what is the "density" exactly means?

[unity100]

I would think the opposite: they would start out disoriented, because most of the initial access would be the 3rd-density societal mind, then gradually form a 4d Social Memory Complex, as more and more of that mind could be accessed.

is it. or already a noticeable distortion for 4d thought patterns have been established in societal mind already ? with all the hippie, new age concepts and stuff, a noticeable number of which have taken their place in daily life (at least in appearance) ?

but they are referencing all of their memory from their respective 3D lives which had learned enough of the "lessons of love" (or better - lessons of the logos) to make sufficiently informed choices. As more and more join the 4D Social Memory Complex, all that info becomes shared.

this is a detailed matter. the conscious mind will be reset during incarnation. however, connections to roots of mind are un-severable. assuming the increasingly new 4d incarnates will be incarnating in a state of less and less veil, they will be able to tap their past increasingly by delving into subconscious then. spiritual biases however, probably are not going to be overridden, as they are hardest to change. so indeed, in a sense, if the native graduates are low in proportion to the newcomers, a lot of the children of other logoi will be shaping the 4d society. this is even on top of the fact that only 2 out of 7 billion or so of the souls on earth are actually from earth, and graduates from earth will probably actually contain a lot of non native graduates already.

I was simply saying that formation of a social memory complex will not begin for many millions of years in 4D, and as such, discussing how it will interact with 3rd density complex of any type is moot.

that is debatable. the nature of 4d vibration, will be there in short notice. physical vibrations like this are not things that can be prevented. the only difference in our situation is that, the time/space of the planet will be allowed to continue without having to fully get immersed in 4d for some time. still, any entity which is being affected properly in their mind and spirit by 4d vibrations, will feel the effects of it. the bodies, will feel the effects of that. its not something that can be avoide.

so, for entities who are 4d receptive, it will indeed be a 4d situation in mind, body, spirit.

thus, the 4d phenomenon wont be something that can be avoided or prevented, for these. therefore we can say that if, there are people who will be affected by 4d vibrations in mind/body/spirit, then they would also be affected by society complex phenomenon.

it is acceptable to say that at the minimum, the 4d complex will begin to form in earnest, once vibrations settle in.

actually it is quite easy to say that it began forming since some time, since there had been people who were receptive to 4d vibrations.

...................................

the main question still remains ; what differentiates the nature of dimensionality/density in physical space in between 3rd and 4th. this determines whether these two vibrations directly interact, and that determines any kind of dimension shift/ascension possibility is there, or not.

[zenmaster]

We were talking about the 4D graduates. Again, initially the dual-activated people will be accessing 3rd-density societal mind - being mostly wanderers, esp initially, they will be confused due to coming from different logos. There will be a lot of odd people around - like L.A.

Where do/did you get the idea that most dual activated mbsc are wanderers?

Well, harvest is not yet, but the dual-activated entity influx had started since maybe 70's and 80's. During the chaneling period, there were ~35,000 dual-activated entities. Reasonably, there are hundreds of thousands now.

Once the 3rd density veil thins enough, there can be no confusion among wanderers, for being aware/conscious will remove any possibility of confusion or misunderstanding, even if such may be possible for those of 4th density graduation.

More specifically, once the 3rd density veil thins enough, there can be no confusion for those with 4d bodies, which are the dual-activated entities.

I don't see why the emphasis on 3D being 15 million years gone.

I was simply saying that formation of a social memory complex will not begin for many millions of years in 4D, and as such, discussing how it will interact with 3rd density complex of any type is moot.

I see. I did not mean to imply that a 4D SMC interacts with 3D complex at all. I believe I said that the 3D complex goes away will yellow ray going into potentiation.Then, gradually, the 4D SMC is formed. Not sure how that contradicts anything.

---

I would think the opposite: they would start out disoriented, because most of the initial access would be the 3rd-density societal mind, then gradually form a 4d Social Memory Complex, as more and more of that mind could be accessed.

is it. or already a noticeable distortion for 4d thought patterns have been established in societal mind already ? with all the hippie, new age concepts and stuff, a noticeable number of which have taken their place in daily life (at least in appearance) ?

