)? 

I've been looking, and I find anecdotal stories from people (and their specific symptoms). Yet, the medical establishment seems to be saying (in short) no real long-lasting side effects except in very rare cases. But that doesn't match what some people are experiencing. 

I wonder if science doesn't know, and hasn't caught up, yet because these vaccines were developed and distributed so quickly.

I got two doses of a covid vaccine. The second dose took me down: horrible, debilitating pain in my joints. I could not move any part of my body without crumpling in pain. I was bed-ridden for 2 days, and had to crawl very slowly, with tears streaming from the pain, to the bathroom to get OTC pain medicine.

I now have lingering joint pain (esp in my knees). And, I'm wondering: could it be related to the vaccine? It feels like my body is in a semi-inflammatory state ... not as bad as it was right after the dose, but a lingering heightened immune response. That's the best way I can describe it.

I apologize for asking for this specific information, because I bet one of you dear friends already has asked/received it. But there are 64 pages of this thread?!? And, I'm late to the party.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry to hear about the negative experiences you are facing. Praying you have a swift recovery.

Just wanted to share a healing protocol that was shared with me by those I trust for those with negative experiences caused by a Covid vaccine: https://exopolitics.blogs.com/internatio...de-th.html

[Margan]

I met with three old friends some weeks ago, we walked around town and later had a coffee before they went back to Munich. I already felt drained and was glad when they finally left.
Two days later I came down with cold symptoms, throat ache and a bit of coughing. Like the colds I had in earlier years but I did not have them for a while now.
The thing is... all three of them are fully vaccinated. I mean I made sure to keep my distance (although when we had the coffee we sat a bit closer) but still I wonder... could this have been a case of shedding?
Dr Mikovits says that the shedding should not be a problem and is actually helping the immune system. Still I feel it wierd that I came down with those symptoms after meeting them.

[Dtris]

I met with three old friends some weeks ago, we walked around town and later had a coffee before they went back to Munich. I already felt drained and was glad when they finally left.
Two days later I came down with cold symptoms, throat ache and a bit of coughing. Like the colds I had in earlier years but I did not have them for a while now.
The thing is... all three of them are fully vaccinated. I mean I made sure to keep my distance (although when we had the coffee we sat a bit closer) but still I wonder... could this have been a case of shedding?
Dr Mikovits says that the shedding should not be a problem and is actually helping the immune system. Still I feel it wierd that I came down with those symptoms after meeting them.

Hard to say but the mRNA vaccines do not actually stop someone getting infected, they just reduce or eliminate the symptoms which are caused by the bodies immune response to the spike protein. This make those who are vaccinated much likely to be asymptomatic carriers.

[zedro]

The spike protein itself is a toxic configuration, mRNA programs your body to essentially make a toxic substance of an unknown quantity (could be zero, could be enough to clot your system). Normal flu vaccines give you a set dose of viral structures, it is passive. This is what is so insane about the technology, essentially it tricks the body into producing a toxic element.

I can sense when someone is shedding oddly enough, I get a weird sensation (I think it's an energetic reaction, not a physiological one). It does not occur just after a shot (I have escorted a friend to get a shot and sat in a vehicle with them), it always happens after a few days and the signal intensifies the closer I get. It also happened when someone allegedly got the flu (in BC, vaxxed people get the flu, unvaxxed get COVID....the stats are counter that of anywhere else to an unlikely degree of 98% at the time, it's really fishy).

[Margan]

My friend says she gets headachey around the vaxxd.

[MonadicSpectrum]

Regarding shedding, I want to share some tools that work well for me for protection around those who shed. Take what resonates and leave the rest.

1. A black crystal. I have a black crystal necklace that I wear when I know I'm going to be around those who shed for a significant period of time.

2. A black flame visualization. Imagine a black flame in your mind's eye, and the flame actively disconnecting your energy fields from those energies that will harm you through absorption rather than connection.

Black crystals and black flames are often tools for service-to-self adepts to disconnect from others so I don't recommend using it beyond setting boundaries and protecting yourself when necessary if you wish to polarize positive. Service-to-other individuals have a natural tendency to radiate and connect energetically to others, but this can be harmful to the self if one is picking up on more powerful negative energy than one is capable of transmuting.

I recommend this video if you wish to learn more about these techniques: https://youtu.be/3PKUhwrr_iI

[zedro]

Yeah I could describe it as a type of headache, like if you've ever played with those static charge generators.

Side note: if I'm about to say something dumb or controversial, I'll get an energetic pressure in my solar plexus and/or heart Chakra, I guess depending on what energy center is being involved. What fun new senses to be further confused by lol.