Right, 4d wanderers have been here for a long time - and also from all over the local star systems, presumably. But what we may see of that 4d bias is completely filtered through the veil. More of the spiritual portion of beingness. Without veil, there's more access to that bias (due to more of the personality being available) and that of the mind-portion which holds actual experiences such as ethical principals, cultural values, philosophy, and skills. Who knows, maybe they start having dreams and revelations about how, on their native 3rd density planets, they had 'free' energy or what not.

but they are referencing all of their memory from their respective 3D lives which had learned enough of the "lessons of love" (or better - lessons of the logos) to make sufficiently informed choices. As more and more join the 4D Social Memory Complex, all that info becomes shared.

this is a detailed matter. the conscious mind will be reset during incarnation. however, connections to roots of mind are un-severable. assuming the increasingly new 4d incarnates will be incarnating in a state of less and less veil, they will be able to tap their past increasingly by delving into subconscious then. spiritual biases however, probably are not going to be overridden, as they are hardest to change. so indeed, in a sense, if the native graduates are low in proportion to the newcomers, a lot of the children of other logoi will be shaping the 4d society. this is even on top of the fact that only 2 out of 7 billion or so of the souls on earth are actually from earth, and graduates from earth will probably actually contain a lot of non native graduates already.

This is very similar to how I'm imagining the situation. A lot of native graduates, but due to the lack of polarization, that amount would be miniscule compared to the wanderers. I'm imagining another cultural shift, much bigger than hippy movement, when a critical mass of of the 'new breed' (now on their home planet) start creating their society.

the main question still remains ; what differentiates the nature of dimensionality/density in physical space in between 3rd and 4th. this determines whether these two vibrations directly interact, and that determines any kind of dimension shift/ascension possibility is there, or not.

Lacking access to intelligent infinity, I don't think nature would be able to cooperate with the will of the 3D entity if it wanted a new body without the natural processes being involved.

[unity100]

Well, harvest is not yet, but the dual-activated entity influx had started since maybe 70's and 80's. During the chaneling period, there were ~35,000 dual-activated entities. Reasonably, there are hundreds of thousands now.

where did you get that number ? and the 70-80 date ?

Lacking access to intelligent infinity, I don't think nature would be able to cooperate with the will of the 3D entity if it wanted a new body without the natural processes being involved.

lack of veil does not provide access to intelligent infinity, from what i know.

but actually the deal is, this is not a matter of having access to intelligent infinity, or not.

there are physical vibrations of photon, in green spectrum. planet will be fully aligned to that, in a short time. this is something inevitable, it will affect any physical material.

then, there will be the time/space consideration. even if the 3d societal mind is able to continue for some time in time/space, without having to come to the real time/space continuum (as quo tells us) - therefore being able to keep the biases and mindset for some time - the 4d enabled entities probably will be able to get affected and interact with 4d's time/space properties.

this basically makes these entities 4d entities, in proportion to the activation level of their body.

the only requirement would be that these entities freed their mind from biases of 3d societal mind.

then there comes the question of density difference. will or will not this entity be able to live in a totally different 'dimension', which will be untouchable/nonphysical to 3d ...

[Peregrinus]

where did you get that number ? and the 70-80 date ?

Q'uo stated that the harmonic convergence of Aug 16/17 1987 (dependent upon location on Gaia) was when duel activated mbsc began incarnating here.

I believe the 35k number ZenM speaks of was those harvestable 1981-1984. All those born after the harmonic convergence are ascendable and duel activated, either of Earth, or from elsewhere and requiring a 4D planet.

then there comes the question of density difference. will or will not this entity be able to live in a totally different 'dimension', which will be untouchable/nonphysical to 3d ...

As I believe Ra stated, it is possible for these to coexist, but due to the range of differences, the 3D mbsc finds the 4D mbsc to be quite disconcerting. it is for this reason that these two densities have not been mixed until the fourth density mbsc have learned to 'shield' themselves and their manifestations from view of 3D mbsc.

63.8 Ra: I am Ra. ... As the green-ray cycle or the density of love and understanding begins to take shape the yellow-ray plane or Earth which you now enjoy in your dance will cease to be inhabited for some period of your space/time as the space/time necessary for fourth-density entities to learn their ability to shield their density from that of third is learned. After this period there will come a time when third-density may again cycle on the yellow-ray sphere.