[zedro]

Regarding shedding, I want to share some tools that work well for me for protection around those who shed. Take what resonates and leave the rest.

1. A black crystal. I have a black crystal necklace that I wear when I know I'm going to be around those who shed for a significant period of time.

2. A black flame visualization. Imagine a black flame in your mind's eye, and the flame actively disconnecting your energy fields from those energies that will harm you through absorption rather than connection.

Black crystals and black flames are often tools for service-to-self adepts to disconnect from others so I don't recommend using it beyond setting boundaries and protecting yourself when necessary if you wish to polarize positive. Service-to-other individuals have a natural tendency to radiate and connect energetically to others, but this can be harmful to the self if one is picking up on more powerful negative energy than one is capable of transmuting.

I recommend this video if you wish to learn more about these techniques: https://youtu.be/3PKUhwrr_iI

By black crystals do you mean shungite or tourmaline? I've been advised about shungite to absorb negative energies but to not over use it. I used to get quite the intense reaction/sensation from it but not so much anymore. It makes sense about disconnecting, it's what I need for crowds as it can get overwhelming.

[MonadicSpectrum]

By black crystals do you mean shungite or tourmaline?

Yes, exactly. Other examples of black crystals are obsedian, onyx, and hematite.

[schubert]

LET'S GET SOMETHING CLEAR. THIS IS WHAT'S BEING FOUND IN COVID VACCINES.




source: https://www.bitchute.com/video/2EXu0Zb9xLWP | https://rumble.com/vnhvn9-transhumanism-...virus.html

detox protocol: https://exopolitics.blogs.com/internatio...de-th.html

[Diana]

For anyone who does not want to be vaccinated but is concerned about losing a job, there is a new platform that connects employers that do not mandate vaccines with workers who do not want to be vaccinated. Here is the link:

redballoon.work

In the below link the founder of Red Balloon is interviewed. I recommend not dismissing the idea by judging the show if you are on the side of the official narrative. In any case, this platform is a very good thing in light of the many people facing losing their jobs. It's on Rumble and there is no option for the video here, so you can follow the link:

video with Red Balloon interview

[omcasey]

No Vax Mandate Job Board

Diana, thank you for posting this, here is another ( we should collect them all together ) : NoVaxMandate.org

They are new but will gather more jobs listings as people become aware.

[zedro]

This should be worrying to those who are overweight and obese, and explains why the obesity co-morbidity rates for obese people is so high.



https://highintensityhealth.com/impaired...-immunity/
https://physician-news.umiamihealth.org/...-response/
https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0245424
https://doi.org/10.1038/s41366-021-01016-9

[zedro]

Oh and according to LaPress (quebec based newspaper/rag), the deer in Granby Zoo will get vaccinated, as well as the wild deer in Longueil (south of montreal). So now the deer may or may not be producing spike proteins? Of course there is zero science behind this, and I can't tell if this is just a money scam or something more nefarious (graphene?). So when do our pets get required to be vaccinated?

This is getting more out of control everyday, I'm curious to whom still supports this and thinks this is all rational and for the "greater good"....

[Diana]

Oh and according to LaPress (quebec  based newspaper/rag), the deer in Granby Zoo will get vaccinated, as well as the wild deer in Longueil (south of montreal). So now the deer may or may not be producing spike proteins? Of course there is zero science behind this, and I can't tell if this is just a money scam or something more nefarious (graphene?). So when do our pets get required to be vaccinated?

This is getting more out of control everyday, I'm curious to whom still supports this and thinks this is all rational and for the "greater good"....

I found this about the zoo (and deer population) in another source. But the article also said there is no evidence of animal-to-human transmission. Crazy indeed. As far as I can tell, the only thing this is benefitting are the pharmaceutical companies. 

I would like to say more about zoos and hunters (who are being warned to wear masks when slaughtering their deer kills), but I will leave that for an appropriate place.

[Patrick]

...This is getting more out of control everyday, I'm curious to whom still supports this and thinks this is all rational and for the "greater good"....

I do... but I no longer believe that I can reach this far down into the rabbit hole in order to have a real discussion on that subject. So I figured the only sensible thing to do is to wait about 3 years and see if the world of conspirations has moved to other more interesting pastures by then.