Meanwhile there is another sphere, congruent to a great extent with yellow ray, forming. This fourth-density sphere coexists with first, second, and third. It is of a denser nature due to the rotational core atomic aspects of its material. We have discussed this subject with you.

The fourth-density entities which incarnate at this space/time are fourth-density in the view of experience but are incarnating in less dense vehicles due to desire to experience and aid in the birth of fourth-density upon this plane.

Yes I know the quote above does not specifically answer your question. I am searching Ra/Q'uo for the specific answer you seek.

[unity100]

where did you get that number ? and the 70-80 date ?

Q'uo stated that the harmonic convergence of Aug 16/17 1987 (dependent upon location on Gaia) was when duel activated mbsc began incarnating here.

I believe the 35k number ZenM speaks of was those harvestable 1981-1984. All those born after the harmonic convergence are ascendable and duel activated, either of Earth, or from elsewhere and requiring a 4D planet.

seems incorrect.

http://lawofone.info/results.php?session...=1&ss=1#12

35 k number seems to be the number circa July 18, 1981. therefore, the 1987 date for dual activated incarnation date, does not hold. if there are 35,000~ entities at july 18 1981, and a recent phenomenon by then, it cant be a 1987 date for the incarnations to start.

recent is a word that is not defined of course. whether just a few years ago, or a few decades, is anyone's guess. the concept is, however, the first 35,000 incarnates in dual activated bodies have now reached at least an age of 30 years, as of this moment. with more following.

As I believe Ra stated, it is possible for these to coexist, but due to the range of differences, the 3D mbsc finds the 4D mbsc to be quite disconcerting. it is for this reason that these two densities have not been mixed until the fourth density mbsc have learned to 'shield' themselves and their manifestations from view of 3D mbsc.

the question is in that shielding concept itself - how does that shielding happen - whether by just making the 4d locations and settlements invisible, or, it is actually so that the 4d vibration locality is a place that is not placed in the same space/time continuum like some spiritual literature suggests. (ie 4d being a different dimension so that the both cannot touch each other in material).

es I know the quote above does not specifically answer your question. I am searching Ra/Q'uo for the specific answer you seek.

yes there wasnt a direct info on this. we will have to combine various pieces and gleam the whole.

This fourth-density sphere coexists with first, second, and third.

this bit now is an interesting bit. but unhelpful.

[Peregrinus]

Q'uo sessions which may be helpful.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is...6_0507.pdf

Concerning the basic setup of the transition, there is a moment of transition in terms of the planet itself. That moment of transition is at some point near to the winter solstice of 2012. It is fairly set—cut and dried, as this instrument would say.

The one known as Jim was saying that in The Ra Material, the period of transition was suggested to be perhaps between 100 and 700 of your years. The reason it is so approximated is that we do not know who shall inspire whom with love and with the daring to make courageous choices at difficult moments.

This part is important to your seeking:

Once third density winds down on planet Earth, it shall be inactive for a time. This is due to the need of new fourth-density entities to learn the ways of invisibility. There is no desire in fourth-density entities to disturb or surprise third-density entities. If fourth density were visible to third density, you would find yourself in a charming but very crowded universe made up of elementals, nature spirits and devas, totems, fictional entities who have gained inner-planes life because of the continued thoughts of many and so forth.

It would be an enchanting and diverse experience but it would be too much for you to bear. You are veiled from fourth density and all other densities that would give you these experiences because you are here in third density to discover who you are—that is, an ethical being—and to decide what you want to do with that troublesome consciousness that you have found.

Regarding the harmonic convergence:
http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0927.aspx

The harvest has already begun. It began in your year 1987 in that period called “Harmonic Convergence”. Entities began being harvested when they died from the physical at that time. All were offered the steps of light. Many of those you now call “Indigo Children” are those who have graduated from Planet Earth in the positive sense, have now gone on to acquaint themselves with their new fourth-density homes and have asked for permission to return to third density as wanderers.

[zenmaster]

I believe the 35k number ZenM speaks of was those harvestable 1981-1984.

Not quite. That is the population count of wanderers that were here by 1981 that had already been harvested from other planets. They then came to earth to incarnate in dual-activated bodies.

The 4D earth harvest is only just starting now. Those few 4D-earth-harvestable still have to die, come back (as babies), then mature...