[zedro]

Guess I'm confounded by how people can equate successfully navigating a "spiritual test" to literally conforming to the status quo, where no sacrifice is made, where one is rewarded with a "normal life" by a hierarchical power structure by participating in a control system that is punishing those who actually have everything to lose, freedom (will) and livelihood. It takes no effort or wisdom to turn on the TV and follow the bouncing ball, to repeat what is told to you, to do what is expected from you, to ignore what information is not approved by the TV, all while being convinced that those who do not conform to what the TV says are evil at worse, or misguided and stupid at best, and that they should separated and punished. It is literally the path of least resistance, physically, mentally and emotionally.

Sometimes interpreting context is more important than interpreting facts.

[Patrick]

Everything in 3D is always the same spiritual test. We are presented with catalysts, none of which has any importance in and of itself, and the test is how we react to all those catalysts. There is Love in the moment, will we see it? We are not here to fix anything, we are here to find out if we can manage to love this planet as it is, warts and all.

Regarding vaccination, from the bottom of the rabbit hole it might seem impossible to find where the Love is in this. But from where I am standing it is obvious to me. First, I do not believe even one iota of all that is said against vaccination. I see it as a true healing modality. So of course that makes it very easy for me to see it very positively and with Love.

On the other hand, where I put my efforts at the moment is into seeing where the Love is in this whole anti-vaccination movement. I see some of it, like people wanting to protect others from what they believe is a grave threat, I can see the Love there. But I have a lot of work to do still in that regard.

I guess that if everyone is really wishing to find Love in everything, no matter where we stand, we are all going to find each others and meet in the middle somehow.

[Diana]

Everything in 3D is always the same spiritual test. We are presented with catalysts, none of which has any importance in and of itself, and the test is how we react to all those catalysts. There is Love in the moment, will we see it? We are not here to fix anything, we are here to find out if we can manage to love this planet as it is, warts and all.

I'd like to elaborate on this. Yes, our reaction to catalyst is the bottom line; then, the processing of it is another key; and beyond that, does this lead to transformation, or, rather, does it enhance polarization.

As far as loving this planet, personally I do not see this as separate from loving myself. More on this below.

I will add here that I am not trying to argue with your stance, Patrick. I respect your approach, and I am just using your post as a springboard to explain mine.

Regarding vaccination, from the bottom of the rabbit hole it might seem impossible to find where the Love is in this. But from where I am standing it is obvious to me. First, I do not believe even one iota of all that is said against vaccination. I see it as a true healing modality. So of course that makes it very easy for me to see it very positively and with Love.

On the other hand, where I put my efforts at the moment is into seeing where the Love is in this whole anti-vaccination movement. I see some of it, like people wanting to protect others from what they believe is a grave threat, I can see the Love there. But I have a lot of work to do still in that regard.

There are many people who are concerned with the adverse effects of the vaccines, and this is a legitimate concern. You may be right, Patrick, that the vaccines are fine, and again, we will know in the following years what the longterm effects are (because that data is not available yet). That is not what concerns me in this global event.

My concern is free will and freedom. Love according to Ra is important, but so is free will. I personally have a strong desire to maintain my autonomy as an individual while also having the capacity to accept this planet as is, though that can be very difficult at times. I have compassion for all beings, including myself. If someone excludes themselves they create separation in my view. I am not going to willingly accept my own enslavement (human rights and freedoms eroded) for what is called the good of all yet there is little evidence this is true. I would have to believe the "official narrative" which is not even remotely reliable in my opinion. If I am not allowed to travel in the future due to not being vaccinated, then so be it—I can accept where this world has gone—but I will not give up my freedom to choose; in other words, I will not just do what corrupt governments and institutions (pharmaceutical and insurance companies) say because that's what they say. There is wisdom which may be balanced with love, and discernment is an aspect of wisdom. I am not saying my wisdom is better than yours or anyone else's, but that's where free will and freedom come in.

And, I have been doing more than the usual research into a cross section of the media on Covid and the vaccines, and honestly I see no real evidence that the vaccines are worth the risk. Especially now that they want to vaccinate very young children.  

I guess that if everyone is really wishing to find Love in everything, no matter where we stand, we are all going to find each others and meet in the middle somehow.

The world just keeps getting more divided and divisive on this issue. My thoughts turn to forgiveness being where we end up in the transition to 4th density. I think in the future the general public may forgive corrupt governments and institutions and STS entities for the harm caused. Not only regarding this pandemic, but in all things. I don't see any other way of moving past the power/greed structures.

I don't usually talk about forgiveness, and prefer to focus on detachment, or in other words, acceptance. But I think in order to move towards harmony as a global society, that the corrupted will need the forgiveness. An example would be forgiving those ensconced in power positions such as political figures, CEOs of banks and pharmaceutical companies, etc., who have been drunk on power and greed and aren't necessarily trying to polarize STS. I think there may be a lot of people like this who just keep playing the money game and like a sybarite, just enjoying the creature comfort of the whole scenario. Politicians I think get up there in the structure and find that they are stuck and compromise their ethics and get lost in the game. 