[Peregrinus]

The 4D earth harvest is only just starting now. Those few 4D-earth-harvestable still have to die, come back (as babies), then mature...

Not according to Q'uo.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0927.aspx

The harvest has already begun. It began in your year 1987

[zenmaster]

The 4D earth harvest is only just starting now. Those few 4D-earth-harvestable still have to die, come back (as babies), then mature...

Not according to Q'uo.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0927.aspx

The harvest has already begun. It began in your year 1987

Yeah, the confusion is that Q'uo = Carla often. Given a choice between the two, I prefer the basic integrity of the Ra material.

1/24/81:
"6.17 Questioner: Is this inconvenience imminent within a few years?

Ra: I am Ra. This inconvenience, or disharmonious vibratory complex, has begun several of your years in the past. It shall continue unabated for a period of approximately 30, thirty, of your years."

"6.18 Questioner: After this period of thirty years I am assuming that this will be a fourth-density planet. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is so."

"6.19 Questioner: Is it possible to estimate what percent of the present population will inhabit the fourth-density planet?

Ra: The harvesting is not yet, thus, estimation is meaningless."

2/3/81:
"17.29 Questioner: Am I to understand that the harvest is to occur in the year 2011, or will it be spread out?

Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest."

8/8/81:
"65.11 Questioner: This entire scenario for the next twenty years seems to be aimed at producing an increase in seeking and an increase in the awareness of the natural creation, but also a terrific amount of confusion. Was it the pre-incarnative objective of many of the Wanderers to attempt to reduce this confusion?

Ra: I am Ra. It was the aim of Wanderers to serve the entities of this planet in whatever way was requested and it was also the aim of Wanderers that their vibratory patterns might lighten the planetary vibration as a whole, thus ameliorating the effects of planetary disharmony and palliating any results of this disharmony.

Specific intentions such as aiding in a situation not yet manifest are not the aim of Wanderers. Light and love go where they are sought and needed, and their direction is not planned aforetimes."

[zenmaster]

Lacking access to intelligent infinity, I don't think nature would be able to cooperate with the will of the 3D entity if it wanted a new body without the natural processes being involved.

lack of veil does not provide access to intelligent infinity, from what i know.

Was referring to the development of a compatible 4d body without the usual death/rebirth. Nothing to do with veil.

but actually the deal is, this is not a matter of having access to intelligent infinity, or not.

there are physical vibrations of photon, in green spectrum. planet will be fully aligned to that, in a short time. this is something inevitable, it will affect any physical material.

I don't think so. There is nothing I've read that suggests this to me. Should not affect physicality any more than 2D prana affects a 1D rock, for example. Remember there are 4 different local (space/time) physical bodies now. The body physicality we can see and measure is 1D, and the body most of us inhabit and experience is 3D.

then there comes the question of density difference. will or will not this entity be able to live in a totally different 'dimension', which will be untouchable/nonphysical to 3d ...

The body is a 'creature of the mind'. With 4D, apparently the material of the body, that is the 4D local (space/time) material, may be formed both naturally (in the manner of 2D bodies) and potentially under conscious control of 4D mind.

[unity100]

I don't think so. There is nothing I've read that suggests this to me. Should not affect physicality any more than 2D prana affects a 1D rock, for example. Remember there are 4 different local (space/time) physical bodies now. The body physicality we can see and measure is 1D, and the body most of us inhabit and experience is 3D.

prana, the upward flowing energies of creation are not relevant to the core vibration of the photon.

but more importantly, i think there is a complication in your approach - we dont have 4 bodies now; ra says that what body we have, is the 3rd ray body in activation. all the other bodies, including the blue and indigo ones, are in potentiation. (inactive). so basically, the physical body we have, in all its physicality, is 3rd body.

The body is a 'creature of the mind'. With 4D, apparently the material of the body, that is the 4D local (space/time) material, may be formed both naturally (in the manner of 2D bodies) and potentially under conscious control of 4D mind.

so will that body be physically touchable by 3d material in its own core vibration ...

[zenmaster]

I don't think so. There is nothing I've read that suggests this to me. Should not affect physicality any more than 2D prana affects a 1D rock, for example. Remember there are 4 different local (space/time) physical bodies now. The body physicality we can see and measure is 1D, and the body most of us inhabit and experience is 3D.

prana, the upward flowing energies of creation are not relevant to the core vibration of the photon.