As for wanderers and those who come here to love this place and not fix it, this idea does not preclude freedom. I don't recall Ra saying anything about coming here with the expectation of being a slave to this place. But Ra did mention individual unique expression being important, and that does not line up with sacrificing one's authenticity to comply with the 3d powers controlling the planet. I will add, to clarify, that I don't think all individuals in politics or working in any corrupt institutions are corrupt themselves; the systems are too complex and compartmentalized for such simplicity.

[IndigoSalvia]

After getting the vaccine (out of what I can see, in hindsight, as driven by both love [for self and others] and fear energies in me), I have taken a step back from the flurry of information, which is credible and heart-felt information from all angles. 

I have explored what others have shared here on this forum, and outside of this forum. I am grateful for this information, and I am pursuing what resonates for me. 

I will not be getting a booster, in large part due to the harshness with which my body received the vaccine. That's my free will choice, and I totally respect others' rights to make their own free will choices. 

In this moment, I stand in awe and marvel (love) at how each of us are consciously and intentionally dedicated to processing this catalyst, finding light and love within it in myriad, unique ways. Every one of us is making the most efficient use of this catalyst as we can. We are learning and growing on our individual spiritual journeys, as well as our unified spiritual journey, as the one/infinite creation we are.

[zedro]

Everything in 3D is always the same spiritual test. We are presented with catalysts, none of which has any importance in and of itself, and the test is how we react to all those catalysts. There is Love in the moment, will we see it? We are not here to fix anything, we are here to find out if we can manage to love this planet as it is, warts and all.

Regarding vaccination, from the bottom of the rabbit hole it might seem impossible to find where the Love is in this. But from where I am standing it is obvious to me. First, I do not believe even one iota of all that is said against vaccination. I see it as a true healing modality. So of course that makes it very easy for me to see it very positively and with Love.

On the other hand, where I put my efforts at the moment is into seeing where the Love is in this whole anti-vaccination movement. I see some of it, like people wanting to protect others from what they believe is a grave threat, I can see the Love there. But I have a lot of work to do still in that regard.

I guess that if everyone is really wishing to find Love in everything, no matter where we stand, we are all going to find each others and meet in the middle somehow.

I think you are ignoring the point, it's not about the vaccine or virus itself (because the consequence of such will manifest itself on an individual basis according to catalytic needs), I'm referring to how the vaccines and covid narratives are being used to divide people, isolate them, control them, and ultimately create a totalitarian control system. This is happening in plain sight, although it's easier to view in more extreme situations like Australia or countries where children are being removed from their families. I am a victim of this system currently, as are my closest friends.

So again, how does one justify this as a positive test for humanity (meaning participation is virtuous) , when the reality is most definitely that of separation and control. I tell people my vaccination status is irrelevant to getting a "freedom pass", I will not participate in an 'immoral' system that creates a separate class of person, where a non participant is labeled in such a way that opens up the road for a permanent apartheid, not to mention atrocities that have been repeated over and over again. All the sign posts are there, Ra warned us not to ignore them. Remember the significance of 3rd and 5th ray (the most 'troublesome' where negatives operate to perfect), it is beyond your personal choices, but relates to how you participate in and view society.

Not in it for an endless debate, I understand your stance as it reflects the common narrative that I can disseminate from TV and mainstream print. I just get perplexed on how students of the LOO material can ignore the metaphysical realities of how viruses and vaccines could work and manifest (I.e. as required), and further ignore the consequences of societal actions that obviously contradict their 'chosen' polarity. I know you will disagree with the whole interpretation, so I'm not compelled to dig further.

[zedro]

Actually a question on ones perspective just occurred to me:

Q1: Does anyone believe that not getting vaccinated poses a real threat to other people, and therefore is an infringement on other people's free will?

Q2: if yes to Q1, does one believe that those not vaccinated should in turn be controlled to mitigate the premise set in Q1?

[Patrick]

Not in it for an endless debate, I understand your stance as it reflects the common narrative that I can disseminate from TV and mainstream print.

I am not sure it is understood. The mainstream narrative is fear-based, just as the anti-vaccination narrative is fear-based. My own personal stance is not. I understand vaccination to be a positive manifestation. The way big pharma acts is not a positive manifestation, but they are just following the script that we setup as the basis of our society, that being the concept of money.

I just get perplexed on how students of the LOO material can ignore the metaphysical realities of how viruses and vaccines could work and manifest (I.e. as required), and further ignore the consequences of societal actions that obviously contradict their 'chosen' polarity. I know you will disagree with the whole interpretation, so I'm not compelled to dig further.

Where is Love in the moment? This is the question I ask of everything I encounter. So I am not ignoring anything from my point of view. It's just that nothing is just black or white in my world.

Q1: Does anyone believe that not getting vaccinated poses a real threat to other people, and therefore is an infringement on other people's free will?

No I don't believe that. I believe in taking responsibility for what happens to us.

Q2: if yes to Q1, does one believe that those not vaccinated should in turn be controlled to mitigate the premise set in Q1?

It was a no to Q1, but I am strongly against the control measures that are being put in place for this. It is really a shame that the authorities are milking this catalyst like that. It just helps to fuel the conspiration circles and the anti-vaccination narrative.

[zedro]

...the anti-vaccination narrative is fear-based. My own personal stance is not.

So anyone who believes that the vaccine may harm them is acting out of fear, but those who believe that the vaccine is 'salvation' from harm is acting out of love? How is this not a projection of one's own fears onto others who have the counter view for their own health?

This denies people their own inner guidance by assuming they are purely acting from outside (fear based) influence, it's interesting that you do not give the same logical path that you assign yourself.

Where is Love in the moment? This is the question I ask of everything I encounter. So I am not ignoring anything from my point of view. It's just that nothing is just black or white in my world.

Again you assign yourself the benefit of seeing the Grey areas, and not others who disagree. How many people have to make the statement that the vax/virus is an individually based catalyst with varying individuated consequences, how is that not seeing the spectrum?

And it seems unfathomable how you cannot discern where the Love is, because you default (ironically) to a black or white supposition: vaccination saves and so is love, not getting vaccinated harms and so is fear. Take away that narrative you subscribe to, and it becomes apparent that everyone is acting out of love for others and themselves, unless one believes in controlling others in either circumstance.

It's interesting that one can realize the source and implementation of a technology can be born from a desire to control, yet somehow not consider that energetic attachment doesn't work itself into the product itself. Because what I observe is the direct manifestation of that.

[Patrick]

So anyone who believes that the vaccine may harm them is acting out of fear, but those who believe that the vaccine is 'salvation' from harm is acting out of love?

No, like I said the mainstream narrative is fear-based as well. That is how they justify the control measures, because they fear the virus and the unvaccinated.

How is this not a projection of one's own fears onto others who have the counter view for their own health?

I do not share their fear of the virus or of the unvaccinated. As I do not share the fear of vaccination from the anti-vaccination movement.

This denies people their own inner guidance by assuming they are purely acting from outside (fear based) influence, it's interesting that you do not give the same logical path that you assign yourself.

As everyone else, I have indeed my own views about anything and everything. I have my own judgement which I use only towards making my own personal decisions.

But what makes you believe this denies anyone else their own personal views? I do not impose my judgment calls onto others.

The majority of information shared in this thread against vaccination is fear-based as far as I can discern. I know some people are not getting vaccinated simply because they do not believe they need it or maybe because it is too strongly attached to big pharma and stuff like that. Their reasons for not getting vaccinated are not necessarily fear-based. I am making that comment about the information that is shared in this thread against vaccination (the narrative). That information is fear-based in my opinion.

Again you assign yourself the benefit of seeing the Grey areas, and not others who disagree. How many people have to make the statement that the vax/virus is an individually based catalyst with varying individuated consequences, how is that not seeing the spectrum?

You asked the question: "I'm curious to whom still supports this and thinks this is all rational and for the "greater good"".

So I'm just opening a window into my thought processes in order to answer that question and in case anyone else is interested. It is also in order for readers to be aware that not everyone is against vaccination in these forums.

But while I do assign myself that benefit of having a wide point of view, why would you believe I am in any way denying the same of others?

It's interesting that one can realize the source and implementation of a technology can be born from a desire to control, yet somehow not consider that energetic attachment doesn't work itself into the product itself. Because what I observe is the direct manifestation of that.

Pardon me if I misunderstood your meaning here, but I do not believe vaccines are born from a desire to control.

And it seems unfathomable how you cannot discern where the Love is, because you default (ironically) to a black or white supposition: vaccination saves and so is love, not getting vaccinated harms and so is fear. Take away that narrative you subscribe to, and it becomes apparent that everyone is acting out of love for others and themselves, unless one believes in controlling others in either circumstance.