It could be that prana is not specific to a core vibration, but I'm not sure how it could be said that it's not relevant. I suppose you could replace the 2nd density local-vibrational energy - 'etheric' energy.

but more importantly, i think there is a complication in your approach - we dont have 4 bodies now; ra says that what body we have, is the 3rd ray body in activation. all the other bodies, including the blue and indigo ones, are in potentiation. (inactive). so basically, the physical body we have, in all its physicality, is 3rd body.

That is correct. Did I suggest otherwise?

The body is a 'creature of the mind'. With 4D, apparently the material of the body, that is the 4D local (space/time) material, may be formed both naturally (in the manner of 2D bodies) and potentially under conscious control of 4D mind.

so will that body be physically touchable by 3d material in its own core vibration ...

OK, you raise a good point. (I understand there is an outstanding question.)

'core vibration' means the photon is based (or intelligently controlled) at a certain discrete level. Each successive layer, transcends but includes the prior layer (subsumes). So the photon can be thought to have an embedded motion.

For 3D, the photon control is 3 levels deep. This photon has the potential freedom to move 'down' to 1D (and to 2D), if the characteristics of the motion of the (vibrating) photon provide for it.

The material you see with your eyeball, and touch, may be based (have a core) at the subtle 3D level. However, that 3D-core vibrational (control centered) photon manifesting (as an atomic-aggregate constituent), in physical form, is at the 'gross' 1D level.

[unity100]

That is correct. Did I suggest otherwise?

it sounded as if you suggested the bodies were activated in order.

OK, you raise a good point. (I understand there is an outstanding question.)

'core vibration' means the photon is based (or intelligently controlled) at a certain discrete level. Each successive layer, transcends but includes the prior layer (subsumes). So the photon can be thought to have an embedded motion.

For 3D, the photon control is 3 levels deep. This photon has the potential freedom to move 'down' to 1D (and to 2D), if the characteristics of the motion of the (vibrating) photon provide for it.

The material you see with your eyeball, and touch, may be based (have a core) at the subtle 3D level. However, that 3D-core vibrational (control centered) photon manifesting (as an atomic-aggregate constituent), in physical form, is at the 'gross' 1D level.

does not compute.

you seem to be just adding an embedded property to the vibration concept. a 'control' aspect, just like how it is customary to take time as a dimension and attach it to physicality.

[zenmaster]

That is correct. Did I suggest otherwise?

it sounded as if you suggested the bodies were activated in order.

The 4 different bodies included the dual-activated 4D body.

OK, you raise a good point. (I understand there is an outstanding question.)

'core vibration' means the photon is based (or intelligently controlled) at a certain discrete level. Each successive layer, transcends but includes the prior layer (subsumes). So the photon can be thought to have an embedded motion.

For 3D, the photon control is 3 levels deep. This photon has the potential freedom to move 'down' to 1D (and to 2D), if the characteristics of the motion of the (vibrating) photon provide for it.

The material you see with your eyeball, and touch, may be based (have a core) at the subtle 3D level. However, that 3D-core vibrational (control centered) photon manifesting (as an atomic-aggregate constituent), in physical form, is at the 'gross' 1D level.

does not compute.

you seem to be just adding an embedded property to the vibration concept. a 'control' aspect, just like how it is customary to take time as a dimension and attach it to physicality.

It's just another set of 'degrees of freedom' added for each density - 'embedded' because each density subsumes any lower. Imagine same natural datum providing a potential 'ride' for the photon from 7th to 1st densities. Larson simply has the outward progression of the universe - but here we can try expanding it to 7 densities.

If the core vibration is 3, then the emitted photon and its properties of motion dictate its ultimately manifest properties at densities 3 and/or 2 and/or 1. The 'embedded vibration' could be imagined along the lines of Nick Thomas' 'turn' concept. A potentially valid system as far as I can tell.

The 'control' is from intelligence - either by the deterministic logos (nature) or the individual will.

[unity100]

It's just another set of 'degrees of freedom' added for each density - 'embedded' because each density subsumes any lower. Imagine same natural datum providing a potential 'ride' for the photon from 7th to 1st densities. Larson simply has the outward progression of the universe - but here we can try expanding it to 7 densities.