It seems you are trying to put words into my mouth. I do not believe that not getting vaccinated harms anyone in anyway whatsoever. If you have a headache and do not take Acetaminophen to alleviate it, why would that harm anyone else? I see vaccination in the same light. Not taking it is not going to harm anyone.

I am aware that Love is behind all of our actions. I do see that. Yet it does not mean I can see the whole path Love takes for everyone. For example, in the instance of someone being tortured to death, I might not be able to see what pathways Love is taking. Maybe the victim loves the torturer so much that he agreed to this before the incarnation just so the torturer could be able to feel the pleasure of torturing someone. Only Love is acting here, Love of self at the expense of others and love of others up to the ultimate sacrifice.

All I am saying is that all catalysts, big or small, are fabricated by the Universe in order to move us. What will be the motivations behind our movement? I did mention my belief that those sharing the information against vaccination are doing this out of Love for others and in order to protect others from what they believe is a grave threat.

We are all "misguided" to some extent, but that does not matter much. Our guidance is not guiding us directly toward Truth per se, it is only guiding us towards the roads we need to travel in order to learn what we came here to learn. So I am not worried one way or another. All is well. We are all going to end up within Truth whatever roads we traveled.

[MonadicSpectrum]

Just wanted to add to this thread that it can be helpful to view love and wisdom as two independent dimensions. Love can be seen as the motivation, the purpose, and the goal. Wisdom can be seen as the knowledge, skills, and power to make decisions that lead to the goal defined by love.

Regarding covid and vaccines, I think all service-to-other polarized people have the same loving goal to keep everyone in a healthy state. However, different people have different ideas on what is the most wise path to achieve the goal. Each person is viewing a set of data, calculating the costs and benefits, and coming to a conclusion on the best way to achieve the goal due to three reasons: viewing different sets of data, assigning different valuations of trust in data, and calculating what the data means in different ways.

Ultimately, most of us lack the wisdom to properly discern the truth on the most optimal path to achieve our agreed upon goals. Each of us can only do what we believe is best based on our best ability to collect and analyze data and learn from the results. But to complicate matters, one group of people are discerning a path to our goal through vaccines and viewing anyone who is opposed to vaccines as working against the goal while another group of people are discerning a path to our goal that excludes vaccines as vaccines are seen as harmful and viewing anyone who likes the vaccines as working against the goal. One group wants everyone to vaccinate themselves for protection while the other group wants everyone to build a healthy immune system through diet, exercise, and meditation. Since we openly admit our own fallibility, the service-to-other group should not seek to control others or force others to follow our calculations, but rather accept that others calculate differently and will face different consequences, but we can all learn together. I think if we take a step back, we can see that there is another variable that is important to include in our calculations: the service-to-self faction.

Regarding covid and vaccines, the goal of service-to-self polarized people is not to keep everyone in healthy state... the goal for the love of self is to use the situation to gain power, control, and money. If the situation resolves too quickly, then the opportunity will be lost and also if people solve the situation without relying on those in power, those in power will lose the power of people relying on them to solve problems. The calculations for service-to-self beings in this situation is to provide the "solution" to the problem, but the "solution" is actually focused more on gaining control rather than solving the problem. How can the service-to-self faction prevent others from solving the problem in ways that aren't the "solution" that gives them more power? Censorship, propaganda, and distraction. They can't have people realizing that the service-to-self group is not actually solving the problem as the highest priority so they have to blame some other group for the reason the solution isn't working: the scapegoat of the non-vaccinated. They have to convince the service-to-other population that what is good is bad and what is bad is good because the service-to-others want to do what is good, but what is good actually causes the service-to-self group to lose power so false information is the only way to maintain power. Finally, they have to convince the service-to-other population that control is actually the most wise path to their goal rather than freedom and acceptance.

The only path forward for the service-to-other group is to realize that there is much false information being created by the service-to-self group, decide to seek humility, keep exploring all the data, keep calculating all the data, and always be open to correction if one reached some wrong conclusions in the past. There will be miscalculations, and there will be negative consequences from these miscalculations, but the only way to grow is to learn from the consequences and keep focus on the goal at hand.

The power of which you speak is a spiritual power. The powers of the mind, as such, do not encompass such works as these. You may, with some fruitfulness, consider the possibilities of moonlight. You are aware that we have described the Matrix of the Spirit as a night. The moonlight, then, offers either a true picture seen in shadow or chimera and falsity. The power of falsity is deep as is the power to discern truth from shadow. The shadow of hidden things is an infinite depth in which is stored the power of the One Infinite Creator.