If the core vibration is 3, then the emitted photon and its properties of motion dictate its ultimately manifest properties at densities 3 and/or 2 and/or 1. The 'embedded vibration' could be imagined along the lines of Nick Thomas' 'turn' concept. A potentially valid system as far as I can tell.

The 'control' is from intelligence - either by the deterministic logos (nature) or the individual will.

i understand your freedom/conscious control angle approaching this thing. however, i dont think that it is a mechanic relevant to the interaction in between 4d vibrating matter and 3d vibrating matter. basically, you are saying that, the 3d vibrating matter and 4d vibrating matter can collide, but, 4d vibrating matter is more controllable by the 4d vibrating conscious entity ?

[zenmaster]

i understand your freedom/conscious control angle approaching this thing. however, i dont think that it is a mechanic relevant to the interaction in between 4d vibrating matter and 3d vibrating matter. basically, you are saying that, the 3d vibrating matter and 4d vibrating matter can collide, but, 4d vibrating matter is more controllable by the 4d vibrating conscious entity ?

I was trying to emphasize that the origins are at different levels. In a totally natural and calm environment (i.e. no supernova, for example), the logos would place, and grow 4D material in a compatible manner with 3D material. So there is no material 'collision' eventuality, unless it is due to some entity's will or action.

Unharvested 3D has no freedom to move body or mind in 4D, unless intelligent infinity is accessed. Therefore, if there is a collision, it will not be due to the action or will of a 4D entity or of the logos.

[unity100]

so youre basically saying that the 3d and 4d vibrating material should not collide under normal circumstances. this, basically is a separate dimensionality approach then .... is it ?

[zenmaster]

so youre basically saying that the 3d and 4d vibrating material should not collide under normal circumstances. this, basically is a separate dimensionality approach then .... is it ?

Yes.

[unity100]

my problem is, we dont have anything to conclude that noncolliding approach. the control attachment, may be a valid attachment. but, it doesnt explain or justify the noncolliding approach.

[zenmaster]

my problem is, we dont have anything to conclude that noncolliding approach. the control attachment, may be a valid attachment. but, it doesnt explain or justify the noncolliding approach.

There are certainly problems. Obviously, I'm not prepared to give a full philosophical treatment, to say nothing about a working physical theory that may or may not satisfy doubts. I personally know a few people that are capable of providing a better explanation (in practical, mechanical terms), but I doubt you will see such information soon. Not sure if this review helps, but:
. The levels of control theory/speculation allows for collision (or any type of interaction).
. We know that 3d and 4d can have complete material/local (space/time) integration and compatibility (no collision) via natural processes. This is in the form of the dual-activated entity (body and mind) and the body and mind layer of the planet.
. 3d and 4d material can only have the potential to collide if they are in proximity. However, only yellow ray 'matrix' allows for the initial manifestation of 3d (natural process of birth). Therefore, a 3d entity can only be in a total 4d environment if the 3d entity lives (long enough) through the transition to 4d (i.e. genetic engineering)
. Because natural processes always produce compatible 3d and 4d manifestation, and because 3d cannot manifest 4d material, any collision would be the result of a 4d's entity's will. Apparently early 4D don't understand how their bodies are manifested, but can learn to control this manifestation (at least at 3d level) through their volition. This 4D learning apparently takes a long time.
. There is a thread on another forum about a 3d entity and 4d entity interacting. the 4d entity knows that if she were manifest in her 4d body before the 3d entity, it would basically destroy the 3d entity (due to collision).

[unity100]

There is a thread on another forum about a 3d entity and 4d entity interacting. the 4d entity knows that if she were manifest in her 4d body before the 3d entity, it would basically destroy the 3d entity (due to collision).

firstly, that is way too far fetched. first, ra describes the 4d material as the material that appears when ectoplasm is produced in a seance. in no such seance, people have died due to interaction with ectoplasm, or any product that was created in seance that caused ectoplasm's creation.

second, we are told that the 3d entity would find 4d environments 'very uncomfortable'. not lethal. 4d vibrations are here since 1937, and strengthening. its about to settle this year or so. people are not dropping like flies. one could say that there may not be enough concentration of 4d vibration to cause this, however, in spiritual get-togethers, workshops etc in amiable conditions (positive-feel countryside etc), noticeable energy is produced, and yet, its not causing anyone to die or get crippled, if they are not vibrating in that spectrum. at most, people are finding it very discomfortable and 'weird' or 'eerie', if they are not compatible.

Because natural processes always produce compatible 3d and 4d manifestation, and because 3d cannot manifest 4d material, any collision would be the result of a 4d's entity's will. Apparently early 4D don't understand how their bodies are manifested, but can learn to control this manifestation (at least at 3d level) through their volition. This 4D learning apparently takes a long time.

3d entity can manifest ectoplasm, the 4d material, as we are told by Ra. so, a 3d body incarnation is capable of manifesting 4d material.

the control mechanism might be there. however, it may also be natural result of a more fluid vibration - if you just consider the consciousness of an entity as vibration (since everything is actually) it would be just natural for a vibration generator to affect vibrations around it.

however, control mechanism doesnt provide for non collusion. controllable doesnt imply noncollideable. in the end, its something that vibrates in the green spectrum, and the other, is in yellow spectrum. if, there had been any aspect to it, there had to be similar differentiations in between 1 and 2d and 2 and 3d, in changing levels.

yet, 1, 2, 3d exist materially in the same location.

the 'spheres' however different. 3d entities do not live with 2d entities, with a few exceptions. 3d sphere and its vibrations are therefore concentrated and manifested where 3d entities are concentrated with vibrations.

now, if we move from here, we can easily understand the 'green and yellow spheres overlap because there are 3-4d entities' concept. currently, there are no different 'spheres', aka concentrations of entities in between 3 and 4d. all entities, 4d activated or not, live together in 3d environments. all the 4d thoughts, feelings going about and 3d thoughts feelings going about fly around in the same time/space. moreover, they interact with each other. it becomes hard for 4d entities to live in 3d environments, which fees very 'heavy' and inducing 'wear and tear' increasingly in ways they cannot precisely explain (judging from what people convey), and 3d entities are rather annoyed by 4d entities due to myriad of reasons.

this, makes the two spheres overlap... if, we separate 4d entities and they start living in separate places than 3d sphere, then there will occur two different spheres, with 4d feelings and vibrations concentrating in different sections of planet, and 3d vibrations again in different sections. vibration concentration would make the 4d 'sphere' more fluid, more easy to be affected by 4d vibrations hence more 'controllable' as you put it. and 'lighter'. 3d vibrations, would stay 3d.

and there would indeed be a need for 4d entities to be able to learn and start hiding themselves from 3d entities.

see, up till this very point, there is nothing suggesting the possibility of different dimensionality.

[zenmaster]

ra describes the 4d material as the material that appears when ectoplasm is produced in a seance.

Ra said the 4d body may be seen by 3d when ectoplasm is produced (in a seance).

second, we are told that the 3d entity would find 4d environments 'very uncomfortable'. not lethal. 4d vibrations are here since 1937, and strengthening. its about to settle this year or so. people are not dropping like flies. one could say that there may not be enough concentration of 4d vibration to cause this, however, in spiritual get-togethers, workshops etc in amiable conditions (positive-feel countryside etc), noticeable energy is produced, and yet, its not causing anyone to die or get crippled, if they are not vibrating in that spectrum. at most, people are finding it very discomfortable and 'weird' or 'eerie', if they are not compatible.

As I said a few times before, in natural conditions 3d and 4d are compatible.

3d entity can manifest ectoplasm, the 4d material, as we are told by Ra.

But we are not told by Ra that ectoplasm is 4d material. It's something that a 4d entity may use to manifest a body in 3d.

the 'spheres' however different. 3d entities do not live with 2d entities, with a few exceptions. 3d sphere and its vibrations are therefore concentrated and manifested where 3d entities are concentrated with vibrations.

now, if we move from here, we can easily understand the 'green and yellow spheres overlap because there are 3-4d entities' concept. currently, there are no different 'spheres', aka concentrations of entities in between 3 and 4d. all entities, 4d activated or not, live together in 3d environments. all the 4d thoughts, feelings going about and 3d thoughts feelings going about fly around in the same time/space.