The adept, then, is working with the power of hidden things illuminated by that which can be false or true. To embrace falsity, to know it, to seek it, and to use it gives a power that is most great. This is the nature of the power of your visitor and may shed some light upon the power of one who seeks in order to serve others as well, for the missteps in the night are oh! so easy.

https://www.lawofone.info/s/80#8

[Asolsutsesvyl]

Guess I'm confounded by how people can equate successfully navigating a "spiritual test" to [...] the path of least resistance, physically, mentally and emotionally.

Sometimes interpreting context is more important than interpreting facts.

The opposite, "more difficult", does not always mean "more good". Sometimes people are simply given a choice of either going out of their way to go on a journey with no benefit and possibly damaging consequences, or not doing so. I think it can be compared to the scams that arrive in many email inboxes; for a great many, the path of least resistance and passing the test is to ignore and delete them, while a smaller portion choose to follow the instructions instead and plunge in.

Most people who share memes and links about things supposedly found in the vaccines, or other stories about dangers, are not the originators of the claims, don't plaster them all over the web, and are basically decent in their intent. However, the creators and top spreaders of most of it basically seem to be full-blown pathological liars. They not only simply don't care if one of their messages is false, and the next moment cook up another thing, and another thing, ignoring all criticism of flaws found, but glibly brush aside all concerns about possible harm resulting from misleading people with things they just made up out of thin air, and work to spread as much FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) in as short a time as possible. Volume and reach is key. It's really very similar to commercial spam, in a way, and the absurdity and tragedy is that people polarize in opposition to one another over that kind of stuff.

I don't think the top originators of these memes and stories are fear-driven, they are instead driven by what generally drives the most brazen and unscrupulous influencers. The fear-driven segment is the most loyal audience, fear bringing greater receptivity to the messages and greater eagerness to pass them on.

The problem with the typical believer who shares a few messages is basically the same as with someone who forwards spam they receive and so spread it a bit further. The main harm people do is when they reach others and make them the equivalent of the impoverished suckers as a result. But most who reach a person or two and win them over to the spammy cause do far less harm than the most productive brains up the chain of influence.

I also have in mind patterns in messages as the key to spotting the overall problem with the type of message and source (just as with spam), but I'll leave that to any further discussion if of interest.

[zedro]

Just to clarify, I am not advocating for or against vax for anyone in general, I never have, although people seem to have problems discerning that through their projections. My decision has always been from "internal" guidance and foreknowledge of a massive imminent catalyst/crisis,  where I was warned "family and friends will become enemies", in fact my decision was made before the vaccinations were even conceptualized and reinforced by the higher guidance (and no I'm not anti-vax, that is a generalized narrative projected by negative control mechanisms). My spiritual path and work is inherently/consequently tied to all of this, I have been prepared for it, otherwise you would not have known me at all, instead indulging in a rage fest with no spiritual principals to be found. While I was prepared to accept detachment from potential undesirable outcomes (which are manifesting in spades right now), the situation does spike my interest in how people discern their own positions, hence why I bother engaging at all.

Those who bring up what mainstream media vs so called conspiracy media narratives say are completely missing the point, the Ra Material has all the guidance you need in these matters, what I find interesting is how the teachings are selectivity ignored to advance one's own projections and illusions/fears, and spiritually bypassed with the concept of Love, which I rarely see as fully actualized/realized, as it's still shrouded by the Law of Confusion.

The best thing one can do is to understand that all narratives need to be discerned as they are all distorted, this logos operates on half-truths in order to maintain spiritual testing and karmic balance (or rather, the "spiritual war" that this (sub)logos was founded on). The only thing I offer is challenges to one's own discernment, one's personal choices are transient to me and are less interesting than how you got there. Again, context is everything. Also feel free to ignore and not engage, this is what I do when I feel I cannot operate with satisfactory wisdom (if it was just a matter of love, there would be no need to be here at all).

As far as love and wisdom being different dimensions, don't forget the 3rd ray and 5th ray are tied together, there is a reason for this, and it's very important. When it comes to 4th ray, no action is needed at all, getting jabbed or not (among other actions) does not factor in at all, this is an important concept to explore if not understood, although Ra pretty much drilled this one in relentlessly, yet it seems to be the most forgotten/ignored/misunderstood. 

This is why I feel that those who interpret others who choose 'stillness' as being fearful (and therefore manipulated by negative action by proxy) is incredibly misaligned with the spiritual teachings. The problem at hand is merely an illusion at the higher spiritual level. But for myself, there are consequences to the body which is a vessel for the service I specifically incarnated for, and that is what people need to discern for themselves individually, as consequences (body, mind and spirit) will vary according to their own spiritual needs and service to others. There is no 'one size fits all' solution, that simply does not exist anywhere in this realm. It should be obvious what conforming to a specific narrow narrative really is.

[zedro]

So anyone who believes that the vaccine may harm them is acting out of fear, but those who believe that the vaccine is 'salvation' from harm is acting out of love?

No, like I said the mainstream narrative is fear-based as well. That is how they justify the control measures, because they fear the virus and the unvaccinated.

How is this not a projection of one's own fears onto others who have the counter view for their own health?

I do not share their fear of the virus or of the unvaccinated. As I do not share the fear of vaccination from the anti-vaccination movement.

This denies people their own inner guidance by assuming they are purely acting from outside (fear based) influence, it's interesting that you do not give the same logical path that you assign yourself.

As everyone else, I have indeed my own views about anything and everything. I have my own judgement which I use only towards making my own personal decisions.

But what makes you believe this denies anyone else their own personal views? I do not impose my judgment calls onto others.

The majority of information shared in this thread against vaccination is fear-based as far as I can discern. I know some people are not getting vaccinated simply because they do not believe they need it or maybe because it is too strongly attached to big pharma and stuff like that. Their reasons for not getting vaccinated are not necessarily fear-based. I am making that comment about the information that is shared in this thread against vaccination (the narrative). That information is fear-based in my opinion.

Again you assign yourself the benefit of seeing the Grey areas, and not others who disagree. How many people have to make the statement that the vax/virus is an individually based catalyst with varying individuated consequences, how is that not seeing the spectrum?

You asked the question: "I'm curious to whom still supports this and thinks this is all rational and for the "greater good"".

So I'm just opening a window into my thought processes in order to answer that question and in case anyone else is interested. It is also in order for readers to be aware that not everyone is against vaccination in these forums.

But while I do assign myself that benefit of having a wide point of view, why would you believe I am in any way denying the same of others?

It's interesting that one can realize the source and implementation of a technology can be born from a desire to control, yet somehow not consider that energetic attachment doesn't work itself into the product itself. Because what I observe is the direct manifestation of that.

Pardon me if I misunderstood your meaning here, but I do not believe vaccines are born from a desire to control.

And it seems unfathomable how you cannot discern where the Love is, because you default (ironically) to a black or white supposition: vaccination saves and so is love, not getting vaccinated harms and so is fear. Take away that narrative you subscribe to, and it becomes apparent that everyone is acting out of love for others and themselves, unless one believes in controlling others in either circumstance.

It seems you are trying to put words into my mouth. I do not believe that not getting vaccinated harms anyone in anyway whatsoever. If you have a headache and do not take Acetaminophen to alleviate it, why would that harm anyone else? I see vaccination in the same light. Not taking it is not going to harm anyone.

I am aware that Love is behind all of our actions. I do see that. Yet it does not mean I can see the whole path Love takes for everyone. For example, in the instance of someone being tortured to death, I might not be able to see what pathways Love is taking. Maybe the victim loves the torturer so much that he agreed to this before the incarnation just so the torturer could be able to feel the pleasure of torturing someone. Only Love is acting here, Love of self at the expense of others and love of others up to the ultimate sacrifice.

All I am saying is that all catalysts, big or small, are fabricated by the Universe in order to move us. What will be the motivations behind our movement? I did mention my belief that those sharing the information against vaccination are doing this out of Love for others and in order to protect others from what they believe is a grave threat.

We are all "misguided" to some extent, but that does not matter much. Our guidance is not guiding us directly toward Truth per se, it is only guiding us towards the roads we need to travel in order to learn what we came here to learn. So I am not worried one way or another. All is well. We are all going to end up within Truth whatever roads we traveled.

I'll just leave this tangled mess as is. From my point of view, there is an inconsistency in thought that needs examination as what I've claimed and observed directly comes from you, both from now and the past. I see something that you aren't (again, not related to vax or not, but in the contextual relationship with it, the meta meaning if you will) which doesn't mean I'm/Your right or wrong, but there is a mismatch, imprecision, or something that's being ignored.

What is interesting is my post on the animal vaccination was not directed at anyone in particular, but you did appear in my minds eye for some reason when I wrote the line below. It's funny/syncronistic that you felt the need to engage.

This is getting more out of control everyday, I'm curious to whom still supports this and thinks this is all rational and for the "greater good"....

I do... but I no longer believe that I can reach this far down into the rabbit hole in order to have a real discussion on that subject. So I figured the only sensible thing to do is to wait about 3 years and see if the world of conspirations has moved to other more interesting pastures by then.

There are no 'real discussions' in these material matters, just external narratives to discern.