The sphere is the energy matrix sustained by the earth itself and modified by inhabitants. It exists in both space/time (body/local/material) and time/space (mind/nonlocal/metaphysical). In 3d, the time/space sphere is the concept of the racial memory, morphic field, collective conscious or unconscious, or Noosphere, for example. presumably, the 4d time/space sphere, which has been completed for many years, are where 4d thoughts, memories, and feelings are (morphically) sustained.

The time/space spheres are nonlocal, so distance would not affect individual access. In QM terms, the body is correlated to the 3d and/or 4d time/space sphere at birth.

this, makes the two spheres overlap... if, we separate 4d entities and they start living in separate places than 3d sphere, then there will occur two different spheres, with 4d feelings and vibrations concentrating in different sections of planet, and 3d vibrations again in different sections.

The planet itself creates the entire sphere. The sphere may then be modified by individual or collective consciousness of the same density of that sphere. Right now the 'mind' sphere of 4d already exists in totality.

vibration concentration would make the 4d 'sphere' more fluid, more easy to be affected by 4d vibrations hence more 'controllable' as you put it. and 'lighter'. 3d vibrations, would stay 3d.

Use of will affects the sphere - but the sphere itself is like a nurturing support system and repository for intelligence and memory.

[unity100]

Ra said the 4d body may be seen by 3d when ectoplasm is produced (in a seance).

i didnt want to take it that far, but yes. 4d body may be seen in 3d when ectoplasm is produced. in such seances as described, the entities which were manifesting in those 4d material-shaped bodies have interacted with the seance participants, at least we are told as such. there has been no deaths or dysfunctions reported in any of these seances, due to interaction of a 4d body.

But we are not told by Ra that ectoplasm is 4d material. It's something that a 4d entity may use to manifest a body in 3d.

that we dont know. however, i am keeping it low, and assuming that the ectoplasm, which is something that vanishes after the seance, is something related to 4d. in the end, its being produced at the same time with the beholding of 4d body.

[zenmaster]

Practical info pertaining to the subject of compatibility/incompatibility of 3d body vs 4d body:

She [4d being] said she didn't know how to manifest physically fully because it's not an easy thing to do; to come down through the levels to where she could shake my hand. She told me in the past some of her people a very long time ago would come to the earth and they would descend to our level and become whole physical beings with limited psychic abilities like us but that alot of them did not know how to go back up into their normal form of being (which is semi-physical). She said that if she came as a Semi-physical person and stayed for more than a day that her aura would probably kill me in no time. Going physical also makes their minds shrink she said.

She explained that there is a trigger that is in a human being that is supposed to protect the soul in case there is a sudden tragic accident. She said it works in both directions of pain or pleasure but it in some cases can be tripped by a strong external psychic presence. If the trigger is a pain one it could cause the interconnect to disconnect (read: what attaches our non-physical to our physical...like a chakra sub-system) and that would result in death. If it is tripped but not completely it causes unconsciousness.

She said it was also able to be tripped in incredible pleasure (i wouldn't know lol). She said if she came as she was then i would die in no time from her spiritual/psychic wake.

She described going down the levels and descending to my state of being as being incredibly uncomfortable. She said it was like being underwater several feet. She said if she stayed too long (varies from a day for some to maybe weeks for others.) that she would be unable to reach her semi-physical beingness again. She said this has happened before with people being stuck in our level of physicality.

Read more: http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index.c...z1AUIn5mvy

[unity100]

that piece requires confidence in that source, and abilities/honesty of the channel.

[zenmaster]

that piece requires confidence in that source, and abilities/honesty of the channel.

I have it, for one due to both interaction with the source, and first-hand experience. But there is no channel. The 'advisor', and the psychic abilities are not fabricated.

[unity100]

however naturally, i cant have that confidence.

moreover, a 4d entity, is an entity who is learning the ways of love, not even wisdom. 4d is not a density in which one would learn the intricacies of light, as in the light part of light/love, the knowledge.

[zenmaster]

however naturally, i cant have that confidence.

I can relate.

moreover, a 4d entity, is an entity who is learning the ways of love, not even wisdom. 4d is not a density in which one would learn the intricacies of light, as in the light part of light/love, the knowledge.

True. But considering all info has already existed, that means little. If part of the point is to learn, I've learned a great deal from 3d.